Ford Mondeo III (2000 - 2007) - TDCI 130 overcooling

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Sun 29 Feb 2004 17:44
TDCI 130 overcooling - teejayem
My tdci engine takes between 10 and 15 miles [from a cold start] to reach nornmal on the temp gauge if I drive at a steady 60mph but if I drive below 45mph the gauge never gets above quarter scale. The ford dealer has changed the thermostat and confirmed the temp gauge is indicating correctly i.e. the engine runs at only 65 degrees and the thermostat is only designed to start opening at 71 degrees. Also if I put the heater fan on above speed 3 the engine gradually cools down to below quarter on the gauge. The dealer says these engines run cold!! I'm tired of having cold feet. Any ideas people.

Subject line brought up to date with drop down menu thingies.

Edited by Pugugly on 13/12/2008 at 21:53

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Sun 29 Feb 2004 19:05
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - Ivor E Tower
First thought is try another dealer! OK so diesels can take much longer than petrols to warm up, but if the heater fan is enough to cause the coolant temp to drop significantly then thereis something wrong.
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Sun 29 Feb 2004 20:03
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - wemyss
If you go to tinyurl.com/2cb72 which is on the Mondeo owners forum this appears to be a common issue and supplementary heating has been discussed.
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Sun 29 Feb 2004 20:48
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - trancer
Are you willing to experiment with a windblocker of some sort over the radiator?. Large diesel trucks have these to increase engine temps during winter, you could try using some cardboard or tinfoil placed over the front of the radiator to partially block windflow.
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Mon 1 Mar 2004 18:53
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - teejayem
alvin, thanks for the info of the mondeo web site i have done a few searches but somehow not found it before. i'm contacting mr ford to see what he says.
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Mon 1 Mar 2004 20:35
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - NARU
My BMW 330d has a 'kettle' plumbed into the cooling system to warm the coolant to prevent this sort of problem - modern diesels are so efficient they take a long time to warm. Yours does sound excessive though!

One option is to fit a webasto pre-heater. You can programme it to come on half an hour before you go out to the car - lovely in weather like this as the engine and interior are pre-warmed, ice melted etc. It runs off diesel from the tank!
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Thu 25 Mar 2004 07:49
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - NeilT
If I sat stationary in my old Leon TDi with the heater on full the temp gauge would drop from 88 degrees back down to 65 degrees if it was cold out side, thats normal.


Neil T
Mondeo Ghia TDCi 130 Estate, SEAT Toledo 20VT Sport, Various Montegos...
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Mon 1 Mar 2004 21:18
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - Civic8
Is this a recent problem.or has it been like it since you first bought it.and has your mpg dropped with the problem ie not doing so well to the gallon?
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Tue 2 Mar 2004 19:58
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - teejayem
Mech1, it happened suddenly after owning the car for about 14 months. The car was always slightly slow to warm up but it used to get up to half scale on the gauge after about 5 miles, whether I drove at 60 or 25 mph. Yes MPG is slightly down [approx 5 mpg]. There is another strange symptom which is that the radiator gets hot before the temp gauge gets to quarter scale. The thermostat is not opening [the pipe from it to the rad is stone cold] but hot water is getting to the rad via a small hose which comes from somewhere on the engine.I can't see where without taking off the engine undertray.

I've read all the contributions from the other message postings to this problem, for which I'm grateful but don't expect to have to fit any mods to my essentially new car just to get the engine hot.
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Tue 2 Mar 2004 20:42
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - Civic8
There is another strange symptom which is that the radiator gets hot before the temp gauge gets to quarter scale... I would put that down to sender unit failing.The small hose will be breather expansion tube to expansion tank.
I would have thought that if the system was backflowing which is a poss you would overheat not over cool.But as you said no heat on hose to rad would assume as you said thermostat is at fault not uncommon.would suggest both temp guage sender unit and thermostat be replaced.if the sender is giving false info to the ecu it will not give correct fuel consumption.hope that helps?
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Tue 2 Mar 2004 21:50
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - Aprilia
Buy an infra-red non-contact thermometer on eBay (cost £18-20 new) like the 'TN1'. Then do a bit of detective work. Point at various bits of cooling system and note the temperatures.
Does sound like a duff t/stat, but the above tests will confirm.
It has been very cold lately though - so do expect longer warm-up!
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Sat 6 Mar 2004 18:37
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - teejayem
Have monitored temp with IR thermometer and verified the engine side of the thermostat housing never gets above 65 degrees. Dealer tells me the thermostat should start to open at 71 degrees and I can confirm the thermostat is not opening as the big water pipe between it and the radiator remains cold even after a 50 mile run. However the rad is hot and is being fed via a small hose from somewhere around the oil filter area.
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Fri 5 Mar 2004 21:52
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - GRF
I bought a 10 month old mondeo tdci 130 estate and it has exactly the same problem. It takes ages to heat up and then cools down on tick over. We also struggle to get 40 to the gallon. Local ford agent has downloaded further information into the car 3 times but this has not solved the problem but they say that there is no fault. They even had the car overnight so that they could run it from cold, and they didn't think it took an excessive amount of time to warm up. I know what you mean about cold feet!!
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Sat 6 Mar 2004 18:30
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - teejayem
Sorry to hear you have this problem but also pleased I'm not the only one. My car is going in to the main dealer this wed so will up date you on what they say. I've been in touch with Ford, they say wait until main dealer has assessed the car and then get in touch if I'm still not happy.
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Wed 3 Mar 2004 10:13
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - Chas{P}
Got some information on the strategy of Mondeo cooling systems:

Thermal Control

At higher engine temperatures the mechanical efficiency of the engine is improved by the reduction in friction; fuel consumption falls and the exhaust emission (CO and HC) is reduced. Therefore the coolant thermostat with expansion element is set to ensure an operating temperature of 98º C; the usual temperature is 80º to 90º C. At full load, however, when much heat is generated which must be dissipated, this temperature would be too high and damage could result. Consequently Ford engineers have developed an electric heating resistor to the expansion element. This way the expansion element is heated only at full engine load to simulate a higher temperature level. The thermostat then opens sooner or wider and the operating temperature is reduced down to 80º C.

The above I know for sure is used on petrol engines and the same system is probably used on the TDCi. Will confirm later.

The problem you have could be a PCM calibration or sensor fault defaulting to a full cooling strategy IMO.

HTH

Charles

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Wed 3 Mar 2004 23:26
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - Altea Ego
Airlock?
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Thu 4 Mar 2004 21:54
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - cheddar
I have a TDCi 130 Ghia X, it reaches just under half on the gauge within 5 or 6 miles then stays there. The problem I have is that in cold weather even when set on 16 deg C (except for "Low" the lowest temp setting) the climate control chucks out roasting hot air for the first 10 or 15 mins of driving until it settles down.

I am not convinced by climate control, seems to me to make more sence to control the temp of the air that enters the car and not the temp of the air within the car.

Oh for a gentle stream of warm air on the feet on a cold winter morning.

Regards.
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Sat 6 Mar 2004 11:19
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - googolplex
Seems sensible then to turn off the climate control - don't need it in this weather anyway. I only use a/c about once monthly in mine just to keep it ticking over.

Mine (130 Estate Ghia) has always taken a while to warm up - won't reach optimum temp until travelling fairly freely on A-roads or Motorway (but then this has been true of all my diesel cars in the past). Never really had a problem with temperature - if it gets cold, I just turn temp up. Have never noticed that reduce the engine temp, but if I'm in stop/start traffic and its cold outside, the engine temp gauge does reduce to about quarter (rather than just under half).
Splodgeface
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Sun 7 Mar 2004 08:13
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - DL
I wonder if the thermostat was acutally replaced?

71 degrees is a good 10 degrees cooler than I would expect to see..
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Sun 7 Mar 2004 12:17
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - cheddar
Re splodgeface, the principal of the Climate Control system (as per my Ghia X and your Ghia) is to control the temp of the air within the car rather than the temp of the air coming into the car, this is irrespective of whether the system is on auto or the aircon is on or off. Therefore on a cold day the system blasts hot air until the min temp of 16 deg is reached. Like wise on a hot day it blasts cold air until the set temp is reached.

I think, on balance, I prefer a manual air con system (as per the Zetec etc Mondeos) where the rotary temp controls adjust the temp of the air coming into the car.
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Sun 7 Mar 2004 20:25
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - kurnal
I had a similar problem to this in the early autumn which I think I reported on either a misfire thread or other tdci problem on the Mondeo enthusiasts group forum.
As I remember the problem in my case started with a ecu software upgrade designed to resolve the part throttle misfire problem. I think this was last October. This new version of the software caused the temp gauge to start doing funny things and to fluctuate around the cold mark most of the time. The problem dissapeared and never returned after a subsequent upgrade last November and after about 4-5 miles has run at the normal position ever since. The misfire was completely cured a couple of weeks later when the egr valve was replaced.

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Sat 13 Mar 2004 17:32
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - teejayem
The Ford Main dealer has had the car for 48hrs and agrees with my diagnosis. They have reported it to Ford who advised them they have received a great many complaints about this. However, it would appear they do not have a fix for it and are unlikely to. The fault [they call it an indication] is not safety related. Apparently they consider that if the car gets hot eventually and the temperature gauge reads somewhere between 1/4 and 3/4 scale then that is OK.

However, I have found that things are improved a bit if I switch the climate control off completely for the first 4 miles, The engine then seems to get up to temp more quickly and the heater definately seems hotter. The drawback is that you get no air flow into the car for the first 4 miles of a journey.

Good design these 2004 Ford cars eh. This is my 3rd Mondeo, will I buy a fourth? Not unless they fix this one in the next few months.

My advice to all who experience this problem is report it to ford via their web site so you have a record of it. I've already done this and they issue you with a report number, tel number and e-mail address to contact them.

Now I wonder if BBC WatchDog would be interested!
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Sat 13 Mar 2004 18:25
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - googolplex
I have followed this thread with interest teejayem. I think I understand your frustration (?) but, on balance, have to conclude that I'm rather with Ford on this one. All my diesels, Ford and other makes, have taken longer to warm up. My tdci doesn't reach optimum temp, like yours, until I'm doing a consistent 60, or if I'm working the car harder and this, again, is at least 10 miles into a journey. But I do start getting some warm air after 2 miles or so. Its never really bothered me and, I get the impression from your observations that you also eventually get warm.
Just takes longer, thats all. So long as its not doing the engine harm, I'm not that worried. Its certainly no reason to ditch the marque. A great car IMO.
Splodgeface
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Sun 14 Mar 2004 13:50
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - quizman
My wife's Focus TDCi takes far too long to warm up. It helps a bit if the air distribution switch is not on the screen only part, as this does not start the air con,which sets the electric fans going.
I have complained to Ford, who say that they are all like this.
So we are back to having no heaters to speak of, just like the old days. What progress!

My Passat 130 TDI warms up much more quickly, and goes much better and uses less diesel.

I wish I had bought my wife a diesel Golf.
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Sun 14 Mar 2004 19:26
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - cheddar
Your Focus will run rings round a Golf on the back roads, and a Mondeo will run rings around your Passat too. The TDI engine in the Golf is transeverse and less refined than the Passat.

That being said the new Golf is supposed to be refined and drive well, though there will be a new Focus for it to contend with shortly.
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Mon 15 Mar 2004 19:33
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - teejayem
Thanks for your interest but I have to disagree;
Firstly, for the first 14 months of it's life the engine warmed up within 4 to 6 miles [which I consider slow anyway] and only started the current 10 to 15 mile warm up after a software upgrade last Oct, today the air temp was 13 degrees and it still took 12 miles; other TDCI's on our company pool warm up within the 4 to 6 miles which mine used to achieve.
Secondly, I've had 6 diesel cars in the last 15 years [Montego, Volvo 940, Peugot, Mondeo Di, Rover 800, Discovery] and all warmed up to normal within 3 miles of a cold start.
I have yet to come across a car which when its up to temp then cools down to almost zero on the scale if you slow down or put the heater is put on high. Unless that is the thermostat is U/S [mine stat is OK as it does not open].
A cold running diesel engine will not return such a good mpg [which I am experincing - down 5 to 8 mpg on what it was] and will suffer more wear and oil sludging.
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Mon 15 Mar 2004 19:52
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - kurnal
Hey TJM it sounds like you have the same rogue software that I had installed last autumn and reported above. My car responded in exactly the same way as yours is doing. That version of software was very quickly superceded by a later version - suggest you press your dealer to check your version. As I said above we had a thread about it on the mondeo enthusiast group forum at the time.
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Tue 16 Mar 2004 05:39
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - kal
Do Ford sell these cars in Northern Europe (Norway , Sweden etc), if so what modifications are made?
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Wed 17 Mar 2004 06:54
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - cheddar
Of course they sell them in Nordic, though I don't think the problem these guys are experiencing are chareteristic, more a fault that should be able to be addressed by the dealer.
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Thu 18 Mar 2004 00:10
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - madmondeoman
My Mondeo also took a long time to warm up needing 10-15 miles before the heater would be hot.Mentioned this to Ford Technician when car examined but did not show any interest. I hope you have a lot of patience if you contact Ford as they seem very good at ignoring questions and replying to letters with no answers but a lot of B.S.It took 10 months, after the fuel pump disintergrated, to get the car right when a new engine was fitted.
I quickly sold it and now have a petrol Toyota Avensis.Best of luck.
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Thu 25 Mar 2004 07:46
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - NeilT
My New TDCi 130 takes about 3-4 miles to warm up in this recent cold weather. Thats about 1-2 miles quicker than my old Leon TDi.
Knowing that diesels can take a while to warm up I ordered heated front seats on mine amongst other things, problem solved :-)

Cheers
Neil T
Mondeo Ghia TDCi 130 Estate, SEAT Toledo 20VT Sport, Various Montegos...
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Thu 25 Mar 2004 12:07
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - kal
Niel, what sort of mpg are you getting, ....thanks
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Thu 25 Mar 2004 15:40
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - NeilT
My first tank worked out at 42.5mpg, based on acualy fuel used, not the trip computer, not bad considering my first tank in the Leon was 39.4mpg.


Neil T
Mondeo Ghia TDCi 130 Estate, SEAT Toledo 20VT Sport, Various Montegos...
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Sat 13 Dec 2008 21:37
ford mondeo tdci 130 overcooling - Atle
Yes these cars are sold in Norway, but here they have a extra heater who helps the engin to keep up the heat, the extra heater goes on diesel and starts automaticly when the engin not is abel to keep the temperatur over 82 deegres or something like that. I live in the north of norway and i have a 04 mondeo 130tdci and my car have big problems to keep up the engin temp when i`m driving in 80km/h on flat good roads, it can`t even hold the temp needle in "normal", but then when i am driving up hill the needle rises up to the middel of "normal" and when the road is flat again the needle sinks down again! The deelership is not able to find out whats wrong, they have changst the thermostat to the coolingwater and the thermostat to the oilcooler but the car si not changst!!

I don`t think they know what to do now, but i am not giving up yet!!

Atle.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 14/12/2008 at 01:16

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Sat 13 Dec 2008 22:00
TDCI 130 overcooling - gandaulf
it could be the SECOND thermostat playing up also known as the oil cooler stat
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Sun 14 Dec 2008 12:23
TDCI 130 overcooling - quizman
Whatever happened to Aprilia? I miss him.
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Tue 26 May 2009 02:39
TDCI 130 overcooling - dieselpower
Its the second thermostat thats causing the problem its located beside the waterpump held in with a 10 or 8mm bolt, ive a post done on stdrivers on how to change it and the part number for the thermostat if i find it ill post the link for you
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Tue 30 Nov 2010 16:50
TDCI 130 overcooling - -Rod

I have a 53 plate TDCI Ghia X Estate (130 PS) and it exibits the exact same symptoms as described which is why I was looking for info and found this forum (Hello all)

Mine started last week and coincidently I was talking to a friend who has a Jaguar (re-clothed Mondeo ?) and he is having the same problem and was lead to believe it was likely to be the oil cooler stat also.

Symptoms are:

Drive 6 miles (urban) before the engine warms up at all.

Drive a little more "spiritedly" and the heat builds quicker but only just gets past 60 degs.

If stop in traffic the temp. bizzarely drops :-?

There is some heat coming from the heated but not that much.

Can anyone confirm what may be the correct course of action? Change water stat, change oil stat?

Water level in the coolant system is fine.

Also does anyone have a source for an engine diagram at all?

My water stat would appear to be on the right hand side of the engine near the top (looking from the front of the car) A cursory inspection (currently -6degs. so I'm not keen on hanging around) seems to reveal 3 hoses at this juncture which feed into a ceramic / plastic union (possible stat housing?)

Can I replace one or both of the stats and gaskets only or do I need to source a whole mounting unit too?

Thanks for any advice,

-Rod

Edited by -Rod on 30/11/2010 at 16:52

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Tue 30 Nov 2010 18:23
TDCI 130 overcooling - fordman1

I am having exactly the same problem with mine

'2004 Zetec TDCi 130'

Before the bitterly cold weather, the temp gauge used to rise to about 1/4 of the way up, after around 6 miles, now, the gauge probably goes 2mm past 60 deg, and thats it!

I changed the water thermostat a couple of weeks ago, it made no difference whatsoever.

I have not changed the 'oil cooler thermostat' yet.

It appears that the Jaguar X type diesel (this is a TDCi engine) also suffers from the same overcooling problem, Jaguar made a revised oil thermostat that opens at a higher temperature, but I dont know if this part will fit the Mondeo or not? If it does, it would be great.

All I know is that the part number for the Jaguar Oil Stat is '02JD61162'

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Tue 30 Nov 2010 20:10
TDCI 130 overcooling - -Rod

I've conducted an experiment tonight...

I left the car to cool then went back to it and having removed the engine cover I started the car.

I went to the engine bay and monitored (put hands on ;-0 ) the water outlet before the stat. and on the flow to the radiator side. 10 secs and a definate heating was evident on the flow-side folloed a minute later on the radiator side. So I would say my water stat is OK too?????

So does anyone have any incling as to where this blessed oil stat is and what's involved in changing the darn thing or indeed is there a way to test it without removal?

Thanks again,

-Rod

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Tue 30 Nov 2010 20:26
TDCI 130 overcooling - fordman1

Here is a link to a set of illustrated instructions on changing the 'Oil Cooler Thermostat'.

http://www.jackthom.freeserve.co.uk/thermostat.pdf

As I said I have not done this yet. hth

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Tue 30 Nov 2010 20:35
TDCI 130 overcooling - -Rod

That's great. :-)

Thanks for taking the time to assist.

I'll most likely carry out this task but not until I can rig a shelter over the car or weather improves.

Thanks again,

Rod

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Tue 21 Dec 2010 22:32
TDCI 130 overcooling - philthespudman

I thought I'd pass on my experience with a my 'cool running' Mondeo. Last winter I had the same problem with the car not warming up properly and changed the main thermostat for a non genuine item. (the Ford one is around £50!!!) This made no difference whatsoever. The weather warmed up soon after and as I wasn't cold any more I gave up. Then came the current cold spell and the problem remained so I bit the bullet and bought a genuine one, no change and fifty quid worse off.

Looking on various forums I discovered the second oil cooler thermostat and bought one from Mr Ford. (just under £20) After fitting it this afternoon my temperature gauge runs smack in the middle and the heater is toasty, yipeeee!!!

The hose that exits from the oil cooler enters the radiator on the right hand side about 1/3 of the way up and should remain cold until the engine is warm, mine was warm all the time so was taking heat from the engine to the radiator even though the main thermostat was closed. When I removed the old oil cooler stat and blew down it it was open even though it was cold. I would guess that to eliminate the second stat as a cause of over cooling the hose from the oil cooler to the rad could be temporarily clamped with a brake pipe clamp or similar to simulate the stat being fully closed,

I hope this helps someone else to stay warm this winter, good luck!

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Fri 4 Feb 2011 09:34
TDCI 130 overcooling - bluegenie
I to have exactly the same problem as this but on my jaguar which is the same engine

I have replaced both thermostats and the fault is still there

Surely someone must have the answer to this common fault

Engine takes ages to heat up
Engine cools down in traffic
Cabin heater cools the engine down
No pressure in the expansion tank only cold water
fuel ecconomy down

come on ford and jag experts help us out

GC
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