question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel

Fri 9 Dec 2011 17:13

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - tariqbutt

Im trying to figure out what form of oil "red diesel" is when people use that term. Red Diesel is a british term as we dye it for tax reasons in the UK but Im trying to figure out what the specific type of oil would be known as internationally.

I have an international pricing index here for different types of oils which lists both

Gasoil 0.1%

ULSD 10ppm (ultra low sulphur diesel)

I assumed that Red Diesel was just regular diesel dyed so that it wouldnt be used in cars.

However this site

http://www.crownoil.co.uk/

Seems to imply that Red Diesel is actually Gasoil.

Does that mean people use heating oil (gas oil) in tractors? If that is so then can regular diesel be used in tractors at all?

Basically Gasoil and Diesel are clearly very similar, but they are not exactly the same. If red diesel is gasoil then that implies farm machinary is not designed to work with regular diesel??

Edited by tariqbutt on 09/12/2011 at 17:14

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Fri 9 Dec 2011 19:35

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - Peter.N.

Gasoil and road diesel are virtualy the same thing except that for industrial purposes it coloured red. Central heating oil is mostly what is called 28 sec and is more closely related to paraffin, it doesn't give sufficient lubrication for engine use unless you add some oil. Some central heating boilers do use gasoil but they are in the minority now.

In France road diesel is called 'gazoil'

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Fri 9 Dec 2011 21:01

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - mazda60

Hi,

Red diesel was called gasoil when I was in the oil business some years ago. It was blended from several oil refinery produced streams of various quailities to meet certain manufacturing specs as was diesel. The main differences were in their waxing up specs in the winter ; sulphur spec ; cetane index or number (the equivalent of octane number for gasolines) and plugging point (temp when it waxed up and stopped flowing) which was controlled with an additive.

Road diesel also hadf a lubricity additive to protect car diesel fuel pumps . Without waxing and lubricity additives the motorist would be in trouble especially in the winter.

I have kept this simple and hope it helps.

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Fri 9 Dec 2011 22:51

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - Duncan112

About 10 years ago I did a brief stint as Chief Engineer on a cargo ferry, one of the Masters was running his Ford Diesel on the MGO (Marine Gas Oil) that we ran the alternators on (no dye so no problem with tank dipping if he was stopped) and the car appeared to run OK although I had reservations about the lubricity of the fuel as suggested above. His logic was that the alternators were converted lorry engines so it would be all OK.

Anyway, one week we had to take MDO (Marine Diesel Oil) as there was no MGO available (our engines were designed to run on this lower grade fuel) I warned him not to use it but.... lets just say that he came back in a courtesy car, the cost of the repair far outweighing any fuel saving achieved.

One accidental discovery I made about 20 years ago was if you leave red diesel out in the sun in transparent containers the dye bleaches away in about 6 weeks.

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Sat 10 Dec 2011 10:02

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - Fernando P

Interesting Duncan but gas oil is "marked" with eg quinazirin and usually dyed and it is the marker that shows up in tests. No doubt the MGO was marked but not necessarily dyed. The dye may fade in the sun but the marker remains!

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Sat 10 Dec 2011 11:05

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - Fernando P

My above post should correctly read "quinizarin" - time I went to Spokeshavers!

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Sat 10 Dec 2011 11:28

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - mazda60

Hi,

To put automotive diesel and industrial dyed gasoil qualities in perspective can I just say that auto diesel has a cetane number 5 points above gasoil which is like comparing the old regular grade petrol (91 octane number) with the current regular unleaded (95 octane number). Super Unleaded used to 99 octane but I believe is now 97.

I would think modern diesel engine would not appreciate the lower grade ad I am sure that 91 octane run upset my MX5 engine !.

Cheers.

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Sat 10 Dec 2011 13:55

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - madf

Red diesel is primarlily used for farm machinery.

Any comparison between farm diesel engines and modern high powered CR engines is like comparing a pre WW2 side valve petrol engine with a turbo charged 16valve 190bhp 2 litre engine...

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Sat 10 Dec 2011 14:44

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - bathtub tom

Red diesel is primarlily used for farm machinery.

What do modern motor cruisers use? I'm thinking floating gin palaces twenty to fifty foot long. I suspect most of them will have modern diesels.

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Sat 10 Dec 2011 14:54

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - dieselnut

From 1st Jan 2011 Red Diesel has been low sulphur ( less than 10 milligrams per kg of fuel ) & can contain up to 7% biodiesel.

Modern farm machinery uses CR engines with DPF & cooled EGR for low NOX .

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Sat 10 Dec 2011 16:45

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - noddy99

From 1st Jan 2011 Red Diesel has been low sulphur ( less than 10 milligrams per kg of fuel ) & can contain up to 7% biodiesel.

Modern farm machinery uses CR engines with DPF & cooled EGR for low NOX .

We used to have a canal boat, which had a General Motors deilse engine in it. We used "red deisel" because it is deisel without VAT. You are allowed to use it in pleasure vehicles as well as farm vehicles. BUT NOT in motorhomes (albeit they are pleasure vehicles). If ever you are stopped and they decide to "dip" your tank, they can tell if "red deisel" has ever been in that tank, as the stain marks their stick somehow (not sure just how this works techincally) but I know this to be tru as a friend bourght a landrover from a farmer (who had obviously used "red deisel" in it when on the fields and my friend had only ever used garage deisel. There was a big enquiry and the farmer back him up, but be ware, if you use "red deisel" and you are found out the fine is heavy.

There are some people who use cooking oil (mixed with some chemical) and if you get behind s vehicle using this it smells like a road-side chip cafe, but whether this is legal or not I'm not sure. Love my engine too much to try and crash it.

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Sat 10 Dec 2011 17:10

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - Roly93

Any comparison between farm diesel engines and modern high powered CR engines is like comparing a pre WW2 side valve petrol engine with a turbo charged 16valve 190bhp 2 litre engine...

This may have been true of the farm diesels I used back in the late 70's and 80's, but most of the new kit now is CR and pretty hi-tec actually. In fact a freind of mine who is a farm contractor has similar problems with some machines as you hear spoken about with modern car diesels.

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Sat 17 Dec 2011 08:09

question about gasoil,red diesel and diesel - piston power

Trains use red diesel & a bloke at work helped himself to some and his car ran fine, but was sacked when caught.!

Industrial engines, generators, fork lift trucks, tractors, farm only machinery, all use it.

It stinks compared to the stuff at your filling station i know my coat stinks i work with it.

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