Not sodding Ryton again, Im sick of people moaning about the closure.
The workers knew years ago that the 206 would be the last thing to come of the production line & that there would be NO replacement for it.
Should get plenty of housing on that land when the factory has been knocked down.
|
I hope your jobsare secure for you.
Nice to see christmas spirit and compassion showing !
A more efficient plant than others in the Peugeot empire, but its british and its easier/cheaper to close down. All been covered before so not starting it again, just reminding its politics/greed/money and not peoples welfare thats important.
But its ok, we are only the txpayers !
|
|
|
People can't buy houses if they haven't got jobs.
It would be nice to have a manufacturing base in the Midlands, which was, need I remind you, the cradle of the Industrial Revolution....
|
Im sick of People having a go at Peugeot for closing the factory.
Ryton closure has been on the cards for many years.
The workers have had more then enough warning, they all knew the 206 would be the LAST thing made by the factory, they knew they wouldnt get the 207 to replace it so why have a go at Peugeot now?
They had plenty of time to leave & find other jobs.
|
Sorry but its way deeper than having a go at peugeot if you can see a bigger picture.
Have a nice christmas and secure new year without worrying aboout the bills coming in. Perhaps you know of more jobs in the coventry area that pay sensible money than I do though, and I may be just naive !
|
My deepest sympathies are with the workers. Living in Oxford when BMW bought Rover, and knowing people affected by the mass redundancies at Cowley over the years that followed, I know the "domino" effect these kind of closures have. It's not just the factory workers that are losing here. It's the local businesses that supply parts, tools, office services, maintenance services, logistics, cleaning, catering and all the other support services. Many are small companies for whom the loss of a contract this size will be devastating.
You can argue until you're blue in the face about the whys and wherefors. The point is a few thousand people are on the dole queue a week before Christmas, and another thousand will probably join them in the coming years as a knock on effect.
Good luck guys! :-(
Cheers
DP
|
Good post DP !
You put into words what a lot of people know !
|
It's called a 'Flexible Workforce' by the Capitalists isn't it? :-/
----------------------------------------------
Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
|
It's easy to be "flexible" if you're some chinless blueblood haw hawing your way around the City, not so easy if you're a normal person living in a normal place doing a normal job. Despite my rather pompous comments about housing up the page, I DO kind of understand Lee's views. I'd love to know his ideas for industries that they should work in though.
We in this septic isle are very dismissive of the skills of anyone who doesn't have a degree in superfluity and work in marketing (like myself, and I freely admit that) but there is a huge skills base there that probably don't all want to stack shelves in B&Q and be patronised by apartment-dwelling idiots all day every day.
|
It's easy to be "flexible" if you're some chinless blueblood haw hawing your way around the City, not so easy if you're a normal person living in a normal place doing a normal job.
It was sarcasm. What industry bosses say when trying to get rid of regulation that cuts in to their profit margin.
----------------------------------------------
Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
|
|
Yes I know Sim-O! I was having a go at them rather than you!! : ) Sorry for the misunderstanding.
|
Yes I know Sim-O! I was having a go at them rather than you!! : ) Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Oh. ditto :-)
----------------------------------------------
Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
|
|
They had plenty of time to leave & find other jobs.
Like the local DIY store or takeaway..
Mr Power you are talking complete cobblers.
|
|
Believe who you like, Ill just believe the people I know who work for Peugeot at Ryton & moved to new posts in the organisation about 2 years ago when the cards where finally on the wall for Ryton closure.
|
|
|
|
Ryton closure has been on the cards for many years ................ They had plenty of time to leave & find other jobs.
That's more than somewhat callous. After you reach a certain age employment becomes ever more difficult to obtain. Obviously it depends to an extent on what your job is and what your aspirations are. The lower your aspirations, the easier it is to find another job. I doubt if there are many vacancies in car production in the whole of the country let alone Coventry.
Another aspect is that the problem is not just one faced by UK engineering in general or Peugeot in particular. It appears to be the price we have to pay these days for having a high standard of living and it may eventually apply to many types of job. Perhaps Mr Power is in fact in one of these jobs?!!
However, if the standard of living in Slovakia, India etc ever overtakes ours then the movement of production (and other types of job, such as call centres to name but one) may well be reversed. But if I wasn't already retired I wouldn't want to hold my breath in anticipation.
--
L\'escargot.
|
LeePower your comments are childish and offensive. So what if it had been on the cards for years, it is still a sad day for many of the remaining workforce who have been loyal and stuck it out till the end. Please have some respect.
As a Jaguar employee, it really saddens me to think I could be next.
Tell us LeePower as my snail friend above mentions, what is your industry? Would you like me to mock you when your friends / family lose there jobs, jobs that they stuck out till the end because the loved them so much?
I usually never reply to these wind up merchants, but you have caught me on a bad day. Grrrrrrr.
|
I might or might not agree with LeePower, but I can't really see how his comments are childish; or particularly offensive come to that. Nor did I see him mocking anyone.
Car manufacturers are commercial organisations in business for profit, not a charity. I think its a shame when anyone loses their job. I don't see why its any more sad because they work in a car plant. And its not a surprise, its been a known thing for some considerable period of time. I am not a Jaguar employee, but it would still sadden me if I was next. Why would it sadden someone in a car plant more ?
Had the work force been offered a job somewhere else for more money, would they have insisted on remaining with Peugeot out of loyality ? Why then should they think that Peugeot would do so for them ? And if people are going to call for subsidies and government protection for the car industry, then I'd like it for mine as well please.
|
He is not "mocking" but he is being a bit "it's easy if everyone did x and y" in his attitudes, IMHO. Life ain't that simple.
Read my point above for a (rather emotional as opposed to No FM2R's relentless logic as always, and that IS a compliment) brief précis of what I think.
|
|
|
|
I have read LeePower's posts carefully and I do not see him mocking anyone. He has simply pointed out that this has been on the cards for some time.
|
I agree that Leepower is just being realistic but for his comment:
"They had plenty of time to leave & find other jobs."
It doesnt work like that because understandably the guys will wait for redundancy, those that have been there 20 years plus will get a reasonable sum, so there will be a lot of applicants for every manufacturing job in the area for some while to come.
|
Some old factory (that once bult Talbot Horizons etc) hardly counts as an icon.
Shame about the disruption to people's lives, though.
|
Didn't the site belong to the Rootes group? They made all sorts of long gone 'classics'. The Imp being my favourite, yes I know about the Imp being made in Scotland.
Seems about the same level of compassion as when the mines were shut down or the steelworks...
Steve.
---
Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
|
"Seems about the same level of compassion as when the mines were shut down or the steelworks"
I come from Sheffield. I remember the miles of steelworks from when I was a kid. You could drive for two or three miles down Saville Street and you were driving through a canyon between steelworks walls. Now it's all gone....or is it?
Now, instead, there are a handful of small, purpose-built factories employing a handful of workers, producing more steel than all those miles of works used to. What do you want me to be compassionate about? Should the works have continued employing hundreds of thousands and gone out of business? Would that have been better for Sheffield?
Sheffield now has a hundred small industrial estates where people are generating real wealth rather than being subsidised in loss-making businesses. I'm prepared to bet that Ryton will end up the same. Yes, it's hard in the short term (and yes, I've been made redundant in my day, hence why I ended up in Southampton) but in the long term people will start the businesses that in 20 years are major employers.
But, then again, I'm obviously just a rotten capitalist at heart.
V
|
I'm sad to see it close. It more people who've done 'real work' (i.e. as opposed to shuffling bits of paper and collecting commission) on to the dole. There are very few reasonably paid jobs in Coventry and even the ones that are poorly paid are had to get because there are plenty of East Europeans who'll always work for less...
Still, when you're trying to build a land fit for estate agents then what's a few thousand more on the dole.
I know Pug grumble about higher wages in the UK than Slovakia - but its the income of their higher-paid British customers they rely on for profitability. Maybe they'd like to sell their cars at Slovakian market prices and see how much profit they make? And of course its the British plant they close down - not the French (with their inflexible workforces, high social costs etc etc).
|
|
Thank you cheddar for that rational and reasonable last paragraph, phrased like a fellow human being and not some middle-management monkey.
It's SO SO easy to be smug when it's someone else isn't it? I think your last paragraph sums it up perfectly. If Peugeot are so blimmin' efficient and trim, then they could afford to help out surely? It's people at the end of the day.
|
|
Sad news, but the factory hardly reached iconic status! Unless OP was talking about Peugeots...
|
iconic status!
the only iconic status a 206 has for me is they must be priceless because i wont touch one............
|
people who want to protect dying british industries at all costs.
people who believe the world owes us a living.
people who think some type of work is beneath their status.
people who think working in b&q, or in supermarket, or building houses, etc, are non jobs.
look at the ftse100 companies and you will see that:
these are people all the same quite happy to live in this 5th largest economy of the world, which gets its status from fthe city, financial, banking, insurance tourism/hospitality, telecoms (vodafone), oil(bp), .....etc.
just try and work for a year of two on a vso project in a third world country and it soon becomes apparent that what matters is access to water, food, warmth, and shelter. working in a doomed car factory is not anyone's priority.
in the socialist uk, the redundant workers have access to a world-class social security system.
unlike the ford and gm workers who are losing jobs in america.
|
Sad news, but the factory hardly reached iconic status! Unless OP was talking about Peugeots...>>
I was referring to the days when it was a Rootes Factory. Although it's last cars where forgettable you can't deny that the factory isn't.
|
I remember reading in a book recently how a jointly owned parts supply factory (Toyota and GM) in the US was due for closure because of model replacement. GM walked away from the factory but this behaviour is unheard of in the Toyota management team so they decided to keep the factory open making Toyota parts. They claimed that the loyalty of the workforce in producing good parts for so long should be rewarded, and sacking them for being good workers and just placing the work elsewhere because it may be a little cheaper was unethical.
The Ryton closure is sad but if we are all serious about supporting British car jobs then we should all be buying cars made in Swindon, Halewood, Burnaston and Sunderland now.
How many on this site do that I wonder.
|
The Ryton closure is sad but if we are all serious about supporting British car jobs then we should all be buying cars made in Swindon, Halewood, Burnaston and Sunderland now.>>
Please forgive my ignorance, but exactly which makes - and models - are we talking about then. I know my son's Nissan Primera was made in Sunderland 'cos it's got a sticker to say so.
Thanks
|
>>Please forgive my ignorance, but exactly which makes - and models - are we talking about then.
Well the Toyota car plant at Burnaston, Derbyshire currently makes the Avensis and the Corolla. Early next year they will start producing the Corolla's replacement which is called the Auris, alongside the current Avensis.
|
I was referring to the days when it was a Rootes Factory. Although it's last cars where forgettable you can't deny that the factory isn't.
I'm having a problem with Ryton being iconic. Name me one car that came out there that was iconic
|
>>Please forgive my ignorance, but exactly which makes - and models - are we talking about then. I know my son's Nissan Primera was made in Sunderland 'cos it's got a sticker to say so. <<
I think the list goes like this:-
Nissan Sunderland - Primera (until recently), Micra, Note and Qashqui.
Toyota Burnaston - Corolla (Auris) and Avensis. (Engines at Dee side)
Cowley - Mini
Hams Hall Birmingham - BMW 4 cylinder engines
Honda Swindon - CRV and Civic
Halewood - X type and Freelander (I think XK, XJ and S type are made in Coventry)
Solihull - Discovery & Range Rover (Sport)
Ellesmere Port - Astra
My knowledge starts to fail me after this.
|
You can add Goodwood and the RR Phantom, of you're feeling flush ;-). Alternatively, perhaps Southampton and the Transit would be a little more practical :-)
Peter
|
Halewood - X type and Freelander (I think XK, XJ and S type are made in Coventry)
Nah, XK, KJ and S Type are made in Castle Bromwich.
Also missing from the above list is Dagenham - Ford Diesel engines.
|
people who want to protect dying british industries at all costs. people who believe the world owes us a living. people who think some type of work is beneath their status. people who think working in b&q, or in supermarket, or building houses, etc, are non jobs.
Nothing to do with a 'dying' industry, its a relocation (helped along by generous subsidy from the Slovak government).
I don't think the world owes us a living - but large multinationals depend for their profits on the sales achieved in the more affluent West whilst shifting assembly to Eastern Europe and Asia. 'Build it cheap, sell it dear' is the mantra. Pair of Nikes made in Vietnam for £2 by girls working a 90 hour week and sold in UK for £70 - there is nothing clever or smart about that - people in both countries are being cheated one way or the other.
Working on the shopfloor in B&Q etc is not a non-job, but its a job where you don't earn enough to buy a house (or rent a decent one) or bring up kids.
Unfortunately we now have an 'hour glass' economy, with a bunch of people at the top with good jobs (often protected by some 'professional association' which has erected barriers to entry), secure incomes, good pensions to look forward to, a couple of overseas holidays a year and possibly a 'buy to let' for that extra bit of long term security. I am fortunate enough to belong to that group, thank God.
At the bottom of the 'hour glass' are the people in the low-paid and insecure jobs. Thankfully for the rest of us (as the Bank of England has recently reported) immigration is adding to the supply of these workers and hence keeping inflation down for us by holding down their pay. I fear for the long-term social consequences of this strategy.
The bit in the middle (the Pug workers for example) is disappearing as reasonably paid and secure, but 'non-professional', jobs are allowed to wither away.
The French, Germans, Scandinavians etc have not gone down this route and strongly support their industries. And thankfully the Japanese continue to show some faith in the UK worker.
Everyone seems to agree that subsidies are a bad thing - unless of course they are agricultural subsidies, in which case they are essential for the countryside and to protect the rural way of life. In 2003-04 there were over 500 UK farms which got more than £300,000 subsidy.......
|
Everyone seems to agree that subsidies are a bad thing - unless of course they are agricultural subsidies, in which case they are essential for the countryside and to protect the rural way of life. In 2003-04 there were over 500 UK farms which got more than £300,000 subsidy.......
There is another hour glass in agriculture. The £300k grants go to monoculture grain factories in East Anglia. Meanwhile the price the Devon farmer gets less for milk is less in cash than twenty years ago and Lakeland's hill farmers struggle to sell fleece at all. Farm incomes in the hills are commonly below £5k.
|
circular reasoning, myths, fallacies, where do i begin? as it is turning in to a discussion about economics more than motoring, so i will just reply once to some of these points.
Nothing to do with a 'dying' industry, its a relocation
i all it reincarnation, life after death of the dying industry.
(helped along by generous subsidy from the Slovak government).
good for them if they can afford it.
I don't think the world owes us a living..... - there is nothing clever or smart about that - people in both countries are being cheated one way or the other.
long may the cheating continue. i love being cheated like that, just as the vietnamese love being cheated by the west. but then neither me nor the vietnamese are clever orsmart enough to know it.
Working on the shopfloor in B&Q etc is not a non-job, but its a job where you don't earn enough to buy a house (or rent a decent one) or bring up kids.
where do all these (childless?) people live then (in homeless people's hostels?) and if they do have kids, where do these poor kids disappear? you claim that all these buy-to-let owners are buying properties, but then claim that no-one can afford to pay the rent on them. buy-to-keep-vacant?
also, remember the shining examples of european countries you mentioned? do you know how many of their people live in rented or state owned accomodation? and that britain probably has the highest ratio of owner-occupied homes?
Unfortunately we now have an 'hour glass' economy, with a bunch of people at the top ... I am fortunate enough to belong to that group, thank God.
i desribe it more like a puffer fish - the top few including you being at the mouth end.
At the bottom of the 'hour glass' are the people in the low-paid and insecure jobs.
they are at the tail end of the puffer fish.
Thankfully for the rest of us
but you said you are in the top bracket (at the mouth end).
The bit in the middle (the Pug workers for example) is disappearing as reasonably paid and secure, but 'non-professional', jobs are allowed to wither away.
not to worry. lots of new jobs being created in the state service industry (e.g. lots of health and safety officers around, plus two administartors for each doctor, and similarlyfor each policeman, who now needs four hours just to book in a suspect assuming the suspect's duty solicitor turns up in that time).
The French, Germans, Scandinavians etc have not gone down this route and strongly support their industries.
and thier standing in the world economic league table is .... ?
And thankfully the Japanese continue to show some faith in the UK worker.
so they have chosen the british over expanding their own japanese workforce?
and what about the failure of nissan and mazda who had to be rescued by foreign companies?
Everyone seems to agree that subsidies are a bad thing - unless of course they are agricultural subsidies, in which case they are essential for the countryside and to protect the rural way of life. In 2003-04 there were over 500 UK farms which got more than £300,000 subsidy.......
are you suggesting that the labour party depends on the rural vote to stay in power?
anyway, i think it is essential to protect our food supplies. as i said earlier, water, food, energy and shelter are the keys to life. the car industry is not.
|
I am all right jack, thank you very much seems to be the majority attitude on here !, apart from a very few exceptions!
What a future we face, with my customers as an example. They are the people who cant afford houses and take low paid jobs (all thats available) and are subsiddised by tax credits etc whilst the profitable companies move the jobs away to make even more money. The circle will go on and get worse but as long as youre not in that circle then the 1st paragraph aplies !
Happy christmas, i hate the attitude of many on here on this subject so am not adding any more !
|
Hear hear yorkiebar.
Just remember that the world doesn't owe you a living, and that you should be humbled by being lucky enough to be born in this country..... bow and scrape and be deferential to the elite, and you too may one day be allowed to load their trollies with fancy goods while they patronise you. But of course, all of them to a man/woman would say that said goods aren't that important as long as you have food and shelter..... which is easy to say when you're rich.
Thank you mum and dad for making sure I was born in this country, and I will return to my work now, humbled by the fact that I could lose my job at any point, a job that I am not owed despite working hard to get the qualifications for...... I must remember to go and doff my cap to our shareholders later, as their immense wealth is obviously far more deserved than my humble salary.
Tongue now out of cheek.
|
Thank you mum and dad for making sure I was born in this country
There shouldn't be anything tongue in cheek about that statement.
--
L\'escargot.
|
Without wishing to be insulting, and certainly agreeing that everyone is entitled to their opinion, can I ask why?
Let me add the caveat I have nothing against this country, and admire many of it's strengths. Likewise, as a citizen I am entitled to, and do, comment on and critiscise it's weaknesses which are many.
|
Why?
Because you live in a country where you can say pretty much anything you like about your rulers. You can vote them out and they will go. You're unlikely to be killed for your religious or social views. You have access to the law. If you're out of work you won't starve to death.. You won't be asked for bribes for everything you try to do. You're pretty safe walking down the street. You're in the richest 10% of the world's population. You fear very few illnesses. If you are ill you have access to uncharged health care. There are no animals that can poison you to death. The weather is unlikely to kill you. The roads are amongst the safest in the world.
Two minutes thought about places I've been brought up that list and I even managed a motoring link.
V
|
I just typed an extremely passionate and (I thought) very good reply to Vin and l'escargot. And do you know what I did? I had logged out and then in again, so it went to the log-in page and wiped the whole lot. I am a broken man!
The gist of my answer sans the emotion is: yes, I agree with much of what you say, but I also think there's a lot wrong and a whole lot of complacency (not from you guys, I mean in general). And for what it's worth, one of the deep pleasures of British life is the intellect of the most unexpected people, and the quality and spirit of debate.... perfectly exemplified on here. I like arguing about such things, I hope you people don't look down on me for being slightly impertinent by daring to make my earlier comment.
And that's my short answer, and I need to go and do some work before my boss does a Ryton on me. : )
|
Sad news, but the factory hardly reached iconic status!
During WWII the factory made aircraft engines and any factory that helped us win the war was, in my opinion, iconic.
--
L\'escargot.
|
|
|
|
If you must know im an engineer in a service industry, Also thanks to the government letting all the immigrants in to work cheaply there is plenty of work for us engineers.
Also working for a world wide company being backed by Toyota has its rewards.
|
Immigrants! Coming over here and stealing our hamsters.....
At least they're providing work for those higher up the scale eh?
: )
Wasn't I going to do some work? I'll go again now.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Should get plenty of housing on that land when the factory has been knocked down.
That's if anyone wants to live alongside the A45 dual carriageway with (I believe) a bridge going over it to connect with the A423.
--
L\'escargot.
|
Quite shocked by some of the right wing and well.. expected comments by one or two posters.
Thank goodness there's still some intelligent BR's with some sensible and thought provoking comments too. You know who you are.
At least Ryton and it's beleagured employees are not forgotton here.
Another nail in the coffin of Britains once proud motoring heritage sums up my views.
|
>>Another nail in the coffin of Britains once proud motoring heritage sums up my views.
Agreed. Sadly though the internment was some 25 years after the death. Meanwhile the smell has been awful.
By the way, what were they proud of exactly ? The Allegro ? The Avenger ? Imp, 1100, or Princess ? Labour relations, efficiency or quality ? Or that more recent manufacturing done within the auspices of a non-uk company where some worthwhile things have happened ?
|
Well just to clear up a few points.
I was born in Sheffield and still live here. Generations of my family were steelworkers or Coal Miners. My BIL still works at the steel plant. I've worked in a DIY 'shed' and enjoyed it too, shame some of the customers have such low opinions of shop assistants. Sheffield making as much steel as it used to? You've read too much spin. Sheffield's capacity is now tiny. Oh and I did work placement at Sheffield Forgemasters (nee BSC & Firth Browns) when I left school. Oh and I've been made redundant at Christmas twice. If you want to see what shutting a big local employer does have a look at Flint, Mitchigan, USA. The biggest industry in Sheffield now is students and associated services.
I look at it this way, it was better to subsidise every steelworker to the tune of say £50 a week (plucked out of thin air) until you have a replacement industry than close down the plant and have to pay him multiples of that amount in dole money. Also the surrounding jobs that go with it. Funny how people moan that a tradesman cost a fortune, what did they think would happen when when they introduced the Youth Training Scheme and the big employers went, who's going to train the new generation?
I wonder if the car manufacturers would be so quick to close plants in 'first world countries' if they were force to sell them at the prices in the country they were made or made to pay the difference in tax. They want the profit but not the rest that goes with it - i.e supporting the local economy.
I drive a Citroen and she drives a Peugeot. Previously Rovers and BL.
Not in my back yard? Why am I not surprised.
Happy Christmas.
Steve.
---
Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
|
There is good news too;
www.smithelectricvehicles.com/products.asp?p=n&ite...0
Number_Cruncher
|
Yes, up to 400 jobs over the next 3 years.
Don't panic boys the jobs are there, oh not enough sorry !
|
|
|
|
"Sheffield making as much steel as it used to? "
A twenty second search brought up.
www.beyond-the-bottom-line.co.uk/chapter7.html
I quote: Today the numbers employed in Sheffield steel are only a fraction of those in its heyday, when the city was regarded as a steel capital of the world. But businessman Richard Field is keen to dispel any notion that Sheffield's renowned steel and cutlery industries are in terminal decline. Surprisingly the city, where stainless steel was invented, makes more steel now than it did at the height of World War II, he points out.
Richard Field was Sheffield Master Cutler, so I do tend to believe he might just know his stuff.
Then again, who wants the truth when emotions are running?
V
|
|
|
|
|
Not sodding Ryton again, Im sick of people moaning about the closure.
Why are you getting so worked up about something which (apparently) doesn't affect you in the slightest? And why do you think the rest of us want to know your opinion on this subject? It looks to me like you're just giving your inflated ego an airing.
--
L\'escargot.
|
Surely usinesses will operate where the costs are lower, all other things being equal. That is certainly not the UK.
One cause of this is the cost of employment in this counryr. This is a function not only of the wages that skilled workers demand, but also of all the extra costs that are loaded onto employers by governments and the EC.
It is a classic example of the rule of unintended consequences, ie that the state imposes all sorts of rules and regulations that are intended to benefit the workforce, but the end result is that businesses are closed and moved abroad.
Gordon Brown does not seem to get this message, his answer to everything is ever increasing regulation and state control.
I certainly think think that the unions are not the bogeymen in all this. 20 years ago maybe, but not now.
|
This is a function not only of the wages that skilled workers demand, but also ............
I trust that by "skilled" you don't just mean manually skilled, but are also including "staff" jobs from the CEO downwards?
--
L\'escargot.
|
Another Icon going.. - Imagos {P} Wed 13 Dec 06 11:22 Quite shocked by some of the right wing and well.. expected comments by one or two posters.
yes, very easy to spot the jingoistic protectionist nationalist "little englander" type comments.
|
>> Quite shocked by some of the right wing and well.. expected comments by one or two posters. yes, very easy to spot the jingoistic protectionist nationalist "little englander" type comments.
But those are usually contradictory positions. Right wing = market forces, free labour/capital/factory movement.
Left wing = protect the workers, state subsidies, legal minimum wage, shelter behind tariff walls.
|
And neither are ideal.
But a bit of both ?
|
Shelter behind tariffs, protect the workers, and you get Rover.
Had the government had the balls to let half the Rover workforce be made redundant a few years ago, the remaining workforce might well have had stable jobs making small volume sports cars. As it was, they propped up a failing enterprise, which eventually went bust and lost everyone their jobs.
I got made redundant in March btw, so have every sympathy for the workers, but one of the reasons my company went bust was that they didn't make people redundant and focus on what was working. Foolish short term thinking. You can't survive if you don't go with the market.
If anyone on here disagrees, could they let us know how much over the list price they paid for items supporting British workers, as a contribution towards their jobs. No? Didn't think so.
It's a hard and nasty world, but the world doesn't owe any of us a living, as my decimated savings will attest after this year.
|
agree but........
the ide of the eu is not to move jobs to the cheapest place. All that i s happening.
If the governments (any brand u like) had the bottle to stand up !
|
Sheffield making more steel than it used to, complete fantasy and nothing to do with emotions. A game of numbers again. If Sheffield was making that much steel we in Sheffield would know about it, especially since I have family in the industry. The Master Cutler, don't make me laugh, what Cutlery is actually made in Sheffield? Very little, though lots claim to be. A suit in job.
When did you last look around the east end of Sheffield. Still if an official says somethings so then it must be true.
Consider this fact - steel is steel no matter how it's made it occupies a set amount of space there isn't enough factory space to make the quantity of steel that we used to.
Happy Christmas.
Steve.
---
Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
|
spot on glowplug
At least there are enough manufacturing jobs left to keep us all in a healthy future !
i mean, in trouble in a few yaers !
One of the worlds best econoimies too. Which means that the finincial institutions are making moiney, not that people are living any better !
|
I can help but think that DIY is popular in 'modern' countries because there's so little 'real' work and most of us are now 'paper shufflers' or 'desk jockeys'.
---
Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
|
>>not that people are living any better
I'm not that old, but I can remember when the streets were not packed with cars, and parking wasn't such a big problem, simply because many couldn't afford cars. Despite the doom and gloom merchants, I think that in real terms, we have never been as well off as we are today. When I was a kid, foreign holidays were viewed as rather decadent and exotic.
Again, despite the large factories closing, there are smaller enterprisies opening up and expanding, as per my link above. Oddly, very few others seem to be at all keen on talking about these positive aspects.
Number_Cruncher
|
What a bleak outlook. I was having a good day until I read this thread :-(
|
"Consider this fact - steel is steel no matter how it's made it occupies a set amount of space there isn't enough factory space to make the quantity of steel that we used to."
Pardon? You don't think that processes become more efficient? Car factories used to have acres and acres of parts stock. Now they run just in time. Thus, car factories are now smaller than they used to be. Your logic would say they MUST be producing fewer cars because they don't take up the same volume.
Triumph motorcycles is now a tiny factory with (I'm referring to a fact remembered from several years ago) 20 or so employees. They produce more motorcycles than the thousands of employees of old Triuph ever did. It's called progress.
As for "Happy Christmas" - is that meant to make me feel like a Scrooge? As I mentioned before, I've been made redundant. I got on with life and got another job (as a motorcycle courier, having been kicked from a very well paid job in IT). I ended up doing it for about six years in all. I didn't bleat about my old job being special and needing support; I just got on with my life.
V
|
|
|
|
