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The DSA driving manual says you should signal when joining a motorway......
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I do hope this thread is not going to get as heated as last time we discussed it.
My point, as last time, is that if you go through the thought(1)process of
a) is there anybody there? no
b) could there be somebody there? maybe
c) better signal then
or if the answer to b) is no then you don't signal is the correct way.
What it does is keep you from putting your car in a place where your eyes and brain haven't been first.
Automatic indicating could mean not enough thought applied.
(1) thought = keyword
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Sorry for duplication - I only recently joined the forum and was unaware of the previous thread.
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Quite right about always signalling when joining a motorway, as the indicator helps to alert other drivers to your prescence. On any occasion where there are other vehicles or pedestrians I would indicate, even when in a marked right turn lane. The markings might not have been noticed by everyone and even if they were the signal confirms your intention and avoids doubt about whether you have wandered into the wrong lane and are going to continue straight ahead.
An instance where I would not signal is turning at a junction with no hedgerow and an uninterupted view in every direction showing no one else about. If, however, I was in any doubt at all I would indicate. As stated earlier, the trainer in this case was trying to encourage Oz to read the situation and react to what he saw, rather than signalling parrot fashion regardless of the need.
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Tom, re the right turning lane situation and in a queue at traffic lights say.
At front or back of queue I keep signalling, but when other vehicle(s) behind turn the indicator off until the lights/queue about to change/move when they go back on. On the basis of reducing dazzle at night and mechanical sympathy perhaps.
Is that practice correct or should I just keep flashing?
(Quiet Toad.......Toad!!!)
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I would say that when stationary in a long queue your signal isn't going to be of any benefit to anybody, so along with the mech sympathy/dazzle reduction idea I would tend to agree no signal. But when the traffic situation around begins to change a signal WILL affect/help the traffic around you, so on it goes! IMO.
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I would agree with you on that, FiF.
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Is there any point in signalling when you are in a lane with a dirty great arrow saying which way you must go? Whatever the books say, what is the point of signalling a RIGHT TURN when joining a motorway when you are merging straight on and there is no other possible thing you can do. You can however use your signal to join a motorway to indicate you are barging in regardless of other traffic. Also, why confuse people by signalling 3 side turnings before the one you are going to use as many drivers do due to poor observation?
The point is really as said many times in this thread, only signal if it makes your intentions clear, and there is someone to see the signal.
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An entertaining mixture of opinions here. As HF asks, what is gained by not indicating, even if one is certain no-one else is looking? (though I don't indicate if there seems to be no observer). Also, I believe indicators are to give warning of one's intentions, not just to advertise one's presence - or put another way, attract others' attention when that may be better directed elsewhere. For that reason there seems no point in indicating when joining a motorway, as intentions are obvious, in fact there is no alternative.
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Andrew-T, sure, agree about the motorway bit - but truly in any other situation I cannot see the point in NOT indicating - it doesn't hurt the driver, and if there's no-one around to witness it - well, it STILL doesn't hurt the driver! I'm sure loads here will disagree with me on this....
HF
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Another question concerning indications is how one should allow for false ones - either accidental snatches on the stalk, or absent-minded or mechanical failure to cancel. The only 'safe' indication is one you have seen initiated, rather than one which has just appeared from behind some obstacle - and even then they can be wrong.
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In order to mimimise the possibility of false indications on the motorbike, which in the past has led to one or two near misses when I have omitted to cancel after a corner as with a full face helmet you have to deliberately look down to see the flashing light, I have had an audible warning fitted.
It has the added advantage that it alerts pedestrians that I am intending turning!
Brian
Still learning (I hope)
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I never pull out in front of someone indicating, for precisely this reason, until it's obvious that they're actually turning.
HF
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I never pull out in front of someone indicating, for precisely this reason, until it's obvious that they're actually turning. HF
That's what I chose to do, although it's amazing how many drivers behind you are willing to 'encourage' you to take the signal at face value and move off.
I would say that automatically indicating, even when there's nobody around to see it, is worse than not indicating at all, which we all see far too much of. If the downside of it becoming an automatic response is that it happens when there's nobody to see it, then I can live with that.
This suddenly makes me think of that 'if a tree falls in the forest when nobody is near, does it make a sound?' thing.
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Agree with you totally, FFX, you're right about the 'encouragement' from other drivers behind you, too, who seem to think you're being hesitant and overcautious.
HF
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An entertaining mixture of opinions here. As HF asks, what is gained by not indicating, even if one is certain no-one else is looking?
This is the question I come back too. The only purpose in not indicating is to demonstrate your observation skills to your instructor. Would be much better to verbalise that, adding "but i will indicate anyway just in case my observation is NOT perfect".
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Left lane if joining uphill, right lane if joining downhill.
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When joining a motorway on a slip road, don't bother to signal as you intend to merge into the traffic - as there is nowhere else for you to go anyway.
It's amazing how inattentive other drivers are (and you are going to be watching them in you mirrors and do an over-ther shoulder look), but given that you've only got a couple of seconds to carry out the maneuvre(?), this is one situation i would say if you are absolutely certain there is no traffic, don't signal, but otherwise signal
When waiting to turn (right) across traffic, keep your wheels pointing straight ahead so if you happen to be hit from behind you aren't pushed into oncoming traffic, or left back into the flow beside you
smokie - i cannot agree more with you on this one - it may be a small risk, but for no gain at all. Even worse is to start to turn right across lane 2 of the opposing carriageway, thus limiting the view of traffic coming towards youWhen stopping behind a car (e.g. at lights) stop with his rear wheels appearing to rest on your bonnet, this will always give you enough room to go round him if he's stalled ( - which assumes someone in the other lane will let you in!) >>
cant agree more (again !) and conversly I get just a bit wound up when the car behind me is so close that I cant see his headlights, even though they are on, and that happens most days of the week !
I have to grow old - but I don't have to grow up
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Another side issue from the thread author:
The discussion group was asked, what can you conclude when another vehicle flashes you?
The approved answer was: The headlamp bulbs work.
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Perhaps I should have started a new thread on this one?
When leaving a roundabout you should ALWAYS indicate left, but when do YOU indicate right?
AFAIK, right-indicating approaching or on a roundabout is not a 'legal' activity or requirement, but most of us do it at some time - and too many leave it going as they leave !
I usually only give rh indication on approaching a TJ roundabout with exits only to left or right.
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AFAIK, right-indicating approaching or on a roundabout is not a 'legal' activity or requirement, but most of us do it at some time - and too many leave it going as they leave ! I usually only give rh indication on approaching a TJ roundabout with exits only to left or right.
What about roundabouts, North Grafton r/b in Milton Keynes is an example, with lanes showing markings for both "leave at this exit" and "carry on to next"?. If you fail to indicate right you may be assumed to be failing to indicate left. Came within microns of Fiat Panda due exactly that just before Xmas.
Simon
Bugbrooke
Northants
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Sorry to do the 'HF' bit on this, but I really can't see any reason not to indicate, at any time. If there's traffic/pedestrians, then great, but if there don't seem to be any, then what benefit do you get by not indicating anyway, just in case?
HF
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"When leaving a roundabout you should ALWAYS indicate left, but when do YOU indicate right?"
Hasn't signal etiquette on roundabouts been covered recently?
Brian
Still learning (I hope)
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Very thorny one this, especially considering the appalling roundabout discipline here in Stockport...
Every situation is different, but generally:
2 exits, signal left or right.
3 exits, signal left if going left, no signal until you pass first exit if going straight on, signal if going right.
4 exits, signal as above for exits 1 and 2. No signal but approach in right lane (assuming 2 lanes) for exit 3, signal left after passing exit 2. Signal right for exit 4 until passed exit 3 then signal left.
The timing of the signal change is quite important though to not confuse other drivers. Larger roundabouts tend to have marked lanes so would only signal if going most of the way round.
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