Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault?

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Thu 3 Aug 2023 22:43
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - Davedrives

Hi,

Hoping for some advice on a recent car accident on the motorway.

I was driving at around 60mph due to the wet weather conditions, whilst in the middle lane a car overtook me doing well over 70mph. About 30 seconds later, whilst now in the right lane and going around a slight bend, I suddenly see debris in the road and start to brake. As I get closer I then see that there is a car stopped in the right lane and a coach stopped in the middle lane, I continue to brake harder but due to the wet weather conditions, debris in the road and the sudden stop (no hazards from either), I crash in to the back of the car in the right lane at, what I would estimate, about 20-30mph. This is of course the car that just sped past me. The coach had stopped in the middle lane as I assume he had seen this happen, but unfortunately this meant I couldn't swerve out of the way either.

No major injuries to either party thankfully, however after speaking with the driver he says that he aquaplaned, lost control and span out, hit the central resevation with the front left of the car and did a full 360, ending up halfway on the gravel in the central area and halfway in the right lane. He admitted fault and apologised several times at the scene, including infront of the police. The coach driver called the police but didn't stick around to obtain the contact details for a witness, I'm currently chasing this up.

My insurance have advised that regardless of the speed, lack of visibility, debris in the road, other driver speeding (no evidence of this) or him crashing, I am still at fault for going in to the back of him.

After reading a few things online it does seem that majority of these cases are ruled in favour of the car infront, but I didn't know if anyone here had any other advice or an experience similar?

Sorry for the long read, any help would be very much appreciated.

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Thu 3 Aug 2023 22:57
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - Adampr

I would tend to agree with the insurance company. You should be driving at a speed where you can stop without hitting anyone regardless of what they do. Nobody does, especially on the motorway, and especially in the rain, but that's what you're supposed to do.

The above applies to your car. For the other car, I suppose it would depend on how much damage you did and how much was already done. If it was already a write off, which you would expect in a collision at 70+ mph, I can't see how you piling into the back matters.

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Fri 4 Aug 2023 09:12
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - bathtub tom
My insurance have advised that regardless of the speed, lack of visibility, debris in the road, other driver speeding (no evidence of this) or him crashing, I am still at fault for going in to the back of him.

The insurer makes the decision. I think you'll have to accept it.

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Fri 4 Aug 2023 09:25
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - Bromptonaut

Running into the back of somebody is pretty much always going to be your fault.

Wet conditions and reduced visibility due to spray and topography are reasons to slow down so that you can stop witihn the road you can see.

Some places on the M/way system are notorious for stops/slows where visibility is restricted.

The M1 southbound near Luton is a cracking example. Carriageway bears left in a way that my UK standards is tight and starts to climb. Even without anything stopped you can have a brown trouser moment with slow lorries.

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Fri 4 Aug 2023 09:34
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - Andrew-T

Wet conditions and reduced visibility due to spray and topography are reasons to slow down so that you can stop within the road you can see.

In traffic the brown trouser effect is increased by the equal worry about being rear-ended yourself because you have slowed down.

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Fri 4 Aug 2023 09:43
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - Bromptonaut

In traffic the brown trouser effect is increased by the equal worry about being rear-ended yourself because you have slowed down.

An interesting one; a lot of people are seized by that fear. Was on a Driving Improvement Course about ten years ago having passed a red light - 'read through' to next set and didn't see it change to amber.

Two other people admitted shooting the same light - on a gyratory in Leicester - deliberately out of fear of being tail ended.

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Fri 4 Aug 2023 10:24
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - sammy1

Running for long periods particularly on MWays gives a false sense of speed. When you come off the slip road it can feel like you are at walking pace until you adapt. The accident you describe happens all to often even in the dry. It can be a night mare driving on a busy motorway and there is stopping and starting just due to the knock on affect perhaps a mile down the road of someone braking. The only way the insurance company can look at this is your fault. Just one of the reasons we need insurance as we are all capable of making your mistake. A couple of seconds reacting sooner or a dry road and no accident. The chap going past over the speed limit is normal perhaps not right but you can do nothing about it

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Fri 4 Aug 2023 12:21
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - Gibbo_Wirral

In traffic the brown trouser effect is increased by the equal worry about being rear-ended yourself because you have slowed down.

An interesting one; a lot of people are seized by that fear. Was on a Driving Improvement Course about ten years ago having passed a red light - 'read through' to next set and didn't see it change to amber.

Two other people admitted shooting the same light - on a gyratory in Leicester - deliberately out of fear of being tail ended.

I've jumped the lights just as they've hit red a couple of times in the past, based entirely on looking in my rear view mirror at the car behind, their distance, speed and unlikeliness to stop without hitting me.

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Fri 4 Aug 2023 10:26
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - Davedrives

Thank you all for your responses, I thought as much but always worth asking. Appreciate your help.

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Fri 4 Aug 2023 15:32
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - Gerry Sanderson

There is a stated case Scott v Warren which held running into the back of someone is not automatically due care depends on what warning there was before hand. Unpredicted load fell of lorry, car behind braked and one behind ran into it.

Your case goes bit more re weather and wet road when more care should be taken.

Nevertheless try Ins CO with Scott v Warren?

dvd

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Fri 4 Aug 2023 16:23
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - KJP 123

I think that Scott v Warren was about whether there was a case for careless driving against the driver behind rather than insurance liability.

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Fri 4 Aug 2023 17:08
Vauxhall Astra - Who's at fault? - Adampr

I think that Scott v Warren was about whether there was a case for careless driving against the driver behind rather than insurance liability.

Yes, Scott v Warren really only sets a precedent that you can't be charged with a criminal offence by applying a more stringent measure than for a civil case. So, if you rear-end someone and are found not to be at fault, you can't then be prosecuted for careless driving.

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