Parking Ticket

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Fri 29 Oct 2010 20:35
Parking Ticket - dazzsaward

I recently received a parking ticket for an offence that I believe I did not commit.

My vehicle was parked in a residents parking bay where non-residents are granted a 2 hour parking window with a further no return within 2 hour restriction (hope that makes sense).

I left the bay and then returned a few minutes AFTER the 2 hour no return period had expired. However, the civil enforcement officer claims that I had not left the bay and hence overstayed the 2 hour limit and I was hence fined.

I had lodged an appeal to the ticket and recently received a reply from the council claiming that the civil enforcement officer recording the valve positions of my tyres and hence could prove that my car had not moved during the 2 hours and hence I had overstayed the 2 hour limit. There is the usual accompanying photographic evidence but in my eyes this does not prove anything.

Do Civil Enforcement officers actually record valve placement/location information or are the council trying to fob me off???????????

Hope it all makes sense and I can provide more in-depth information if anyone wants. Thanks.

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Fri 29 Oct 2010 20:45
Parking Ticket - FP

I would have thought that the only acceptable "proof" of the tyre valve positions would be photographic. Do the photos show the valves?

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Fri 29 Oct 2010 21:03
Parking Ticket - dazzsaward

I would have thought that the only acceptable "proof" of the tyre valve positions would be photographic. Do the photos show the valves?

No the photos do not show the valve positions. The photos just show the side of my car from about 7 feet away.

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Fri 29 Oct 2010 21:39
Parking Ticket - daveyjp
Pepipoo website is your next port of call.

Parking Enforcement officers are liars and make things up - they work on a system of dishing out tickets on the basis that fighting one is such a pain for most people that they simply pay up. Pepipoo will also show this - fighting a case can take months of your time.

By introducing statements that valve positions have been checked before and after I'd argue the Council aren't being particularly clever. Whoever gave the ticket would have to prove he did this for every car he was watching - the chances of that are probably nil.
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Fri 29 Oct 2010 22:27
Parking Ticket - Pondlife
Based on my experience a couple of years ago, I think some councils automatically reject parking appeals, but you do get a proper review if you take it to independent appeal after the council's rejection.

I received a parking ticket which was unenforcable because the council's wording did not comply with the RTA, but despite this being clear-cut the council rejected my appeal with what appeared to be a template response. A further appeal to the independent body was upheld, and the ticket cancelled.

I suspect some councils hope you will just pay up, because it's quite a bit of effort to take the appeal the whole way.

Take a look here: www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/site/index.php
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Sat 30 Oct 2010 09:09
Parking Ticket - Dwight Van Driver

If the Council have rejected your submission then your next step is to appeal to the Parking Adjudicator. Council should have explained this in their rejection.

dvd

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Wed 3 Nov 2010 10:40
Parking Ticket - bonzo dog

Pondlife -

I received a parking ticket which was unenforcable because the council's wording did not comply with the RTA

But did you recieve the ticket wrongly or were you illegaly parked?

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Sat 30 Oct 2010 11:36
Parking Ticket - dazzsaward

Thanks guys for the response thus far.

I am going to challenge the ticket again as I don't believe the council have any proof of the valve positions.

If I was to ask for this proof would they send it to me/are they legally obliged to do this or would they wait till the Parking Adjudicator to reveal this information??????????

Thanks

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Sun 31 Oct 2010 17:01
Parking Ticket - Armitage Shanks {p}
We can only hope that the promised cull of Civil Service and Council employees includes a large number of these incompetent parasitic paper pushers!
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Sun 31 Oct 2010 17:30
Parking Ticket - conara
Hi just a thing to point out but unless you receved two time stamped photos both showing a two houre time gap and same valve position how can he prove you overstayed ? I know this is semantics but what's to stop him issuing tickets early I would ask for more info and I don't suppose you have proof you left the bay ?
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Mon 1 Nov 2010 15:41
Parking Ticket - dazzsaward

Thanks again guys/gals.

I am going to request the photographic evidence with time stamps and also the Civil Enforcement Officer's notes detailing the record of my vehicle's valve positions.

Unfortunately, I do not have any proof of me leaving and returning to the bay after the 2 hour window.

I will keep you all posted of any further developments.

Thanks again.

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Mon 1 Nov 2010 18:12
Parking Ticket - Leif

Thanks again guys/gals.

Unfortunately, I do not have any proof of me leaving and returning to the bay after the 2 hour window.

I will keep you all posted of any further developments.

Thanks again.

I hope this is not stating the obvious, but did you speak to anyone between the two parking periods, did you make any purchases and retain receipts, or make the purchase on a credit/debit card? If so, you might have proof. As an aside, when I tried to park in Fleet, a nearby warden warned me that I was not in the allowed time range. I had misread the complex notice, which many people do. So some wardens are genetically related to the rest of us!

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Wed 3 Nov 2010 02:29
Parking Ticket - dazzsaward

Thanks Leif, but unfortunately I just went round to a mate's place to have a chat.

I did not buy anything on the way and unless it was petrol, I do not think the council would accept it as sufficient proof??????????????

Anyways, I've emailed them again asking to see any proof of my valve positions being recorded by the CEO, so let's see what happens. I will keep you posted of any developments.

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Wed 3 Nov 2010 02:56
Parking Ticket - LucyBC
There is no requirement for photographs - only an entry in the officer's notebook - or more usually in the electronic hand held device they now seem to use. If that records an overstay or a premature return you won't win your case.

However they may have backed themselves up a tree on the valve positions argument and if they cannot produce you could win.
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Wed 3 Nov 2010 09:59
Parking Ticket - simondjuk
Point of order here. You don't have to prove that you left the space. They have to prove that you didn't. If he or she didn't enter your vehicles details into his device for a period exceeding two hours they have no reason to assume that your vehicle wasn't absent from the space for that minimum period.

Don't give up, that's what they rely on. Ask for the proof of your vehicle having been present in the space during that two hour window to be sent to you forthwith!
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Wed 3 Nov 2010 10:34
Parking Ticket - bonzo dog

didn't enter your vehicles details into his device for a period exceeding two hours they have no reason to assume that your vehicle wasn't absent from the space for that minimum period

Is my thinking also. They know you were parked at say 13.00 & they know you were parked at 16.00 they would surely have to "prove" that you had not vacated the space in between, if you say you had. But .......

...... a side photo would "prove" conclusively either way. The chances of a car being parked, driven away & re-parked in the identical spot with the valves in an identical position are so remote that you would have more chance of winning Euro-Millions. If the valves are not visible then the position of the car in relation to other fixed objects (eg lamp post, wall bricks, flag-stones etc) will tell whether the car has been moved.

Ask for the photo in digital format which you can easily blow up.

Good luck in determining the truth

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Thu 4 Nov 2010 11:44
Parking Ticket - ajs2

In any legal case there are rules of disclosure. Basically they are required to share any information that they have.

They have made a statement that they record valve locations and are no required to show that they did. If they can't then on this basis of their case is surely lost as they have lied.

IMHO

alex

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Fri 12 Nov 2010 06:01
Parking Ticket - jiya123
hi yes it is truth that on the road there is lot of traffic so recovering it is possible to take a parking ticket.
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Thu 4 Nov 2010 19:00
Parking Ticket - barney100

Now call me old fashioned but i was under the illusion that in England you were assumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. Ask to see the proof and if you think you are right threaten them with legal action for harrassment.

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Mon 8 Nov 2010 13:21
Parking Ticket - Leif

Now call me old fashioned but i was under the illusion that in England you were assumed innocent until PROVEN guilty.

You can contest many things such as a speeding ticket, by for example asking for proof, but doing so might end up incurring an increased penalty. The aim is to intimidate us into submission and it works. The bureacracy could not cope with everyone contesting everything.
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Mon 8 Nov 2010 13:51
Parking Ticket - bonzo dog

I thought "the aim" was to deter those who wish to dis-regard the law to behave according to it, eg to drive within the speed limits & park legally.

However as these are deemed to be reletively minor offences they are dealt with by way of a fixed penelty & points rather than going to the expence of a court hearing.

Would you prefer the court hearing & accepting the consequential costs if "proven" guilty?

Would you like to see the judicial system clogged up even more than it is now?

Are you one of the many that thinks you should be able to drive as YOU determine & dump YOUR car anywhere YOU like?

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Mon 8 Nov 2010 14:17
Parking Ticket - madf

Anyone with any common sense parking under those rules and exiting a bay - and wanting to repark - would not use the same bay.

Period. No more to be said.

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Mon 8 Nov 2010 14:41
Parking Ticket - conara
Hi two points hear if the trafic person used a PDA type device then that wil have a digital time stamp showing the two times ( that's a big IF) thair seams to be a few people telling you to just take the punishment !! But I beleve you are right to fight it if you did no wrong, In my humble opinion the judicial system targets the law abiding driver as a easy catch cash cow ! For the ilegal driver no tax mot insurance licence , won't register the car and have nothing to lose, so stand your corner, I hope you win and stick it to the system !!
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Fri 12 Nov 2010 03:39
Parking Ticket - dazzsaward

There's plenty more to be said.

How exactly is wanting to park outside your own property grounds for not having any common sense? If anybody's common sense should be questioned, then surely it's that of the traffic warden?

Parking is limited where I live and on this occasion I was very fortunate or unfortunate (depending on how you want to look at it) to be able to park outside my house twice.

Anyway, I am still awaiting the Council's reply. Thanks for all the constructive advice thus far.

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