Thanks for that link, Old Navy.
The FuelSure looks like a useful gadget, with a slightly different approach to the others. The FuelSure appears to use the pump nozzle as a tool of opening the cap, which is then removed by hand. So I guess the modus operandi is to poke the cap with the pump, then remove the cap, then insert the pump.
Sounds a bit cumbersome, and I reckon that the extra £10 for the SoloDiesel is worthwhile.
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See t'other thread: apm uses a fuel angel.
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misfuelers are a joke, do they have trouble paying there gas and electricity bills too? no brainers
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misfuelers are a joke do they have trouble paying there gas and electricity bills too? no brainers
Ahah! Somebody else who never ever makes a mistake.
I presume that your car is insured for third party and theft cover only, because if you never get anything wrong you don't really need insurance at all.
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fully comp me duck, 30 years no claims
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fully comp me duck 30 years no claims
Bit of a waste of money that, if you never ever make a mistake.
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>> fully comp me duck 30 years no claims Bit of a waste of money that if you never ever make a mistake.
Why? Fully comp is often cheaper than third party (better class of motorist).
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a bit presumptive? ive never misfuelled a car , but if numpties want to then thats up to you/ them... im sure the AA and RAC are waiting to sort you /them out?
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All 3 of those devices in the OP are for fitting to diesels.Do they not make one for stopping you putting diesel into a petrol car?Or is it physically impossible anyway?(I've never really compared the two side by side so i wouldn't know)
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I was tempted to reply that a visit to Specsavers might do the trick, when I remembered that it wouldn't be the first time I've come close to misfuelling and my eyesight's 20/20!
Perhaps the ideal answer would be that one had to press a clearly-marked button on the pump itself to release the appropriate nozzle? Trouble is it would slow down the throughput which isn't ideal on busy forecourts.
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All 3 of those devices in the OP are for fitting to diesels.Do they not make one for stopping you putting diesel into a petrol car?Or is it physically impossible anyway?(I've never really compared the two side by side so i wouldn't know)
The diesel nozzle is significantly wider than the petrol nozzle, so I thought that a diesel nozzle simply wouldn't fit into a petrol car's filler.
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I'm with zookeeper on this one, sorry. Eyes and ears that's all you need. How on earth anyone with all their faculties and their brain switched on can mis-fuel is beyond me. Two pumps usually, one green, one black. Just pick the right one and get on with it. Remember the bad old days with 2 3 4 and 5*? Now that was confusing.
If it really is that confusing, just stick a label on the dashboard and save the original poster £39.99 in having to buy one of those fuel angel things....
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Two pumps usually one green one black. Just pick the right one andget on with it. Remember the bad old days with 2 3 4 and 5*? Now that was confusing.
It might have been confusing but it was all petrol, and the worst that could happen was a bit of pinking or a dent in your wallet, depending on which way the mistake went.
The green and black thing is all right till you start looking at the nozzle itself; normally with some kind of advert on the handle these days which further distracts the driver.
How about banning the adverts and insisting on a sign on the handle itself saying "Have you got the right fuel?" or similar. Better still a symbol since it's now illegal to just have signs in English. Before anyone bites on that I live in Wales.
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I'm with zookeeper on this one sorry. Eyes and ears that's all you need. How on earth anyone with all their faculties and their brain switched on can mis-fuel is beyond me. Two pumps usually one green one black. Just pick the right one and get on with it. Remember the bad old days with 2 3 4 and 5*? Now that was confusing.
According to various accounts, 150,000 drivers do this every year. I don't believe they are all fools -- just people who get distracted.
The old days of dift grades of petrol weren't so bad. Too good a grade of petrol and you'd just paid a little over the odds; too low a grade and the engine would run a little rough, but with little chance of serious damage. A petrol/diesel mixup is a much more serious affair.
Switching regularly between diesel and petrol, I am particularly worried about misfuelling my camper, because if it has to have its tank cleaned out after an evening fillup that's my home out of action overnight (or at best a night on a garage forecourt).
It's really easy to make filling a habitual thing: instinctively reach for the green nozzle, or for the black one, depending on what you usually use. And several times I have nearly been caught out by bad labelling or unorthodox colouring.
So I have now set myself a routine. Stop, remind myself which fuel I need, and check the prices for both sorts. After undoing the filler cap, pick up the appropriate pump and check that the right price appears on the pump display; then, when I've got the nozzle in place do a final check before pumping. Check again which fuel I want? Is the hose the right colour? And does all the writing check out, both on the pump and on the nozzle?
That sounds really pedantic, but it's a lesson learnt the hard way after I filled my 305 diesel with Petrol back in 1995. The pump was labelled in huge letters "diesel only", so I took that one. The hose was blue, and I didn't do any further checks ... and it was only when the car conked out and I went back to check that I found the garage had in fact converted that pump to petrol, with a small label to that effect. Ouch, and a £100 bill plus a wasted tank of fuel, and a red face as the friend to whom I'd given a lift walked home.
Checking the pumps as I filled my camper over 4000km this summer, I found an amazing variety in the labelling of pumps in Ireland. Some had a label on the nozzle, some had it on the pump. Some had the green hose for petrol and black for diesel, but some didn't. One pump (the last one before I caught the ferry) had two blue hoses, and on both of them the big labels had been replaced with large ads for the sandwiches sold by the shop, leaving only tiny labels for "petrol" and "diesel". It was such a silly idea that I nearly went back to the cab for my camera, but then recalled I needed the loo and had better not dally.
Trying to take care about this, I started to notice how many other things were on my mind when I stopped for fuel and lifted my focus from reading the road. Will that driving rain persist, or will it lift? Was my dog okay in the back of the van, and what about the kids I might have with me that day? Was there actually time to visit the two other places I'd planned that day, and had I got the right maps to find them? If I couldn't find a loo here, was there likely to be another place soon, and if not when would there be somewhere secluded enough that I could pull out the camping loo in the van? Was Anne really okay as she'd said in that phone call this morning, or should I scrap the afternoon's visits and drive off to her house on a pretext just to see if she wants to talk?
Maybe there's a gender issue here. Stereotypically, men focus on one thing at a time, while women multi-task. A friend likes to quote a line from a play she saw many years ago in which a woman complained about her husband's efforts in the kitchen, which goes much like this.
"When he's frying the bacon, he's frying the bacon. He's not keeping an eye on what the kids. He's not talking on the phone to his sister about her marital crisis. He's not washing up dishes. He's not making a shopping list and trying to figure out when we need to buy food again.
No -- he's frying the bacon."
When I drive, I focus on the road. But most times I fill up with fuel, I'm not just frying the bacon.
Edited by NowWheels on 06/09/2009 at 03:05
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The diesel nozzle is significantly wider than the petrol nozzle so I thought that a diesel nozzle simply wouldn't fit into a petrol car's filler.
oh yes it will, i did 5 diesel in petrol fuel swaps in a couple of months a few years ago. try telling the people i charged 200 quid a go it won't fit.
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theres no easy answer on misfueling
us people that have things to think about on a daily basis keeping the cogs of england greased do indeed have problems getting the right fuel for the right vehicle
those that only have to remember to get frozen peas for tonights tea find it easy to get it right but then toddle off home at 27mph in a 40 zone
nuff said i think
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remember to get frozen peas
Thanks
I knew i'd forgotten something :-)
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The simple answer is to have standardised hose colours for all fuel stations so that all fuel pumps are the same across the country and preferably across the EU. A lot of the mix ups are from different fuel companies having different colours and having different colours for the other fuel varieties. If all stations were the same then people would get into the habit of knowing which colour at least to go for.
Black for diesel, red for petrol, blue for LPG. No mix ups, no fuss, no bother. You could add a silver stripe for the 'ultimate' version of any of these so that people know they're getting a higher octane. Or the octane value could be written on the pump handle so you know exactly which it is so there is absolutely no confusion about putting in 95 when you want 99 or whatever. Perhaps an extra button to push when the fuel is selected so it asks 'are you sure you want petrol' or 'are you sure you want diesel' so that it brings people's attention back to what they're doing.
If all filling stations used the same colours and all petrol fillers had a coloured cap of the 'right' colour it would nudge people to always putting in the right fuel. They'd see the red fuel cap and think petrol. Black cap would make them think diesel.
There will be people still that even with all this manage to get the wrong fuel in. A large bill and a trip on an AA truck might help them pay more attention. Fuel stations are dangerous places so people not paying full attention are a health and safety risk too.
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Which device to prevent misfuelling?
SWMBO sitting in the passenger seat - it is not a cheap option but is fullproof.
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>>.......standardised hose colours for all fuel stations
>>Black for diesel, red for petrol, blue for LPG. No mix ups, no fuss, no bother.
>>
IMO the nearest to standardisation in the UK is GREEN for petrol.
IIRC Red was the old colour for petrol and then seemed to default to red for four star when green arrived.
I have no idea what the rest of Europe has.
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Another no brainer here..............pride cometh
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The man who never made a mistake doesn't need to worry.
Would he like to step forward?
(Very seriously thinking of one of these.)
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Interestingly in France this summer when I was using the card only 24x7 pumps in supermarkets you had to say what fuel you were using early on in the authorisation process - I never tested to find out if you selected Gazole could you dispense essence ?
Simon
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Many public sector vehicles feature a PETROL or DIESEL sign over the fuel filler cap - why not try that route, but with the sign hidden under the flap?
Many of the same vehicles, including ambulances, also have a sign on the wheel arches stating the correct tyre pressure.
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Wow!
A question, 26 replies, and only 3 of them actually trying to answer the question.
And this reply of mine is no better. If anything, it's even worse.
;-)
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I'd like to suggest Fuel Fixer in case your on the road and misfuelled your vehicle you contact them anytime. www.fuelfixer.co.uk
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Hello all, this is my first post on John?s site and I should say first off that the text that follows is regarding the device that I invented namely FuelSure so if you don?t wish hear what some may regard as a one sides argument then read no further, I understand.
OK for those of you still with me some facts around these devices and what makes Fuelsure unique, firstly the operation of the device is simple and quicker than a conventional cap, have a look at the video on the site www.fuelsure.com you will see that the cap only needs to be pushed back in place after filling. All the other units require the removal and the refitting of the cap apart from SoloDeisel which as one earlier contributor said is a capless restrictor.
And here in lies the problem with restrictor devices, they prevent the normal insertion of the fuel filler nozzle into the tank, this has two major problems, firstly the tank cannot breath as normal and the pump cut off operation can be effected because of the restriction of the device, some vehicles have valves that need to be operated by inserting the nozzle, others have air galleries that allow the pressures to be balanced during filling.
Secondly and most importantly manufactures have designed the filler neck to have the capacity to discharge static build up that occurs as a result of diesel fuel flowing at a relatively high velocity through the pump nozzle, it is imperative that a constant path to earth (either through the filler neck wall or the metal earth flap) is maintained. Where diesel fuel is present in low concentrations (for example in the area of a filler neck after filling) it is possible that a static discharge may cause this low concentration of fuel to ignite.
Thatcham have stated in their standard for misfuelling prevention devices (TQS 013) that this constant path to earth must be maintained ? any device that insulates the nozzle from the filler neck or the earthing flap which is fitted to some vehicles (Ford Transit for example) would fail this standard on safety grounds ? FuelSure allows the pump nozzle to maintain a constant path to earth.
There are a great many design elements incorporated in FuelSure including the provision to allow the car to be filled from a can, the fact that it can be transferred one car to another, all of which have taken two years to design.
Thanks for reading my thoughts ? sorry it sounds like and advert, but I felt the need to defend my invention
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>>..but I felt the need to defend my invention>>
Now there's a surprise.....
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>>..but I felt the need to defend my invention>> Now there's a surprise.....
>>
And one problem with that invention is that if there is a residue of fuel in the nozzle when it is used it to release the cap, it fills the cap and splashes down the car, trousers, and shoes.
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OK, by keeping the nozzle level any fuel that may have been left in the pump nozzle will be retained in it preventing the spillage you mentioned ? we have amended our user instructions with this advice
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Interesting that your first post in these forums should be to advertise your product....:-)
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Interesting that your first post in these forums should be to advertise your product....:-)
Stuartli, I think you are being rather unfair on 3604. I thought that 3604's comments were very helpful in explaining why is product had been designed as it is, and were not just a "buy my product" dose of free advertising.
As someone looking for more info on these products, my only complaint is that none of the other product designers joined the discussion.
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Humans are creatures of habit: when some small part of our world has imperceptibly changed, we are all capable of making mistakes, simple as that. 20 years ago there were hardly any diesel cars in Britain and you'd no more misfuel a car than go home to the wrong wife. (Perhaps not the ideal analogy...)
There are a lot of oh-so-smug postings on this thread but how many of us, hand on heart, have NEVER done any of the following in a different/unfamiliar car:
* flicked one minor control instead of another (compare the push, twist and pull functions of the 2, 3 or 4 stalks, pods and paddles emanating from the steering column of a typical car these days - everything from ride height to gearchange, wipers, lights, radio volume,...)
* engaged the wrong gear, albeit for a fraction of a second and when stationary
* forgotten to cancel an indicator, switch off the foglights, switch ON the headlights...
* switched the lights off when they were on, thinking you'd done the opposite.
* misread a dial (not just the matter of empty-full but the occasional confusion from the massive information overload we face; I counted (while stationary!) no fewer than TWENTY FIVE separate pieces of information coming at me from my car's dashboard, radio/CD panel and satnav. Information overload can come from just two ever-so-slightly similar concepts.
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Stuartli
I started the post with a clear explanation as to who I was, I respect the site and its contributors as I do John?s columns for giving technical advice to non technical motorist which helps them avoid some of the pitfalls of the motoring world ? I have not chosen to get a ?friend? to post smoothing regarding our product, and I have not taken the first opportunity to abuse the site for advertising as you seem to suggest ? I came across this site accidentally when searching for items containing the word FuelSure as it rose up the goggle rankings. Any manufacturer of these restrictors can post the same as I have and defend their invention - I would simply ask that potential purchases of restrictor devices consider the points that I have made when making their choices ? a choice the should be well informed, this being the basis of Johns popularity.
You may trust you husband, wife, girlfriend, son, daughter, hairdresser, nanny, brother, neighbour, even your dog to put the right fuel in your car? but do you trust yourself?
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3604
Am I right in saying your product does not actually lock? So on my Seat for instance, where I have to use my key to unlock the cap, if I replace it with yours then I am, in theory, open to fuel theft?
My fuel flap does not lock, just the cap.
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BobbyG
When we were designing the unit we considered a key locking version but our experience is that most, if not all, fuel theft nowadays if from cutting the fuel lines under the car or puncturing the tank (fuel thieves don?t like a mouthful of diesel) so a locking version would add cost and complexity without giving any useful protection ? all current OEM caps and flaps that lock can easily be defeated with a screwdriver. The thief would not know that your car was fitted with FuelSure because the unit is covered by the outer flap so they would probably go for the above technique. Perversely if you car was attacked and the Fuelsure was removed to siphon the diesel out your repair will is likely to be lower because you would not need to replace a broken fuel cap, cut fuel line or punctured fuel tank.
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>>? but do you trust yourself?>>
In a word, yes.
But none of the others including, as I'm a male (which should be obvious from my handle), a husband...:-)
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Well I've misfuelled and so have thousands of others, you can have a real good laugh at our expense.
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One very effective device that guards against misfuelling is one known as a 'brain'.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 21/05/2012 at 14:53
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One very effective device that guards against misfuelling is one known as a 'brain'.
LIKE
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I would love to meet with one of these people who have never made a mistake. Never missed with an hammer and hit their hand instead. Never tripped over an obstacle. Never spilt a drink and a thousand other mistakes I have made in a long lifetime.
But strangely I have just never come across one of these fortunate few amongst us.
My son in law is a fuel tanker driver and he tells me how pedantic he and his mates are when delivering fuel to garages to make sure he makes the correct connection from his tanker to the right fuel tank. He says he follows the pipes back and forwards between them several times before he begins the transfer. And also to make sure he doesn’t use the pump when the fuel is petrol.
Even so…..misfueling does occur which costs the company thousands of pounds and the driver is in big trouble.
But considering these drivers are doing several loads a day multiplied by thousands across the country it is inevitable that mistakes are made.
Unless of course they were all zookeepers.
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I lnow of a number of fuel tanker deliveries with incidences where the wrong fuel has been put into the wrong tank (e.g. BP diesel put into the tank for BP Ulitmate). The problem is the fuel station then sells the fuel at a premium price hoping Jo public won't notice the mistake whilst they cream off a nice profit by charging a premium price.
I do have sympathy for anyone who misfuels, whatever the reason people do make mistakes. When such mistakes occur it would be better if we helped or assisted one another to help rectify the situation rather than making derogatory and unhelpful remarks such as "brain" etc.
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I do have sympathy for anyone who misfuels, whatever the reason people do make mistakes. When such mistakes occur it would be better if we helped or assisted one another to help rectify the situation rather than making derogatory and unhelpful remarks such as "brain" etc.
I couldn't agree more, I am fortunate that I haven't misfuelled "so far", but cam very close one day, was about to fill the wife's company car and as I got out of the car mentioned that I must remember it is diesel. Thenm next thing I have the petrol nozzle in the tank, luckily I noticed just in time!
I do consider myself to have a "brain", so it shows to me, just how easy it can be.......
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A lot of the blame for misfuelling can be laid at the door of the fuel companies, none of which seem to be exactly paupers, and the companies that operate the filling stations.
Years ago "DERV" used to be a separate pump in a far corner of the filling station as there were hardly any diesel-powered cars in the UK. As diesel became more popular, we saw ever more cost-cutting measures and frankly ludicrous forecourt designs - always cramming as many pumps into the tiniest space available and it became clear that ergonomics were not a priority. There is no stadnard, international agreement on colours of fuel lines or nozzle holders or in the marking of pumps and at one multi-fuel dispenser there may be four or five different fuels available. The only nod to efficiency is the different size of the pump nozzle, meaning that the larger (24mm) nozzle for diesel - there is an even larger one for HGVs IIRC - will not fit into the 21mm filler neck of petrol engined vehicles, but the reverse is not true and 150,000 misfuels per year demonstrate that this is simply not good enough!
There should be proper research into colours, shapes, symbols, sizes and even voices to eliminate this expensive and avoidable phenomenon. A lot of pumps in Spain have a strident voice informing you "YOU HAVE SELECTED DIESEL / PETROL" the moment you unhook the nozzle, but this has a hypnotising effect and rather like the doors marked "PUSH" or "PULL", people often get it wrong regardless. I would take it one stage further and have a strident female voice for one type of fuel and a booming man's voice for another. Thatcher for petrol and Engelbert Humperdinck for diesel maybe?? ;-)
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