As many have mentioned when a warning light comes on it's usually too late, whereby a gauge can indicate problems of undercooling and rising/fluctuating temperatures. Only of use to technical or mechanically sympathetic drivers. Most just get in, start up and drive off.
Wonder if in future many Corsa's with overheating problems will have warranty issues if the owner ignored the warning light?
On a side issue I was thinking this morning how many basic cars now have ABS, power steering and electric windows/central locking. Going back 15 or 20 years to Mk1 Micras or Fiestas power steering was rare but now it's probably not possible to buy a new car without it?
Progress in one respect but small things disappear like the temp gauge and spare wheels (Picanto etc).
Ever tried steering a car with failed engine and power steering?
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"I would write off buying a Fiat Grnade Punto since there is no way to open the boot without first going into the cabin and rooting around for the boot release mechanism. How many road test omit this very basic feature when reviewing the Grande Punto?"
Worse still, on the old Punto the hatch's lock wasn't linked to the central locking for the cabin. So it was possible to lock the doors, open the boot using the key, drop the key into the boot, shut the hatch and lock yourself out of the car.
Lucky for me, the day I discovered this I was 30 minutes drive from home and a spare key could be delivered to me.
Whatever about temperature gauges, rev counters or warning lights, an idiot-proof boot lock is an essential feature in my book! But again, how many buyers think of it on a test drive?
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I agree that a warning light may be too late. What is so complicated about a simple gauge? Even an old Ford van I had, back in the 70s, had a temperature gauge.
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"So it was possible to lock the doors, open the boot using the key, drop the key into the boot, shut the hatch and lock yourself out of the car."
That happened to a friend's A4 - only we were 3 miles up a track at a bothy in the highlands. Took the RAC man 3 hours to get the keys back.... Progress - great isn't it!
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Imo you are all living in the Dark Ages if you drive around looking at water temperature gauges:-)
After 3 years and no action, you'll get bored and miss it when your negelect means the top hose splits.
Far better a warning light that FLASHES on : had that on A4 tdi when top hose became disconnected at 70mph in third lane M6. Stopped., phoned AA, topped up water after reconnection, no damge done after another 30k miles.
Only drivers with memories of Minis (old style) need oil and water guages. {I fitted both after blowing up engine - rod through block .. no guages}
Warning lights imo are fine for 99% of all circumstances.
As for those who ignore them, they would NEVER look at a guage anyway and understand it less.
Anyone who sees an unfamiliar RED light and continues driving deserves the inevitable bills..imo
Yes Yaris has system as described: blue light when cold, no light when OK, Red when hot. and all tested at startup. That's all I need...
madf
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>>Only drivers with memories of Minis (old style) need oil and water guages.
I do remember the days before cars were fitted with many guages. A neighbour had a very early Mini, one with sliding drivers windows and canvanous pockets in the door and a pull cord to open the door. It had a speedo with an odometer, a temperature light and a manual choke. No fuel guage in the 4 gallon (about 18 litres) tank, so they kept an exercise book and noted the mileage and the amount of fuel added to the tank. A quick mental calculation was made to see if the tank needed filling. I cannot remember if they ever ran out of fuel, but I do not think so.
So OP, what's your problem? May be if you kept a better eye on what your car's requirements for oil, water, etc you would never breakdown.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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Surely,at this time of year,a temp guage is essential to tell you when you can put the heater on,obviously putting it off at startup to allow the engine to warm up quicker.Once the 'stat has started opening the heater is acting like an extra rediator of course.
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Given the amount of heat an engine produces I would have thought putting the in car heater on would have little effect on how fast the engine heats up. When it's cold and I am starting up I put my heater on straight away.
Someone will now probably tell me I am doing some engine damage by letting my engine run cold for longer.
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Torque means nothing without RPM
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I thought that the heater didn't work until the thermostat opened?? So would have no effect on heating engine heating time.
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I would much rather have a nice gauge to warn me that something abnormal is happening way before it has reached a "red light" condition where I must (If I have any sense stop immediatly)
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Heater is independant of engine thermostat - this just stops water getting to the radiator until the block is hot.
As far as temperature guages are concerned, on many modern cars they are little better than a yaris blue/red light anyway as they are computer controlled. On modern VW cars (Golf V etc.), the guage says "90" for any temperature between 75° and 110°C (i.e. up to temperature). It only moves if the engine gets too hot, or too cold.
Joe
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Warning lights have two problems:
1) They often only come on when it's too late (oil pressure for example)
2) If the bulb blows you've had it. Admittedly most cars have a bulb test routine when you switch on, but who stares at their dash when they turn the key?
At least an unserviceable gauge sticks out like a sore thumb.
Cheers
DP
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I switch off my heater fan when the engine is cold, but only to prevent being covered with cold air,
Imo the only two essential instruments are a petrol guage and a speedo.. the rest are superfluous
madf
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"Imo the only two essential instruments are a petrol guage and a speedo.. the rest are superfluous
madf"
Not if you got a rover 414.
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Some gauges are useful - for example on an old 1969 MGB roadster I used to drive about ten years ago the two six volt batteries under the rear shelf had a problem where the main cable was shorting out against the chassis - symptoms were a misfire and lack of power very similar to duff fuel or plugs. Looking at the ammeter it was swinging wildly from plus to minus 30a (only noticed after the AA patrol found the problem and the live cable had burnt away some metal). Unlikely to happen on modern cars (unless major electical short) perhaps but useful none the less to check such indicators. Don't think any new cars have such things anymore, voltmeters are a different thing altogether.
Oil pressure gauges are also good to check presure at idle then when under load. Always on old BL cars you could spot problems. The MGB had an actual oil feed to the rear of the gauge via a thin metal tube (there is a technical name for this item).
I now check the temperature gauge every day especially when driving from cold being aware of the good practice not the thrash the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature, ie the mid point of the gauge. Suppose most people don't bother with that sort of thing unless a car enthusiast.
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I forgot about that point. I won't attempt to overtake another car or any hard acceleration until the temperature gauge is sitting nicely in its normal 90degree position. The time this takes varies massivly from winter to summer.
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Veering a little off topic I wonder how long it will be before manufactures start fititng cars with full 'glass cockpits' i.e. all visual information is generated virtually rather than physically. - sort of iDrive gone mad.
They could the offer a range of virtual dashboards as optional extras or downloads, you could change from 1950s Mini instruments to full-on seven dial sports instruments at the flick of a switch. Or you could customise the 'skin' yourself, perhaps having a huge great temeprature gauge in the centre of the dash and a tiny little speedo over in the corner...
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What a brilliant idea!! I like that.
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What a brilliant idea!! I like that.
I suggested that somewhere on this forum years ago. No one seemed so exited about it then. Give it another 5 years.
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huge great temeprature gauge in the centre of the dash and a tiny little speedo over in the corner
Ideal for a K series engined car !
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I now check the temperature gauge every day especially when driving from cold being aware of the good practice not the thrash the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature
SWMBO's old Pug 106 XSi had an oil temperature gauge on it - the only car either of us have ever owned to be so equipped. It was very educational.
Basically the "lag" between the coolant coming up to temperature and the oil coming up to temperature, certainly in town driving is a good 3 miles+. The temperature gauge would have dragged it's way up to the usual half way point and the oil temperature needle would need several more miles before it even moved.
Of course an oil pressure gauge can also give you a clue as to the oil temperature (pressure drops back as the oil warms/thins), but I always assumed oil and water temperatures bore a closer relationship to each other than in fact they do. A warm engine according to the coolant temperature gauge doesn't necessarily indicate an engine that's ready to cane.
I've certainly changed the way I treat a cold or partially warm engine since I had this car, and also what I consider an acceptable running period before draining engine oil.
Cheers
DP
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My views on modern cars is they should be 100% reliable and if they are unwell should tell you so.
Anything else is stoone age engineering. Why should I look at a temperature guage to tell me my engine is overheating?. It should tell me.
SWMBO's 106 diesel usually travels 1.5 miles. Then it's full stop. I expect it to be 100% reliable. It is.. apart from consumables which I check regularly. I care not whether the oil is warm or not cos its changed annually.
Son drives a BASIC 1.1 Ford Fiesta 1993 -4 era with basic instruments. He does 15k miles ayear. Touch wood it's been 100% reliable. No need for water temperature guages.
IMO guages are a plaster for badly engineered or built carp (as someone replied earleir Rover 214 :-)
No modern car should need them. Full stop.
You're all living in the Victorian era with brass dials:-)) and leather seats from another thread:-))
madf
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Im a 206 owner & like a lot of Peugeot / Citroen cars it has a very useful gauge I have never seen on another make of car.
Oil level gauge on start up, Very handy thing to have as well as the STOP light.
All you need gauge wise is speedo, rev counter, fuel level, water temp & oil level gauge.
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Don't see the point of an oil level gauge. But an oil pressure gauge is a good idea. Warning light may not warn you until damage has been done, gauge is instant.
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Its just nice to know there's oil in the sump before you start the engine, The amount of cars where the oil level is never checked because the owner cant be bothered is quite shocking.
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the oillevel is never checked because the owner cant be bothered is quite shocking.
Perhaps so, but I wasn't thinking of people like that. One just has to be careful not to buy a car from one of them!
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Things have moved on admittedly. On the old MGB the gauges were so very dimly lit at night you had to use a small pen torch to scan them and take readings for temp, oil pressure, amps and fuel at regular intervals on long journeys. Often I would tap the front of the old Smiths gauges like with a barometer to get an accurate reading. On the 2CV the petrol gauge is a tiny thing at the bottom of the speedo, when you took a corner sharply the needle would swing from full to empty. Never understood why, must have been basic technology. I think early ones only had a dipstick to test the fuel level in the tank.
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"I would write off buying a Fiat Grnade Punto since there is no way to open the boot without first going into the cabin and rooting around for the boot release mechanism. How many road test omit this very basic feature when reviewing the Grande Punto?" Worse still, on the old Punto the hatch's lock wasn't linked to the central locking for the cabin. So it was possible to lock the doors, open the boot using the key, drop the key into the boot, shut the hatch and lock yourself out of the car.
But you can release it with your remote key.
I think if you go around some of the show rooms and look at various models of different manufacturers, you will find others do the same.
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But you can release it with your remote key. I think if you go around some of the show rooms and look at various models of different manufacturers, you will find others do the same.
Intresting. I have not actually had first hand experiance of the Grande Punto, but have read in more than one review that you can't get inside the boot from the outside, until you use the boot relase mechanisim, located inside the car.
Do you have first hand knowledge of the boot release mechanisim ? If so thanks for the usefull info, I will have enquire further.
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Torque means nothing without RPM
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>> But you can release it with your remote key. >> I think if you go around some of the show rooms >> and look at various models of different manufacturers, you will find >> others do the same. Intresting. I have not actually had first hand experiance of the Grande Punto, but have read in more than one review that you can't get inside the boot from the outside, until you use the boot relase mechanisim, located inside the car. Do you have first hand knowledge of the boot release mechanisim ? If so thanks for the usefull info, I will have enquire further.
Yes, I can say I have first hand knowledge of these. Its true you can't open the boot by actually using the key in a lock, but the remote will and as stated via a button on the dash.
You have two keys with the G.Punto. One is the remote with the boot release and central locking and the other is a plain key. No matter model you have.
Don't always believe what you read!!!!!
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Many thanks for info. Grande Punto now on my roadtest list for potential purchases.
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Torque means nothing without RPM
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">drop the key into the boot,<"
But why would one drop the key into the boot in the first place? That would be silly. What happens if the boot is then shut and it locks.....?
Do you throw your front door key into the house before you shut the front door? ;-)
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Don't mock. I've locked a Rover 800 with the remote, opened the boot with a key (which does NOT disarm the c locking), left my keys on the boot floor, forgotten.. and shut the boot..
:-( Hassle..
Lots of other cars have Punto design...
madf
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If the problem with warning lights is that they are likely to be too late, then the sensors just need setting so that they cut in a bit earlier.
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>>Ever tried steering a car with failed engine and power steering?
Only the once as they say.
Whe I was student in London I used to work part time unpaid (except in kind) in a Jaguar specialist mews garage in Battersea.
We had a Mk 10 in with a problem of engine cutting out on sharpish left hand corners.
I was asked to run it around the block after it was - supposedly fixed - to test it.
Needless to say the engine cut out in mid corner, and it was a pig to steer with no power. The brakes weren't too special either!
I got it back to the garage in one piece and we did find the cause later.
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One suspects you were some sort of Crash Test dummy ! :-)
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I'm glad I had a temperature gauge on my old car, a 1996 Nissan Micra. About seven years ago, I was on my way home from work (a third of the way through a 20 mile journey), when I heard what I thought was a loud bang from a stone hitting the underside of the car - little did I know, but it had actually hit and broken the water pump belt.
It wasn't until about 2/3 way home that I happened to notice the gauge had moved near to the red line, and sure enough by the time I reached home and opened the bonnet, steam was escaping. Fortunately, the RAC man said the head gasket looked fine, topped up the water and changed the belt (cost: £7.95!!!). A generous local dealer in north London checked the coolant content for free (my local in Hertfordshire wanted £25 for that) - it was fine.
I'm glad I wasn't on a long journey, as relying on a warning light (particularly if the bulb had gone, although unlikely) might prove too late.
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Put simply, imo
If you cant look at a guage and appreciate what its telling you you should notbe driving it.
You look at revs? Speedo? Why not temperature ? Can components not fail or items break (even if new?)
Every one wants hands free phones and lovely sat nav but dont want basic information ! The most important gauge in the car bar none is the temperature. Can tell you (or your mechanic) whats happening at different temperatures, if the car is over cooled or over heating etc etc etc.
Never buy a car without one ! Unles you like christmas trees in the car and want another little light to tell you its too late. !
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I noticed the absence of a Temp. gauge in a hired Astra we had a couple of weeks ago, there was a plaintive flashing from the computer "check coolant" which I did and it seemed ok. Nothing like a gauge for the early spotting of a problem..
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Well coincidentaly i drove a 2006 VW Sharan today for several hundred miles with a Engine oil *temperature* gauge and Ammeter no less!
Didn't know they even 'ad 'em!
Anyway both gauges and the water temperature gauge too stood proudly at TDC the whole time and didn't even flinch!
So what's the point of them i hear you ask?
Well for me it's reassurance.. something the Corsa doesn't give me.
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Well for me it's reassurance.. something the Corsa doesn't give me.
yup yup yup
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