Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Curious T

Thanks for your time I'd just like some advice on a situation I'm going through...sooo years ago I bought a car for my son. I paid for it, I paid the insurance tax and mot whilst he had it . Now he was fully insured at the time but I recently got a later claiming I was in a incident and how I need to pay basically 2 thousand pounds. Now I'm at a loss because I wasn't the registered keeper of the vehicle so I wouldn't expect anything to come back to me....following this I spoke to my son and he did say that he had letters about the incident and that he hadn't got around to dealing with it yet ....eventually I took the car off him and put it in my name I just couldn't trust him out there. But overall I don't understand why I'm being held liable when I wasn't the registered keeper at the time. Isit possible the dvla or police or whoever can find out that I used to pay the cars tax bills and then hold me liable bearing in mind that my son had already received letters stating he was the owner

Any advice would be appreciated

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - bathtub tom

Whose name was on the V5 and, was it insured at the time of the incident ?

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Bromptonaut

BT's question is the starting point.

You say that a claim is being made for c£2k. Who is making the claim and where/when was the incident on which the claim is founded stated to have occurred?

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Brit_in_Germany

Without more information, it is difficult to comment. One possibility, however, is that the son is the main driver but not insured as such (known as 'fronting'). If there has been an incident and the insurance company has investigated, they could have reached the opinion that there was a breach of the conditions of insurance and they want their money back. Pure speculation though without the details.

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Curious T

Dwf group LLP is the company pursuing me

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Curious T

The person who is claiming was involved in the incident

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Brit_in_Germany

Refer the matter to the insurance company and let them deal with it.

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Curious T

My sons name was on the v5 and he was insured as I used to pay it

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - bathtub tom

My sons name was on the v5 and he was insured as I used to pay it

So were you the main driver as declared on the insurance, or your son?

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Curious T

No we had two separate policies

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - bathtub tom

You can't insure something twice. Please give us full details.

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - RT

You can't insure something twice. Please give us full details.

You can - but any payout is shared between the two insurers so you can't double up and profit.

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Bromptonaut

Putting together the facts stated so far:

  1. The OP financed a vehicle for his son.
  2. Son was the Keeper.
  3. OP and son both had separate insurance policies for the vehicle.

OP is being pursued by DWF, a UK legal practice formed out the merger of multiple local outfits. DWF are instructed by the insurer of the party claiming that they, their vehicle or other property was damaged by the vehicle at point 1. They are a serious legal business; they will not let go if they think they can recover.

My guess, I think part confirmed, is that the OP's son had failed to respond to approaches from his own insurer allowing them to move the claim on.

I suspect that the insurance industry's information sharing systems have flagged the existence of the OP's policy on the subject vehicle. Whether the OP actually has any liability at law needs professional assessment.

Starting point for the OP, as already suggested, is to get his insurer for the vehicle involved.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 14/11/2021 at 10:46

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Curious T

Thank you that's very insightful however this was years ago and I cant remember the insurers so I've requested information from the motor insurance bureau in regards to the owner at the time and the policy that I had ...in order to dispute the allegations.....as for liability I need to know more about this because I'm a 100% sure the V5 was in my sons name ..wouldn't they need actual evidence to place me at the seen or a v5 in my name ....without this and only my insurance on the vehicle they shouldn't be able to hold me liable???????????

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Andrew-T

....as for liability I need to know more about this because I'm a 100% sure the V5 was in my sons name ..wouldn't they need actual evidence to place me at the seen or a v5 in my name ....without this and only my insurance on the vehicle they shouldn't be able to hold me liable?

It seems you can't provide V5 evidence of ownership at the time of the incident. DVLA will give V5 history if you can show good reason to require it. This seems to be the case ?

Edited by Andrew-T on 15/11/2021 at 09:22

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Curious T

So sorry I forgot to mention that they are also claiming that I was uninsured and did not report the incident...although I'm also 100% sure I had a active policy at the time and I didn't have any incident to report nor was I the keeper

Any more advice would be appreciated

Thanks

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Curious T

Yes you can various people can be insured on a vehicle please advise I reference to the problem at hand

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Andrew-T

Yes you can various people can be insured on a vehicle please advise I reference to the problem at hand

It's usual for any vehicle to be insured once, but with several named drivers or with other conditions. Much less usual for a vehicle to have several insurance policies.

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Curious T

Only 2 policy's was actually cheaper than adding him to mine however please advise on issue

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - Bromptonaut

Only 2 policy's was actually cheaper than adding him to mine however please advise on issue

The fact there were two policies is unusual and may be relevant to getting things in order.

Given the facts as they are emerging I'm coming to the conclusion that this is too complex for advice given here to be useful. Worse, it may mislead.

I think Curious T needs to sit down and produce an accurate chronological account of the vehicle's history. Start with it's acquisition and end with its disposal or when it was irrevocably returned to himself so that son could no longer access it.

When and where exactly along that timeline did the alleged incident take place?

If the son was consistently the Keeper that bit should be easy. Whereabouts in the country (I'm assuming we're talking UK) was it, at all material times, kept? Who was it insured with, for whom and were there relevant restrictions such as SD&P only or, if relevant, hire & reward.

What information has your son had in terms of civil claims or intimation/charge for breaches of Road Traffic or Insurance law? He has to come clean on this.

Read through the communication from DWF. Was that the first intimation Curious received suggesting there might be some sort of claim action? What exactly are they threatening now? Is this a formal 'letter before action'? If it is it should say so explicitly.

In my experience these things are fairly formulaic and clearly particularised; the exact allegation and how it founds a claim against you shouldn't be too difficult to understand.

Right now the issue is to get a proper rounded picture; outrage or belief that they're trying it on won't help.

Once you've got all that together then seek proper advice. I'm afraid, unless you can identify an insurer of yours who was on cover at the time of the incident, you may have to pay for this.

Citizens Advice (other organisations are also available) may be able to help but other than helping you 'get your ducks in a row' this feels to me to be beyond 'Core' generalist advice.

If you want to give them a whirl the national phone number is 0800 144 8848. There may be alternative means to contact your local office - a web form for example. Use a search engine for their contact details.

Local Solicitors will of often give a short session of initial advice free of charge.

Hope this helps. Please come back and let is know how you get on.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 15/11/2021 at 10:31

Not mine anymore - Owner vs registered keeper vs driver - KJP 123

Who are DWF actually acting for; the third party, the third party’s insurer or (one of) your own? They should say. It is possible that your own insurer feels that they have paid out when they had no liability and is seeking reimbursement.