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I'm not complaining about traffic lights not sensing me or waiting for timers, I am complaining about them sensing my approach via induction loops or IR sensor, and turning to red, even though there is no-one else to allow to cross my path. I draw to a halt, sit there staring at an empty junction, and as soon as something does approach to cross my path, it turns amber for them, and green for me. If you watch the junction, you can clearly see this is triggered by cars passing an exact spot. This is at most junctions here in Nottingham City, and in Manchester City.
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In that case, red means it's safe to go for you because there are no cars approaching on the other road. So once you get to know where the cameras are, you're all set.
Not that I'm advocating running red lights here, but if authorities are genuinally trying to inconvenience the motorist by changing the lights to red when you approach then they may be shooting themselves in the foot a little. The police have lost the repsect of the motorist. The local councils could do without losing it too.
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Haven't done it on "real" traffic lights yet, only temporary ones, but with the increase in "political" delays I am seriously considering a policy ignoring reds if there is no other traffic and no camera.
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First, just to correct a small point, IR sensing is not good in traffic detection and it would be unusual to find it being used. What you see are radars.
Secondly, many control systems operate to a tight time schedule. If no vehicle is over the sensor loops for two seconds or so the lights start their time out.
This might be happening in your example and the control is choosing a green to be shown to the other direction. If the traffic density is as you describe, this suggests an inadequate design, or setup, for that junction.
There are engineers and then there are engineers.
My own view is that juntion lights should revert to all red, when vehicle sense is lost, unless there is good reason why they should not. For the reasons explained.
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Something has changed though (in Nottingham) I used to drive around admiring the way the lights seemed to be phased to ensure the best flow of traffic, you got to learn and anticipate them, you felt like there was someone in traffic management centre on your side and pushing buttons to help you on the way, now it's like there is someone there zapping you in a computer game, Hah, you b'word!, take that you driver! Wait for it.......hah! Got you there.
It really is obvious they have phased the lights so you stop at almost every set, and lots of (intelligent and observent) people have commented on this. At the end of the day, it's confirmed in PC 'new-speak' that this is the Council's plan, so there it is in black and white, it's the classic, 'problem-reaction-solution' in full swing, and I suggest congestion charging will be the solution- Oh, what do you know, that's in their plan for 2007 too!
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Re-timing the lights is what our Ken up in London did when he got in and then after protests it had to be altered back.
Before I read your last post, saying it was political, I had put a few words together to describe another scenein which control can look a bit odd. So here goes as it might be of some interest generally.
If the sensing at a junction is being done by the little boxes on top of the lights (radars), as opposed to using loops in the road, then that in itself could be the reason for a control system like you complain of.
Radars are easy to fit but are subject to some detection misses. So when the green on your road is finished with, the control system plays safe and gives the green to the other direction, because it can't be sure a vehicle has not been missed.
Radar detection is often much better publicised by those selling radars, to traffic engineers, than is the radar mis-detection.
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I know how you feel ST. The only positive thing I heard was on the local radio a few weeks ago. They were asking some shopkeepers what they thought of Nottinghan city council's plan to further limit car access around Victoria shopping centre. The chap they interviewed was set against it, he claimed that trade had gone 15% since the council's last effort. Where had that extra trade gone then ? Easy, up the M1 to Meadow Hall.
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I go to work at 5 am. The first two sets of lights near home always change to green on approach if not already green and there is no other traffic. The A34 as I approach, seems to default to green. Years ago if I got caught on red at these lights it seemed to take ages, so somebody at Stockport council has taken an enlightened approach to the phasing of these particular lights. Which contrasts dramatically with the lights at J23 of the M60, where the complete opposite applies, they are always on red and it is frustrating to sit there waiting knowing I am the only car within the vicinity of the whole junction. Shame on Tameside council.
Interestingly, before I got my current car -which has cruise control - when I used to work in Manchester city centre at 6 am, going to work up the A34 was always a stop start affair. For novelty purposes with the new car I set the cruise to just over 40 mph and I always managed to sail through all 6 lights on green.
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Here is my 1 pence worth into this fascinating subject....
In New York, pedestrians are not allowed to cross the roads other than at crossing points ( the jaywalking laws ). They were provided with a button to press to switch the Walk to Dont Walk signs. Some years ago the traffic commisioners disconnected these buttons - they were still there but had no function - the walk signs were now purely on timers. For years New Yorkers have been pressing these buttons thinking they had some control over their use. A deliberate policy was made to keep this information secret. There was outrage when the public found out.
Peak Traffic signals. On the Cobham turn off roundabout over the A3 a perfectly useable roundabout was fitted with Peak traffic lights not operated by road sensors but just timed. The result was huge jams, made worse by the fact these lights became full time monsters.
On the M25 J11 southbound exit a set of traffic lights are installed. There is a left turn filter into Weybridge, that is permanently fixed to show green. It has NEVER changed. Why put the light there on a perfectly good filter lane!
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I live near Princes Risborough .
On the road to to the station, in the last 12 months 2 sets of traffic lights have been installed .The work took AGES.
One set controls one-way working which is now applied to going under a bridge , where the raod narrows . They actually widened the pavement to make the road narrower !
The other set are where a factory entrance meets the main road, with a lane to 2 houses opposite .
In the time these lights have existed I have never seen any traffic emerge from either road. I doubt the work was done for the benefit of the people in the houses , but I wonder if it was done for the factory- in which case did they pay for it?
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Peak Traffic signals. On the Cobham turn off roundabout over the A3 a perfectly useable roundabout was fitted with Peak traffic lights not operated by road sensors but just timed. The result was huge jams, made worse by the fact these lights became full time monsters.
I have never understood any logic behind the installation of traffic lights at roundabouts - surely, they simply defeat the free-flowing object of roundabouts?
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