Given the recent thread (www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=59...7 ) {edited to include a space so that the link will work - DD} that developed into an interesting discussion about commuting, I thought I'd start a new thread about why people do spend a few hours a day just travelling to work.
My own perspective is that my wife and young children get to live somewhere nice, with everything they need locally (including both primary and high schools), where we even have policemen on the beat (sometimes on bikes, rarely in cars). The downside is that I spend 2.5hrs a day travelling 110miles (roundtrip to work). The advantage I have is that my employers are flexible, so I leave the house at 5.20am and am at my desk working by 6.30, so generally I leave at around 3.45/4pm and I'm home generally not later than 5.30.
However, I see my job as being short term(ish - probably 2 years) and will probably look for my next move to allow me to work from home. As my current employer pays home to work mileage, perhaps I can use that to try and convince them of the argument that I should work from home. But before that happens I need to make the applications I use accessible from home via a VPN or even hosted on the net...
So why do you commute? Do you both commute a long distance? Is getting a job closer to home likely? Or moving closer to the job?
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 09/01/2008 at 09:56
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Because it is cheaper to buy a house where I work (twice the price) and my wife would also need to look for another job or have the same commute in reverse.
I have re-located three times in the past for jobs.
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I've just measured my commute it's 13 paces from bed to chair with a 10cm drop onto the stair landing and a 10cm step up to my studio. I'd love a cup of coffee right now but I'd have to go down two flights of stairs. Unfortunately I still have to drive the kids to school which is 28 miles in total every day.
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ijws15 - thats pretty much the same as me then
Dave - there's always one person who has that 10metre trip to work!! You lucky person...
How many of us actually NEED to travel somewhere to work (ie who does an office-type job that could be based at home?)
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I used to do Manchester Leeds every day and it was hideous, I'd never do that kind of journey again.
That said, I now work half the week in London, but obviously do that by train so I don't really think of that as a commute - which doesn't really stack up as a piece of logic.
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Enjoy working in London
Enjoy the salary that comes with working in London.
Wouldn't want to live or raise my kids in London, or at least any of the parts of it I could even half afford to buy a house in.
So I spend 3.5 hrs a day commuting.
Company are at last waking up to the 21st century and piloting home working though, so this may change. 50% of the time I come into the office merely to comply with the rules, not because my job, or anything I'm working on requires me to be there.
I think government legislation in this area would be the single most effective thing they could do to reduce road congestion. Even 10% of traffic off the roads between 7 and 9 would make a massive difference for people who genuinely have to travel to work, and see a serious reduction in CO2 emissions.
But it wouldn't raise a penny in revenue.
Cheers
DP
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Why?
1. Because there are no jobs close to where I live that suit my qualifications
2. House prices (for "decent" houses in "decent" areas) are too high
3. I can't do my job from home (although on odd occasions I could)
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Fortunately my current job requires only 18 (2x9) miles of commute. Although it takes over half an hour each way because of traffic jam.
Most people commute because of universal reason! The high paying jobs are usually concentrated around London. Obviously ludicrous house prices pushed people further & further from city. Net result = excessive commuting.
However, if I work at/near London, I won't commute, rather will use train.
Today, following M1 closure, almost 50% of people in my office are working from home!
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I've just measured my commute it's 13 paces from bed to chair with a 10cm drop onto the stair landing and a 10cm step up to my studio.
Now I managed to do my bit for the environment and cut my journey to work in half.
I now sleep on the other side of the bed, instead of 16 paces to work it is now only 8 - unless I need the bathroom first, that increases my journey by quite a long way!!!
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I live where I live as my previous commute was 8 miles each way.
Then I changed job and so I spend approx 1½ hours travelling 60 miles in total each day.
I will NOT move anywhere near Birmingham even though a house could be cheaper.
I cannot take my work home.
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i think ive worked out the traffic congestion problem !! they are paying people too much thus making it attractive to sit in traffic for three hours a day and still earn a wedge
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I bought into a business in 1990 which had an existing customer base. My commute was 140 miles; I didn't consider moving immediately because my lender told me I would need 3 years accounts to support a mortgage at a nearer address. I left home at 7:00ish to be at my desk for 8:30 and didn't get home until 8 - ish. Now I've sold up my commute is local to various addresses, or by cycle to the swimming pool 6 miles away.
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Well sitting here with laptop, Blackberry and mobile a couple of hundred miles from my Office
speaking to clients and dealing with their problems as if I was behind my desk, hell my blackberry even tells me when I have voicemails on my deskphone and lets me play them, I can also dip into the BR as and when what more can one need - this is what I was promised by Tomorrow's World !
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 09/01/2008 at 09:55
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Wimbledon to W'loo; train every 5 minutes, takes 17 minutes. Then the "drain" to Bank; then a walk to Fenchurch St. Total around 40 minutes door-to-door.
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I'm getting jealous now of you lot who don't have to travel out of the house to work....
I work in the construction industry, but my job does not need me to be in an office, but the industry does not yet have the systems to support me working from home. Note I use the word yet!
It currently costs the company nearly £19 per day for me to travel to work, so I'm reckoning there is some mileage (pun intended) in me using that cost saving as a base for working from home...
At least I can dip into the BR whenever I want as there is no monitoring of internet usage! Its all about getting the work done!
Now all I need to do is learn how to do web-based databases and I can start working from home.......
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Been there, done that but I am now in a job that requires high mileages although I effectively work from home.
Would backroomers favour a situation in which employers are forced to offer "work from home" say one day a week if working conditions made it feasible? Just as employers in France have had to adapt to a 35 hour working week, for better or worse...
As well as environmental concerns, there is also Health and Safety (more mileage = greater chance of stress, tiredness, accidents and injury and inevitably contributing to all the congestion and pollution)
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You would possibly find that if the home becomes your "workplace" that there may have to be a Risk Assessment prepared by your company.
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You would possibly find that if the home becomes your "workplace" that there may have to be a Risk Assessment prepared by your company.
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I was tasked with investigating home working.
It was a can of worms what with H & S etc.
I suspect that most ignore all this.
Some considerations.
Electrical safety - house and items in use checked and certified annually ?
Correct lighting, chair, desk, room temperature, and general working environment ?
That is before the basics of monitoring human resources "performance".
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Say nothing I think to anyone.
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I'm getting jealous now of you lot who don't have to travel out of the house to work....
I'm not! I had 25 years of "office" work and would not want to go back to it! Give me open spaces and direct contact with the public any day.
My current commute is 19 miles each way, either driving the whole way - 40mins or half driving/half train 55mins - suits me just fine.
I, too, would not want to live in Birmingham itself, but there are lots of lovely places only 45 mins from the centre and that suits me just fine.......
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"I'm getting jealous now of you lot who don't have to travel out of the house to work..."
Don't be, it's not all roses. If you're a sociable animal, you might miss the contact you had with other people. You have to cram all your flirting in on supermarket trips and the school run.
Although I've been self-employed since 1997, up until recently I've always made the decision to rent a studio in town and be surrounded by other like-minded people. I'll probably go back to doing that later this year but it will definitely be within walking distance, 2-miles max. Under no condition will I ever go back to a commute where I have to drive. I work very long hours, often till 2 or 3 in the morning, I just couldn't hack having a commute on top of that. I'm too old.
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BBD is right, working from home is not all roses but - when you are not busy it's great to be able to use the time to your own benefit and, touch wood, I don't think I end up with as many coughs and sneezes as those who work in an office.
Edited by smokie on 10/01/2008 at 09:42
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I did used t commute from Reading to Walthamstow 4 out of 5 days a week, on the 5th day I would go from Reading to Colchester!!! Would take up to 4 hours each way quite easily!!
I was lucky that my working time started as soon as I left the house in the morning - some days (quite a few in winter) I would not even reach my destination!! I knew every pothole and bump on the northern stretch of the M25!
Did that for about a year before they found someone closer to cover those contracts!
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I have always worked for myself and so never 'commuted' in the conventional sense. I do most of my work from home with some visits to clients, about half of them overseas.
I try to organise things to minimise my own stress. For example if I know a client is 1.5 hours drive away then I won't meet before 10.30am. That means I don't need to leave home before 9am - I can take the kids to school and benefit from quieter roads. Where possible I use trains and taxis.
In recent years I have have reduced my working 'year' to 9 months, so that I can take extended holidays whilst the children are off school in order to spend as much family time as possible. There are not many people who lie of their death bed and wish they'd spent more time working or commuting!!
If travelling o'seas then I use B'ham airport and take a taxi there. You can get most places from B'ham, even it means a change at Paris, Frankfurt, Zurich etc. I would rather do that than travel to one of the South East airports.
At my time of life I try to minimise stress and hassle, even if it means earning a bit less money. I think regular long-distance commuting is very harmful to the health and well-being and is responsible for many people's life dissatisfaction. Life is too short. I have known people who have commuted long distances and they have generally been unhappy and desperate to give it up.
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I do the same as you Aprilla, if I have to go out to meet clients (once or twice a week normally) I always schedule the meeting making sure I avoid rush hours - never meet before 11 normally (ties in nicely for lunch I find) and always finished by 3pm, or very occasionally meet at 4pm and finish about 6.30 so still missing rush hour. Now my time is my own I prefer not to spend it sat in traffic if I can avoid it.
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For many years I commuted 185 Miles a day from near York to the Fylde coast in Lancashire via the A59, over the notorious Blubberhouses moor ( featured in many a radio traffic bulletin), only the last 10 miles were Motorway. And apart from the winter months I enjoyed it. I set off early - a great time to drive - everybody on the road drives with a sense of pupose. Wednesday evenings were always slow, seemed to be every pensioners day out, with a beige Metro at the head of a long queue. Favourite car for the job was the Civic Coupe, comfortable, economical and with a wide rev band for overtaking. Crossing Blubberhouses last weekend reminded me of the many happy times I've spent there waiting for iced up carb's to thaw out and helping to salt the road by hand to get stuck HGVs going.
When the kids arrived it was time for a reappraisal of priorities and we moved over the Pennines, but one factor in choosing the house was the drive to work. I now do 45 miles a day on pleasnt , traffic free, winding lanes and thoroughly enjoy it. Am I the only one ?
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Half of my journey is very pleasant, the 12miles from the village to the nearest town is through rolling countryside, up and down some (steep) hills, and the Golf loves it. And rarely any traffic on a morning (as long as I get past the steel stockholders before the first lorry leaves....), and the M42 is not too bad as far as motorways go, especially with the variable speed limits and hard shoulder running.
And there is no way on this earth I would want to move closer to the office. Jobs come and go, but family life is exactly that - for life. I enjoy my job, but it won't be for life. I used to travel Huddersfield to Leeds - now that was stressful! It might have been less than 30 miles each way, but it used to take well over an hour to do. I also commuted from Huddersfield to Halesowen every day for 2 months until we moved down to the Midlands - and that wasn't enjoyable. The journey home used to take about 3 hours.
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"So why do you commute"
Basically because I can't find a job in my local area that matches my skills, qualifications and salary expectations. Thus, it's an 80 odd mile round trip from Sutton Coldfield to Nottingham each day.
"Do you both commute a long distance?"
No, Mrs T works locally. Our parents are local. The children's school is local.
"Is getting a job closer to home likely?"
I would say it's possible, but not likely. My career is in university administration, so I have only a small number of possible employers. I have made a conscious choice not to work in post 92 places (although I have done in the past) which only really leaves Birmingham and Warwick Universities as potential employers within a more reasonable commute. Waiting for a suitable job to come up is like waiting for Aston Villa to win the Premiership.
"Or moving closer to the job?"
For us, this would mean a huge family disruption and a move to an area where we have no friends or family. We would all have to incur a major disruption, where as with a commute, it's just me who has a tougher time rather than everyone. It would also mean we would have to incure child care costs, as the good lady wife would have to work.
So, I see commuting as a necessary evil at the moment.
TT.
--
Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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Reading (home) - Bath (work) = ~160 miles, because:
- great job
- work at home 2 days a week
- easy train journey, £23, plus 2 x cycle (4 miles, train option) and walk (1 mile)
- work for 2 of the 3.5 hours total commute (included in working time)
- family is established in Reading, lot of hassle to move, Bath area even more expensive than Reading
- quite enjoy the commute
For the previous 20 years I had never lived more than 9 miles from work and always walked/run/cycled, so hopefully my carbon account will be in the black for a while yet.
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Why do I commute a long distance?
Same as many others, really. I can't do what I do where I live for anything like the sort of money that I get at the moment (if at all), and I don't particularly want (nor can I afford) to live where I do actually do it.
Hence 60-mile daily round trip and a two-year-old Mondeo with 37,000 miles on it already.
Commute has been a lot better since we moved out of Worthing to a village some miles west, though - cross-country route which is a much better drive than mile after mile of congested dual carriageway
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I commute because:
- Over the years I was outpriced by rental prices and taxes further and further away from big city. At some point you realise a mortgage on a house outside M25 can be cheaper than rent on someone else's flat in capital...
- Employers have postcode obsession. 19 out of 24 people sitting around me in the room at the moment commute more than 25 miles into the office. So, how is that alledged "central location" convenient for anyone?
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- Employers have postcode obsession. 19 out of 24 people sitting around me in the room at the moment commute more than 25 miles into the office. So how is that alledged "central location" convenient for anyone?
Thats an interesting point and I agree. British companies, more so than most other Western European companies, have this obsession with everything being in London, and as you say, the reality is that it is convenient now for virtually no one, unless you live in a cardboard box on the embankment.
Comparing Germany to UK, their industry and commerce is much more evenly spread across the country, so why do we all flock to London like bees round a jam pot ?
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I don't any more, eight miles each way in the UK...
Also I am the UK boss of my company so up to me what I do and thats the way I like it.
Most people do the long commutes for the money - simple as that.
In the past I have travelled the SW quadrant of the M25 from Reigate to Hounslow, possibly the most congested bit of road and worst commute in the UK to earn a crust and fund helicopter jr through private school and Cambridge.
My choice at the time, as I say though , not any more..... Retirement beckons but I still enjoy what I do so I keep on doing it.
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My standard commute, as I have mentioned before, is a 5 minute trundle along the towpath of the river Main. Occasionally it´s a 20 minute trundle to the other side of town if we´re rehearsing up there.
When I have a weekend concert I look forward to a good blast up the Autobahn - or even better, a trip in one of the ICE trains, they´re just fantastic. I actively look forward to both options!
Once a year I try to get a ´guest´ job away from Frankfurt, typically 6 to 8 weeks away, and usually in a European city (Milan, Lille and Vienna were the last three). Normally the car comes with, and the battered city bike goes on the top. Car generally accumulates dust during the week whilst I try and work my way around the town on the bike.
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We have someone who works for us (senior network consultant) and they work from home most of the time. They are currently working on a large IT project - one of the biggest we have. Broadband etc. allows this.... but she actually lives in France but does commute a bit.
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I loathe commuting. I once commuted by train from Cambridge to London; at 90 minutes that wasn't too bad... until the next week the Hatfield crash upped it to 2 hours or more.
I now live in the middle of London, a mile south of the millennium bridge. Last job was a 30 minutes wander through town.
Never driven to get to work; never want to.
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Not a very long journey: 25 miles each way.
I like a bit of a drive between home and work - separates the two places nicely, even though I really like my job.
Could find similar in the same town as I live in, so reduce distance to 3 miles, but it's not such a pleasant place to work.
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In the 90s, I commuted from Norwich to London - around 5 hours per day! Started by train (appalling!), then car/train (OK) and finally by car all the way (best). The reason? Career progression and negative equity (remember that?).
Now its 2008 and we're in Devon. I commute into Bristol a couple of days a week (125 mile round trip on M5) and work from home the rest of the time utilising the modern technology enjoyed by PU and others. Regular work trips to London remind me of the boredom of rail travel
I would still commute long distance if the dosh was right..............
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I still do upwards of 40k miles a year. The subtle difference is, in my view anyway, that it is my choice when I do it. I took the decision some years ago to become self-employed. It is not all roses. Some years I earn more than I would if I were employed in my field, others I earn less. You just have to get your head round that and a few other things. The overall effect though, is the freedom to choose when and how hard you work. Some days I have driven 700 miles or more. Other days I don't move from the house and let the computer take the strain. Comparing this lifestyle with my previous one it's, as they say "a no-brainer". I love it.
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I know someone who used to commute 110 miles each way five days a week to the outskirts of London - he was always first in the office and last to leave.
After a number of years he and his wife decided to move home.
You've guessed it. The new property was even further away from London.
Mad.
Edited by Stuartli on 10/01/2008 at 23:49
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Of course there is the other end of the spectrum. I know a publisher who lives probably more than 100 metres but certainly not 200 metres from work and he drives every day. Not only that, but he lives in luxury apartments and his parking space is 2 levels under ground. His parking space at work is also two levels underground and he has to wait for two sets of electric gates to open. If he were to walk, there are two footpaths that would shave 30% off his road journey too. The last time I spoke to him he was complaining about heart problems.
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I used to live in Basingstoke and cycled to work on the other side of Basingstoke.
But then used to think nothing of going upto the Lake District at a weekend, maybe 3 times/year, nice 700 mile round trip, oh dear how tired am I come Monday morning ?
I then jacked work in, sold my house there and moved to Lancs with no job to go to.
But depsite working in a fairly specialised (i.e. narrow) segment of the I.T industry, managed to find a job up here paying about 75% of my former southern salary.
Bought a better house for roughly same price as I sold southern one for (but in nice village) and have a 9 mile journey to/from work, which I cycle at least twice a week.
Most people I know now, as we enter our late-30's are now trying to reduce their commutes by getting a job nearer home. money isn't everything (unless you are intending on paying for your kids education or you like buying new cars every 2 years etc etc).
And it's no fun getting in at 7:30pm when the kids are in bed.
"Perhaps I'll see Daddy tomorrow...."
"I think it might be the weekend before you see Daddy..."
Good thing is that living close to work, if the car doesn't start, who cares, I'll cycle in and sort the car out at the weekend (not happened yet as I have a Nissan).
I am sure one day in the next 20+ years of my working life I may have to consider a long commute but I'd do my damnest to avoid it.
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The shortest answer to this thread is "ludicrous house price"
Anyone who has taken mortgage in recent years will probably agree.
And once you add kid's education (eg. private school etc.) on top of that, life becomes quite tough.
So, when both Mr & Mrs are working and kid(s) is/are in a good school, it becomes very difficult to move. Price might be cheaper up north, but Mrs might have no prospect there!
So, people will have to commute. Probably even more in future.
Widening of the motorways won't solve the problem. As traffic flow becomes better, people will start commutating over a longer distances!
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