Sirs
I recently purchased an Astra 2ldti 51 plate, the car has now covered some 18k miles, and I am currently using 1ltr of oil per 1k miles. The dealer tells me that this is acceptable and that consumption will drop as the car gets more miles under its belt. Are they fobbing me off, I have heard that this 2ltr and the 2.2ltr engines have oil burning problems that Vauxhall except no responsibility for. Will the consumption slow down; semi synthetic oil is not cheap! Can I take this matter up directly with Vauxhall or would I be wasting my time?
Benjamin
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I had the same issue with a Zafira 2ldti which I assume has the same engine. It wasn't quite as dramatic though and the consumption does seem to have slowed to some degree with time. I still have to check the oil pretty regularly though and top up surprisingly frequently after 35K Km.
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Check HJ's comments on this engine. Oil takes a long time to drain back into the sump giving false dipstick readings causing you to overfill.
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It would seem that this is a common problem with 2tdi Astra engines; surely Vauxhall cannot get away with comments that this oil consumption is normal. Is there any answer out there?
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This is a common problem beyond the 2.0 - it also effects the 1.8 16v.
As the oil sump drain time is slow leave half an hour before reading oil level on level ground. The sump draining condition aids stop/start engine use - but you may find the car very rough from cold starts and occasionally sounding quite metallic.
Vauxhall dealers wil only look at claims of oil consumption over 1 ltr per 1000 miles
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Well I spoke to the Vauxhall's help desk today, that was a waste of time, all they would say is that this sort of oil consumption is expected from this engine.well it does say so in the handbook!
Is there nothing else I can do? If the handbook states that the big ends will go after 10k miles, could they get away with that?
Perhaps Honest John could do an article in the press for all of us who are suffering at the hands of Vauxhall.
Please any more help out there?
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My Vauxhall dealer did an oil check over 1000 miles last week which gave a consumption of over 1ltr usage. They went back to Vauxhall who admitted they knew of the problem on these engines, consequently I am to take the car in next week, the dealer is going to flush the engine, re fill with some other type of oil, run for 15 miles only, they will then re fill with standard oil and another treatment additive and away I go, Has anyone else been given this fix for a similar problem? Will this really do any good?
Regards Benjamin
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Benjamin, Don't let them do it.
I went or was directed to a web site a month or so ago where a owner of a Vauxhall with the same engine was given the same treatment by a main dealer.
His engine subsequently was ruined.
The owner cataloges the ensuing battle he had with Vauxhall who denied it was to do with the treatment.
He finished up in meetings with them and finally got the bottom half of his engine replaced.
This owner had a huge task to get this done and a less determined individual would have given up.
I will try and find this site late on if someone in the meantime dosn't come up with it.
regards
alvin
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I got offered the same 'treatment' for my 2000 Vectra DI, which is currently on 42K miles and uses about 0.6 litres/1000 miles. I also contacted vauxhall who also informed me it was 'within specification'. The treatment is a running-in oil, which I was not going to have put in my engine! The local dealer I go to for servicing offered to do it for free, but it was thanks but no thanks! 1 litre/1K miles is high for a relatively modern engine design, built to high tolerences. I use 5 litres of oil between 10K services which is rather annoying, but I personally will stick to topping it up rather than any engine work being carried out. I'd like to know what the actual problem is though!
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Benjamin, I have found the relevant sites.
First go to www.theukhighstreet.com/reviews/Vauxhall_R454/
read that and then go to www.zafirauk.tk/
The second one is quite a remarkable story of persistence which I have to admire.
After reading this I don't think you should be having the running in oil treatment.
alvin
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I've had a look at www.zafirauk.tk and I think you should note the comments under the "What The Dealers Say" tab. Two dealers said 1 litre per 800 miles was "Normal / Expected" and one said 1 litre per 1200 miles was "Normal / Expected". They didn't say this was some sort of maximum or limit.
Remember that flushing oil is designed to increase the wear on your engine - the idea being that worn piston rings and cylinders bed together to create a better oil seal. But it will also increase the wear in other parts of the engine - particularly the camshaft. The fifteen miles suggested by your garage might be OK, and the extra wear on the rest of the engine might only become evident after, perhaps, another ten years. But 300 miles with flushing oil will probably mean a new engine now. So you/they need to be very careful.
On this basis, I think you should heed the other BackRoomers' advice to leave well alone.
Ian
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Can I please offer my thanks to you all, yes I think I will leave well alone and continue to top up as and when required, at least I wont have to worry about further engine damage, I would imagine the cost of a new engine would buy a awful lot of oil.
Regards Benjamin
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Vauxhall 1-Punter 0 Another great result for Vauxhall!
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Oil consumption of 1 litre per 1000 miles [1] is simply not acceptable for a new car. I bet neither the dealer principal nor the service manager would find this acceptable if their own private cars were consuming this quantity of oil. I certainly wouldn't. Vauxhall also know this is unacceptable [2] but they hide behind this figure, as it would cost them too much to repair all those engines under warranty.
Benjamin, your dealer is fobbing you off. Demand a new (short) engine. Keep checking your oil consumption. You stand a better chance of getting a new engine if it uses more than 1 litre per 1000 miles. Read Mr. Simmonds' website at www.zafirauk.tk [3] carefully, including the forum, there are some good tips.
Where is the oil being lost? I agree with IanT, [4] that this oil is being burnt because the piston rings and the cylinder bores have not bedded-in properly.
Why have the piston rings not bedded-in properly? Several possible reasons, but the most common is incorrect finish on the cylinder bores after machining. I.e. a faulty manufacturing process. (Another cause is not adhering to the proper running-in procedure, thrashing the car from zero miles can glaze the bores producing the same effect).
Will the oil consumption improve over time? If the car has done more than 10k miles then, in my experience, I would not anticipate a marked improvement in oil consumption.
What does this running-in oil do? This is a specially formulated oil, which allows accelerated engine wear to take place. Not the sort of thing I would want to put in my new car. [5] The dealers are trying to allow some wear to take place in the bores so the rings bed-in and seal properly. It is a cheap thing for them to try. But it doesn?t seem to work.
How should this problem be permanently fixed? A replacement short engine built to the latest standards would satisfy me. And I would want to have written confirmation of the build date.
The slow draining of the oil back into the sump just confounds the issue causing owners to over-fill the sump and thus further worsen the oil consumption.
Do not confuse running-in oil and flushing oil - they are very different. Flushing oil is high in detergent and used for internal cleaning.
CMark
[1] This figure is the government determined maximum acceptable oil consumption figure.
[2] As it seems they have modified the engine for the 2003 models.
[3] Great link, Alvin.
[4] From what I read here and at www.zafirauk.tk
[5] I did not even use it when rebuilding my 150k mile V8 engine in my rally Range Rover.
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Particularly when Halfords have a current offer of £10 for 5 litres of 10-40 of Semi.
BUT offer is supposed to end tomorrow.
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lan,
you mention flushing oil causing wear to the engine, what is the best way to flush an engine?, say you buy a car that hasn't had regular oil changes, gummed up breather pipes etc, what would be the best way to clean??.
Duggie
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As a Technician, I read with great interest the comments on this page. 1 ltre of oil per 1k IS well within acceptable boundaries.
(Manufacturers quote 350 miles per pint minimum). Engines- in particular Diesel's- are designed to use oil to keep engine wear down. A modern diesel engine will last 250k even if it uses oil- against the old adage 'well, 20 years ago cars just didn't use oil' however they didn't last half as long. There are also other cosiderations to look at- do you do stop-starts? do you drive less than 20 miles per day? A very important thing is that modern day drivers who are used to driving petrols drive diesels the same way. Diesels MUST be driven harder to stop the bores 'glazing'.
Hope this helps.
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>>1 ltre of oil per 1k IS well within acceptable boundaries.
Acceptable...to who? Not me.
MM
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Sticking to the subject of flushing oil. When flushing oil is used for its usual purpose (internal engine cleaning), typical recommendations are something like, "Allow engine to tick over for about 20 minutes before draining". This should allow the detergents to have an effect without too much wear on the engine.
But in Benjamin's case, we want to induce accelerated wear in the cylinders. 15 miles at a steady pace (no high revs) might, at a guess, be the equivalent of double the wear of 20 minutes at tickover. This might be the right compromise for the engine - provided you can trust the mechanic not to exceed 3000 rpm - which is taking a lot on trust.
I wonder if Vauxhall have tested this.
It's just possible the garage might have intended to use "running-in" oil, rather than flushing oil. But this would be a waste of time, because running-in oil is designed to stay in an engine for several thousand miles, and will have a negligible effect after only fifteen.
Ian
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Interesting.. I'd say a typical case of chronic cylinder glazing caused by treating it too gently. Diesels like to be worked hard-not thrashed-just worked hard.
Happiness is a T70 at full chat!
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Robin the T,
is there something wrong with my BX then? It's done 140k and still doesn't use that much oil. Is it not run in yet? When can I expect it to use the correct amount of oil. I'm worried
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Robin,
With respect, I'm not entirely convinced by your comments.
You repeatedly remind us that you are a Technician so I tried to look at your Profile to see what technical field you worked in, however it seems you have with-held that information. I wondered if you were a motor vehicle repair technician because I could understand dealers being advised by manufacturers that "1000 miles per litre is acceptable", i.e. the 'acceptable' level is set to whatever amount of oil their engines happen to use, not what the customer might reasonably expect.
A lot of cars used oil in the past, sometimes in copious amounts, because the piston ring and bore finishing technology that we have now was not available then. I don't think there is any excuse these days for oil consumption of the level that is being complained about on this thread. I wonder if the bore honing process has been cheapened up and this has left the engines prone to bore-glazing?
Regarding the advice to drive diesels hard to avoid bore-glazing: Diesel-engined vehicles are used for all sorts of duties and many are not driven hard (e.g. inner-city taxis and delivery vans). Is it being suggested that these vehicles should be fitted with petrol engines because diesels are not up to the job?!
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Just a general question...
What's the difference between a technician and a mechanic ?
Has that difference changed over the last, say, 15 years or have the terms always been used in the same way ?
Just out of interest.
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What's the difference between a technician and a mechanic ?
AFAIA, nothing. IMHO it's just a glorified title, such as bin men now being called refuse operatives/technicians.
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I should think that the change in title within the garage trade was influenced by the fact that motor vehicles now tend to need electronic diagnostics and repair, whereas 'mechanic' suggests that only mechanical training has been received.
However we now have technicians in many fields other than motor cars, like 'site technicians' (building maintenance operatives), so the word 'technician' on its own does not imply an expertise in motor vehicles.
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>>so the word 'technician' on its own does not imply an expertise in motor vehicles
Rather my point.
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My average daily mileage is 150 miles, today i did 518 miles, and so you see putting so much oil into the car is costing me money.
Yes i did see that Halfords were selling 10-40 @£9.99 per 5ltr. This was for petrol engines; the recommended 10-40 for diesels was not on offer. (Are these two oils the same?)
Now very confused, and wish I had purchased 1.7dti.
Regards Benjamin
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Could a slightly thicker viscosity oil be used to help stop the engine using so much of it?
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Benjamin, if you look at this site which is Opel they now specify their own oil. vectra.opel.com/brand_sites/vectra/launch/uk/en/do...f
No mention however of previous cars which have exactly the same engine. I also imagine it would be expensive.
However A3/B3 is a must for these engines according to Morris oils. I use Morris Multivis who informed me that the spec for this engine requires both the A3 petrol and B3 diesel spec and gave me the reasons for this which was in the light of past experience on the continent with higher speed motoring which affected Opel and Ford particularly.
It costs me just over £10.00 per 5 litre.
I shouldn't worry about your oil consumption as I feel sure it will improve with mileage. Mine used oil from new but it has dropped considerably.
alvin
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Alvin, what milage and engine have you got on your Vectra?
Billy
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Billy, Mine is a 1998 Vectra TDi which I bought new in 1998.
We also have a Maestro TD which is our favourite and gets almost all the mileage on it.
The Vectra is just coming on to 20,000 miles so thats about 4K per year which you might say is hardly worth keeping but thats another story.
The Vectra used oil initially but appears to be very little now.
On out annual drive down to Portugal last year we used the Vectra for the first time despite the wifes protests that she wanted to go in the Maestro again
I took a litre of oil and the total mileage was about 3800.
I had anticipated using it all but there was still some left so i think just over a litre was used.
So I think that is quite reasonable overall.
Do long runs in higher temperatures make a difference to oil consumption?. I believe so because the Maestro TD uses a little in normal use but travelling to Portugal in it and it uses virtually nil.
Our resident experts could perhaps answer that
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Alvin, I always thought the Maestro was under-rated and have driven many cars fitted with that excellent if noisy TD engine.
So your wife (and perhaps you also) prefers the Maestro to the Vectra? How illuminating!
;-)
Is the Maestro leaking oil a bit?
Billy
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Billy no it doesn?t leak any oil whatsoever. Bought this one from new in 1993 L reg and was one of the last ones although I have seen a couple of M reg ones.
Yes we prefer the Maestro although having said that I couldn?t really make any criticisms of the Vectra. Great engine and very light controls. I follow discussions on this site with interest such as a present running one titled "Vauxhall Vectra are they that bad" and with the hundred of thousands sold there must inevitably be some bad ones out there.
But it?s horses for courses and I like the Maestro.. Noisy TD engine... yes it is at low speeds but get up to a nice cruising speed of 80 and it?s as quite as others. Also I actually like the sound of that Perkins engine. Some like their cars to be either absolutely quiet or in the case of the kids round my town with Nova?s who manage to make them sound like a F1 car. Give me a diesel with no pretensions to be anything else and no electronic gubbins.
Must be in the genes as my brother has one or two cars yet whenever I see him he?s in his Montego diesel. He even had it re-sprayed recently which must have cost many times the value of it.
alvin
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