For those who live in normally milder areas and who use their outside tap for car washing etc, please do remember to turn it off and/or lag it if the temperatures are to drop as predicted.
When we lived 1000 ft above sea level in Scotland, the outside tap was often the root cause of burst pipes for those who forgot to protect it. The ice forms in the pipe and quickly creeps its way back into the house.
Also, if a very hard night frost is forecast, avoid washing the car the day before unless it is to be driven prior to standing overnight. Locks and door seals can easily freeze. Stating the obvious, but this also can cause unnecessary ice patches on your drive or even the road/pavement outside. Having said that, do ensure windows/lights and plates are kept clean. A warm damp chamois over these in the morning after defrosting takes moments. Keep a roll of kitchen towel in the car for mid journey mirror/side window cleaning.
If you can not garage your car but have access to a power point/extension cable, put a small fan heater in the car on cold mornings while you have your cuppa. Saves hammering your car electrics while defrosting.
Usual advice about keeping some spare warm clothes, a little food and something to drink in the car. I tend to favour cereal bars as they keep well and you can just fairly permanently leave a couple in the glove box.
If possible, avoid leaving the front of your car facing north. Keeps the engine and in particular the radiator away from north winds and it is generally not a problem to defrost the rear window using the screen heater when ready.
|
It astounds me on these cold, frosty mornings how many people you see driving with frozen windows all round except for a letter box size scrape on the windscreen also really steamed up windows. Totally irresponsible and seems to go unchecked by the authorities.
This morning in frosty Dumfries (-3.5) was no exception.
|
|
|
For those who live in normally milder areas and who use their outside tap for car washing etc please do remember to turn it off ........
You should isolate the outside tap from the mains by closing an inside tap. Then you should open the outside tap to allow the water between the two taps to drain.
|
|
Heard on TV this morning that it was -13 in Avimore last night - I think that was the sort of headline figure that had been picked up on, but the location had been dropped.
|
|
I know tyre pressures should be tested cold, but is this cold weather too cold to test? I was hoping for an excuse to stay in the warm this morning!
|
|
|
|
"If possible, avoid leaving the front of your car facing north. Keeps the engine and in particular the radiator away from north winds"
The engine and radiator are unnaffected by wind chill factor, so it doesn't matter which way it's pointed,it will be the same as the ambient.
|
>>The engine and radiator are unnaffected by wind chill factor, so it doesn't matter
>>which way it's pointed,it will be the same as the ambient.
Written by a man who has never been to that damp place called Scotland. Brrrrrrrrrrr!
|
Quite so.
Ask any skier or climber where the hardest snow is. Always on the north facing slope. There are a number of factors at play including the warming effect of even the weakest daylight but be assured if it gets really cold you are better facing the car to the south or as near to as possible.
Long long time ago I along with a pal used to make money to fund our skiing habit by starting and towing out weekenders who had managed to get themselves stranded at Scottish ski resorts. We could almost tell which cars would fail to start in a morning. We were equipped at first with my friend's dad's old Range Rover and subsequently with my Land Rover both of which had heavy duty batteries.
|
|
|
"Written by a man who has never been to that damp place called Scotland. Brrrrrrrrrrr!"
Of course, I only live in the middle of Sweden, so know nothing about the severe, prolonged winters that you guys suffer. Ha, it got up to a heady -8 today. You can look forward to + temps in the next few days, but our cold weather has only just begun, and it will get progressively colder for the next couple of months.
But then we do use our garages for actually keeping the cars in. They're really quite good for that.
I do know one thing though, the external temperature of the engine and radiator is exactly the same whichever way the wind is blowing, and whichever way the car is pointing.
|
Oh dear, before this degenerates into one these dreadful ping pong matches which are becoming all too common on this site perhaps I may be allowed to clarify my opinion a little?
The reason I counsel such a positioning of a car which is to be left for more than a few hours in cold conditions is based not upon science but experience. Like you I have lived in cold climates and at altitude, not just in the British Isles but also in Switzerland. Whether or not a temperature difference can be measured the fact remains that cold damp air blowing directly over an engine can cause a number of problems which can be avoided if some precautions are taken. Batteries can become troublesome and electrics can become damper. The problem is actually rooted in the early stages of the process. Evening airflow which is not yet frozen can often contain moisture. particularly in the British maritime climate. Later on a cold night it freezes. If you can avoid too much of the former getting under the bonnet it helps to prevent problems.
I am so sorry if I have irritated you, that was absolutely not my intention, I was merely trying to pass on a tip to others which I have found useful.
Not really here to spar with anyone!
Bit jealous of your access to decent skiing by the way!
Happy New Year!
|
DaveN wrote: ....But then we do use our garages for actually keeping the cars in. They're really quite good for that....
If, as per the rest of DaveN's post, all temperatures are equal, and it matters not which way the car faces, why bother using a garage?
Unless, as Humph says, giving the electric bits some shelter does help with cold starts.
|
DaveN wrote: .... Unless as Humph says....
SQ
???
I think you misunderstand both DaveN and Humph.....
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 31/12/2008 at 01:04
|
|
|
......... why bother using a garage?
Not only does it protect the car from the elements, but equally importantly it protects it from being vandalised or stolen. Why keep a hundred pounds worth of junk in the garage, but leave thousands of pounds worth of car on the drive?
|
I live in an early 90's built house with a garage that the architects neglected to actually make big enough to fit a car in. More accurately, they neglected to make it wide enough to fit a car in that you can actually then open any of the doors on. I don't think the Volvo would fit at all (though haven't tried it).
It's basically a workshop for the bike, and a junk store.
|
And while your car is parked outside the garage your house might seem less attractive to someone with burglary on their mind.
Clk Sec
|
And while your car is parked outside the garage your house might seem less attractive to someone with burglary on their mind.
True, however they may burgle your house just to get the keys to the car they want to take off your drive....
Like DP above my garage is wide enough to let me drive in but not open the doors to get out. Apart from my Mini that was - it was tight but I could get in and out without resorting to some Harry Houdini style moves.
|
|
You can get my car in the garage but the only way to get in or out of it is through the sunroof which is fairly undignified.
|
..get out through the sunroof....
Perfect excuse to buy a British-built, two-seat, open-top (fully-hyphenated:)) sports car.
|
Cold Weather coming.....
so cold last night (-7 here) that some of my pipes in the house froze.
|
I won't rejoice here in northern New South Wales because I find very hot weather uncomfortable.... and I got a tick on one of my toes. You can buy a special tick removing kit in chemists here though. Unfortunately I had already torn the beast's abdomen off in the shower. Remarkably tough for such a small creature iniitially. And its ghastly jaws, all of a millimetre wide and virtually invisible to me even with my reading specs, clamped in a tiny death-rictus on one of the pain nerves in my toe, had to be brutally unscrewed and pulled out with the special tweezers.
Yarooh!
(cue for AE to claim he was killed by a spider while being kicked to death by a red kangaroo).
Goodness what a heavenly place. And to think that in the fifties they gave people a tenner to come here.
|
you damn whimp lud.
yes i was bitten by a redback - it was like a wasp sting. the wife just phoned her cuz, who is staying at their farm in the WA wheat belt. Its 43c - now thats uncomfortable.
|
|
I've just spent two hours with all the other neighbours trying to clear the snow from the road, the driveways and around the houses. It's like a winter wonderland here at the moment. We drove back from our New Year engagements in some dreadful conditions. Only one clear lane on the dual carriageways so passing the slow traffic meant moving over onto packed snow at 60mph. It's -5 during the day and hasn't risen above zero for several days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
If possible avoid leaving the front of your car facing north. Keeps the engine and in particular the radiator away from north winds and it is generally not a problem to defrost the rear window using the screen heater when ready.
I've have a dilema with the above.
My driveway is on a uphill facing north, majority of time I reverse onto it so front facing north so I can drive staight off and have good visibility plus I thought it was not could practise to reverse a car when cold.
Also as my car is front wheel drive diesel I may stuggle to reverse if the driveway is slippery, not keen to park on road as in the past where I used to live someone managed to revese into my car
|
Also as my car is front wheel drive diesel I may stuggle to reverse if the driveway is slippery
Have i got your post the wrong way round, if its slippery a diesel (especially cos the engine is normally heavier) or any FWD car is much more likely to be able to reverse up a slope than drive forward.
Same as a RWD is more likely to do the opposite and is best driven up; having slung some heavy gear in the boot first..;)
EDIT. Rub it in Lud why don't you, back to work tomorrow, ice and salty roads, don't you fret about us mind sorry about the Tick...;)
Edited by gordonbennet on 04/01/2009 at 12:32
|
correct GB...
one reason i prefer RWD, as you accelerate (forwards!) the weight transfers towards the rear of the car adding grip on a RWD, and reducing it on a FWD - causing wheel spin.
in my experience RWD tyre wear is more balanced, ie front and rear tyres wear rates are closer, where as im always replacing the front tyres on FWD cars.
thats due to the acceleration forces, as well as braking AND steering forces all acting on the poor over worked front wheels!
Hmmmm maybe I need to have an operation to lighten my right foot?
|
|
|
Have i got your post the wrong way round if its slippery a diesel (especially cos the engine is normally heavier) or any FWD car is much more likely to be able to reverse up a slope than drive forward.
I was thinking that in reversing the engine would be pushing the car.
Remember in the early 80's neighbours with rear wheel drive cars found it easier to reverse up hill rather than go up forwards
|
Remember in the early 80's neighbours with rear wheel drive cars found it easier to reverse up hill rather than go up forwards
the reason for that, in my opinion, is more because people reverse with more care, lighter throttle etc, that they do going forwards!
|
|
|
Remember in the early 80's neighbours with rear wheel drive cars found it easier to reverse up hill rather than go up forwards
That goes against everything i've ever experienced, ST is right when he mentiones weight transfer, your FWD car facing backwards uphill will be very heavy over the front wheels, probably 70/30% heavier on the front wheels.
If you are facing forwads uphill your same car may lose 20% of weight off the front wheels especially as you start to move.
We should have some very scientific expanations in a while..;)
I stand by to hang my head in shame.
I have a feeling you may have ignited the touchpaper for another RWD/FWD discussion with your post ST.
|
|
The reason why cars can reverse up hills that they might not be able to manage in first gear, is because the gearing is generally shorter in reverse than in first.
|
"The reason why cars can reverse up hills that they might not be able to manage in first gear, is because the gearing is generally shorter in reverse than in first"
We're discussing traction, not power aren't we?
|
We're discussing traction not power aren't we?
I thought we were.What's the relevant connection between gear ratio's and power?
|
Some auto boxes have a * setting for starting in snow ie in 2nd gear not first. Might the same technique work with a manual? Higher gear could mean lower power and less risk of wheel spin!
|
|
Quite a coincindence - I happen to be putting together almost the same sums for a project I'm working on at the moment, and so, it was quite quick to put together an estimate.
Using 70% as the initial proportion of mass on the front axle, and temporarily ignoring the distinction between sprung and unsprung mass, and any movement of the body on the suspension,....
E=106*25.4e-3; % Wheelbase (m) - based on 106 inches M=1000; % Vehicle mass (kg) W=M*9.81; % Vehicle weight (N) W1=0.7*W; % Weight on front axle W2=0.3*W; % Weight on rear axle H=0.5; % Height of c of g (m) gradient=3:20; % a range of gradients, from 1 in 3, to 1 in 20 theta=atan(1./gradient); a=(W2*E)/W; % Distance of c of g behind front axle (m) W_r=(a-H.*sin(theta)).*(W/E); W_f=W-W_r;
[gradient' ((W_f-W1)./W1)']
ans =
3.0000 0.0839
4.0000 0.0643
5.0000 0.0520
6.0000 0.0436
7.0000 0.0375
8.0000 0.0329
9.0000 0.0293
10.0000 0.0264
11.0000 0.0240
12.0000 0.0220
13.0000 0.0203
14.0000 0.0189
15.0000 0.0176
16.0000 0.0165
17.0000 0.0156
18.0000 0.0147
19.0000 0.0139
20.0000 0.0132
Even on a 1 in 3 gradient, you only get 8.4% extra mass on the drive axle - so the effect is there, but it's not particularly strong (certainly not 20%).
Edited by Number_Cruncher on 04/01/2009 at 15:23
|
|
Starting in a higher gear in an auto only helps because of the torque converter, if you didn't have one, it would make things worse. My old car would start in 3rd when the snowflake button was pressed and the line pressure would be reduced. The RPM would be quite high because of the high difference in speed between the TC input and output. This allowed very low speed but high torque out of the TC. It was more akin to driving a boat with a small propeller with big changes in RPM having hardly any effect on speed.
|
|
|
Even on a 1 in 3 gradient you only get 8.4% extra mass on the drive axle - so the effect is there but it's not particularly strong (certainly not 20%).
I knew it.....head hung in shame.....but NC did say it was a positive effect and it feels much better in use when the uncalculated suspension movement caused weight transfer makes itself felt he said optimistically, there's hope yet..;)
|
8.4% could easily be the difference between traction and movement or not!
|
|
|
>>he said optimistically
Very optimistically! If the suspension is fairly stiff, the petrol sloshing to the back of the tank probably has a bigger effect!
As AE says, this weight transfer effect can be enough to make the difference.
|
Very optimistically! If the suspension is fairly stiff the petrol sloshing to the back of
When bloke on ground, me in this case.....stop kicking..;)
Wanders off in shame...Tigger being denied a bounce by Rabbit would be a vision to imagine....
|
>>When bloke on ground...
Sorry GB, not my intention!
One of the interesting things about the calc (for odd types like me at least!) is that it shows the weight transfer happens only because the centre of gravity is above ground level - if by magic, you could make the c of g very low, you would get very little weight transfer, and that would hold for acceleration, braking and cornering too.
|
One of the interesting things about the calc
It's interesting for more non engineering types like me too, as said above, you can sort of feel the weight transfer occur especially once you get moving but as you've proved there's very little actual gain there, it just feels like weight transfer, its probably acceleration thats being felt.
I suppose it makes a small increase in difference then on a high ground clearance vehicles then, but maybe only negligible figures.
Its good being wrong when someone who knows their coffee can prove it so well by the way.
|
>>Its good being wrong
But, you weren't wrong! - I'm sure that if you picked a vehicle with a shorter wheelbase, and a higher c of g, then the results will come closer to the 20% you mentioned. It's just that for reasonable slopes, and ordinary cars, it's not quite that large of an effect.
Having said that it's not a huge effect, it is definitiely included in the early stages of vehicle layout calcs when gradability (and hence the first gear ratio) is being estimated.
|
Re the OP, -11C in Benson, Oxon last night. Something like the 4th lowest temperature ever recorded there.
My outside thermometer/weather station thingy was showing -8 when I turned in at 11ish last night.
Proper cold winter this year, at long last. Most fortunate that I'm benefiting from a Volvo heater for the first time, really. :-)
Cheers
DP
|
My car windows are frozen, wont raise or lower. -7 here this morning. The old VW dieel engine does not like the cold, 30 minutes / 10 miles to get to operating temperature. The washer fluid is just holding out tho - one jet is dribbling the other is fine.
|
haven't used my car for 2 weeks, but needed it this morning at 0500. Went out last night at
-2C to thicken up the washer fluid with more concentrate and it took me ten minutes to be able to get the stuff through the system and running through the nozzles
worked o.k. this morning though...but...unless i continually used it, the screen then re-froze until i got some heat out of the heater
was only showing -2C this morning as well, but the roads were well iffy, can't understand why others weren't driving more sensibly (time and place and all that)...3 litres and rear wheel drive doesn't help
|
|
Yep, cold in Sevenoaks too. Went downstairs at about 3am as I couldn't sleep and our weatherstation jobby was saying it was -9.7c. Was a beautiful clear night, but when I got up at 7am the temp had reached a heady -2.5c as it had clouded over a lot.
|
AE, up Glasgow way its a bit milder today, +2 degrees, but of rain and some fog.
Washed the Altea last Friday, just as Humph has said not to do!
It was a nice sunny afternoon, probably about +4/5, hosed and washed the car. Of course got very frosty that night with the clear skies. Next morning struggled to get the driver's door open, pressed the "S" button on the boot to open it and it stuck solid in the tilted position!
And agree with you, the diesel engine takes ages to heat up but it is always reassuring when you press the washers and you get that lovely fine spray over your whole windscreen.
What is not as good, however, is when the auto wipers decide to randomly wipe the screen when it is dry with just a fine layer of dust and grit on it!
|
And keeping on the cold weather and icy theme, hands up all those who, in conditions like this, every journey at some point includes a wee test of the car's traction control just to see if the light comes on!
I do it on the access road to our estate which is never gritted and I also have a very quiet roundabout with large run off areas that I like to establish when the grip stops....
|
Yesterday morning my car recorded -11 C in Sundon (Bedfordshire).
|
hands up all those who in conditions like this every journey at some point includes a wee test of the car's traction control just to see if the light comes on!
:-)
Whistles innocently........
|
Whistles innocently........
>>
Wet cobbles in Edinburgh are good for an ABS/TC check. We dont get ice very often!
|
|
I spent my childhood in Edinburgh ON. Went to school in the city centre. Learned to drive at the BSM in Morrison St. ( Quite a while ago now ! ) but remember well the wet cobbles. I miss Auld Reekie.
|
|
Hit -10 in Devon last night. New personal best. Haven't tried the car yet, don't see why it shouldn't work fine. Sympathy with Altea Ego though, 30 mins to operating temperature and the fuel economy sucks the whole time it's getting there.
|
I miss Auld Reekie.
BSM still there, I bet they dont use wet cobles for emergency stop training.
|
My office in Glasgow is in a cobbled street.
Interesting handling in the wet and frost.
When dry, even a slight turn of the tyres results in a "Professionals" type squeal from them!
|
You have awoken memories of early automotive misbehaviour ON. One favourite pastime on a snowy night was to get on to the "Radical Road" round Arthur's Seat if they hadn't closed it....... Do we have an equivalent of the American "statute of limitations" ? It was around 1976 after all......
;-)
|
For a while in the late 80's I stayed in a flat in Abbeyhill which led onto Arthur's Seat. Was always a good cure for a hangover to get out and do some walking there and get some fresh air about you!
Was much more difficult to get some Irn-Bru through there though :(
|
Oh they had it alright, they probably just didn't understand what you were singing, sorry, I mean saying......
;-)
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 07/01/2009 at 12:21
|
Oi us Weegies speak proper!
Its you Lothianers that sing , like, ken! :)
|
Didnt Rab C's posh brother live in Kent? Sidcup I think.
Get te .......
|
sorry my mistake , it was mary's cousin shug.
|
My son's Astra had the handbrake frozen on yesterday morning, tried quickly to free it but no luck, so I gave him a lift to work. Somehow I managed to leave it without the handbrake engaged or in gear, and as we have a driveway that slopes down towards the garage, at some point during the day it became unstuck! Luckily for the garage door the car was offset slightly and ended up brushing the brickwork which seems to have slowed it down. Damage to car minimal.
He moved it back a bit at the time, and then much later went to move it onto the road. The handbrake is frozen again! Called the RAC who suggested pouring hot water onto each rear wheel to see if it become unstuck. After a while I was able to get it off the drive, although the handbrake was still partly engaged. After a driving it around for 5 minutes or so, and engaging/disengaging the handbrake, it eventually freed up.
Parked it on the flat, with the handbrake off but the car in gear. Suggested to so he takes it somewhere quite soon to get the problem looked at.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
