Dieselhead - there was no bluing or surafce damage to the journal (except for shrapnel damage)
The big end cap was almost flat, signifying a major failure in this area. I reckon it just cracked.
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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Scary! Mine is coming up for 110K miles, but its the older D8A XUD9TE type with no EGR or cat. Fingers crossed all will be ok.
I think it is a pretty rare event for these to fail so badly, think of the 5 million XUD's that were made and these failures now seem a bit rare. It may be possible to find the source, the 306 has a build number on the NS suspension turret, I wonder if the build numbers of the failed cars are within a short sequence of each other (or even the same) it could be possible to determine if its a manufacturing/assembly fault. If not it could be down to neglected services and sludging of the oil as previously mentioned?
Also, I'm not sure if it would have any significance, but my Peugeot parts CD's show two different types of crankshaft for this engine, an 'undercut' type crank and one that is not 'undercut'.
(Just checked the CD again, from build number 7602 they changed the big end shells, I know its speculation...)
Ross
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A company I worked for up to a few years ago were doing an engine development project for Peugeot and there were a few surprises if my memory serves me correct.
When they measured up batches of engine components supplied direct from Peugoet, many were not within tolerance when compared to Peugeot drawings.
They also had several standard spec engine failures with engines running in test cells. It was found that if the engine revs were dropped from high rpm with light or no load from the dyno, large amounts of oil were drawn into the engine. It was said that fitted to a car these engines would normally have the inertia of the car to slow down engine de-acceleration which would prevent this happening. Peugeot always denied any knowledge of this, but a visiting French engineer sort of admitted that he had heard of it before.
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"It was found that if the engine revs were dropped from high rpm with light or no load from the dyno, large amounts of oil were drawn into the engine."
So, I wonder if the MOT smoke test would trigger this?
Full revs, no load and then quickly back to idle speed.
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I should have said that this was a 2 litre petrol engine developement. However no doubt certain technologies and practices are shared.
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Just a thought, wonder if it could be an over revving issue ie 2nd gear selected instead of 4th now as amount of damage shown in DL's photo would suggest engine was doing major revs when the con rod failed. Faulty or incorrectly set rev governor.
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Disconnected my EGR when this problem first came up. According to a French website at the time, they thought that excessive thermal cycling caused by EGR during stop start driving caused part of the precombustion chamber to disintigrate into the cylinder, taking out the piston and / or conrod.
Seems strange that the problem is most common on 306s give the number of other PSA group cars with engines of this vintage.
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The EGR theory does fit Edward, but the engine in question exhibited no piston crown damage. I still have the remains of the piston crown somewhere, I will try to get a picture of it, out of interest.
This failure WAS NOT attributable to a missed or incorrect gear selection - I spoke to the owner, first hand. Was driving along the A4 Portway in towards Bristol City Centre @ 40mph in 3rd gear, accelerating.
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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Way ahead of me there! I guess a manufacturing fault then. Anybody want to by a 98R 306DT with 59994 miles?
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Sorry for double posting - I just posted this on another older thread, but it looks like its better placed here. Oh - and I did an oil change 2 weeks ago, earlier than specified, so this engine was not neglected oil-wise.
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I've just had my 1999 Pug 306 Engine blow up this afternoon. As you have all said, it's a Turbo Diesel with a number starting DHY600... No.4 Con-Rod through the block and sump. Car just approaching 60,000 miles, 2 hours into my journey, doing 70mpg on the M5 at the time :-(
Has anyone had any joy with pursuing Peugeot for what is most certainly a design or manufacturing fault??
I'm going to try and find an older engine to re-build and fit. I also have a 1995 306TD (my car, the '99 is my wife's) which has done 140,000 miles and that engine is nothing short of fantastic!!
Many thanks to those who set up this forum ...
Best wishes,
Simon
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Hello
I am sorry to hear about what you have been through.Sadly I had to endure an engine failure this week while i was travelling on the M3 at 70miles/hour.The no3 con rod came through the engine destroying the engine,radiator and the gearbox bell housing. I drive a 306 td 1998. it was serviced the previous week and had a cam belt change also what a waste of money???????
the car has only done 51000miles. I will never buy a peugeot"french crap" again. I appreciate if any body can provide info on where I can buy a second hand engine from a reputable supplyer. I would like to highlight that ebngine code is dhy and xudte also
Many thanks
Dieselpug
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My 96 1.9td ZX has done 127k and still life. Touch wood !!
It uses the same engine although they modified them about 97/98 for emission controls.
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Firstly, my condolences to all that have suffered from this problem. PSA have treated their customers very badly in not admitting to the problem. But for the fact that they produce by far the best small affordable diesel engines, they would not get any more of my money.
I have been told (I can't remember by whom) that this problem was caused by an engine build error, and that con-rods for the naturally aspirated diesel were fitted to some of the turbocharged engines. As this latter engine requires stronger rods, the failures were almost inevitable. If this is the case, then the failure mode would probably be one of fatigue. It's very difficult to correlate this type of problem with engine mileage, but one possibility is that rods will fail earlier in engines which accelerate and decelerate frequently (town use), and later on vehicles used at constant speed on motorways.
Has anyone else heard of the "wrong con-rods" theory? 659.
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Similar has happened with a famous German brand and their model nicknamed "The rod bender and head buster". Fortunately the car owner was given a new engine on the guarantee.
The dealer was very tight-lipped about what the problem was but they did ask "Have you been driving through water?" AFAIK the car is still running well so one can surmise that the replacement engine has stronger rods.
Good quality rods are forged from vanadium steel. The Vanadium powder usually comes from Russia in wooden barrels. Skilful alloying and forging can produce rods that have an extremely low failure rate.
When bad batches of rods fail in large numbers one does have to wonder whether they were made from recycled rebar.
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The dealer was very tight-lipped about what the problem was but they did ask "Have you been driving through water?" AFAIK the car is still running well so one can surmise that the replacement engine has stronger rods.
Good quality rods are forged from vanadium steel. The Vanadium powder usually comes from Russia in wooden barrels. Skilful alloying and forging can produce rods that have an extremely low failure rate.
When bad batches of rods fail in large numbers one does have to wonder whether they were made from recycled rebar.
'Wading' through floods risks submerging the engine's air intake and drawing water into the cylinders and being subject to the compression stroke. Water being, for practical purposes, incompressible this results in something giving way.
Conrod as likely as anything.
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>the car has only done 51000miles. I will never buy a peugeot "french crap" again<.
While this is a normal and understandable reaction, please remember that it is based on a statistically insignificant sample of one (or at most a few). Lots of drivers (including me) have owned many Pugs without any major problems. You can switch to another maker and have just the same luck as before!
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Yes, i have heard of the faulty batch of con rods theory. It sounds possible, but are they actually interchangeable?
I would like to know just how many xuds have met their end in this way.I have to agree with Andrew T though and say i have never had these sorts of problems, i think they must be rare and those unfortunate enough to be affected seem to go straight to internet forums and let the world know, while the millions of satisfied people keep quiet!
I am anticipating that my friends 306 will meet the same end soon as it is a 98 306 with a dhy build code and it has now gone 18k without an oil change! asking for trouble.
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Blimey - and it's still happening.....surely there will come a point when all the bad ones will be weeded out?
Whatever PSA have done to keep a lid on this, it's worked.
So it seems the MG Rover (Bury our heads in the sand and deny all whilst Land Rover admit the problem....) "We don't have a problem with our K Series engine blowing head gaskets" CAN work?!
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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Last thursday at 80mph on the M55 my engine did this.
Unfortuneatly the guy who was driving behind me at the time is claiming off my insurance because the parts that shot out damaged his car. So not only did the car write itself off but I'm losing all my NCB over it. Just spent a fortune on sorting out bits and bobs on it too fuel pump, timing belt, suspension etc etc
It was on 71K at the time, regular serving, mainly motorway miles. I'd only owned it 6 months in fact still paying off the loan for it!!
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Considering there are several cars of the Peugeot and Citroen range which are powered by this engine, I only seem ho hear about this happening to 306 TDs, other than one 406 on another site. I've never heard about it happening to the likes of the Xantia, ZX, Xsara or Pug 806's of the same age. Is this because most of the DHY coded engines are fitted to the 306?
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The Xantia, 406 and 806 etc had the DHX engine and not the DHY. Also the ZX was only fitted with the D8A engine too I think. That leaves the Xsara, which definatly had a DHY, so anybody with a failed Xsara out there??
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That would explain it. So if ever buy (doubt I will) a 306TD of that age, I'll check first to see if the engine is a DHY and if so I'll walk away. Couldn't be doing with conrod failure- sounds awful from what I've read and worse still, Peugeot dealers don't seem interested. Fortunately my 1994 306 XRdt seems to be chugging along nicely at the moment (touch wood) so I've no worries about conrod failure.
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The DHY engine replaced the D8A engine in about 1996 / 1997, main differences being EGR and a cat. Also, the earlier (and slightly more powerful) D8A engine could have a Bosch or Lucas injection pump, whereas the DHY only had a Lucas pump. Your 1994 car will most probably have the D8A lump so you will be safe I expect!!
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