What should I do?
Get the AA to go to the garage and give an independent assessment?
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>>>What should I do? <<<
Difficult one MrFlower ... The car was out of warrantee, but only just - it wasn't serviced by a Vauxhall pain dealer so that's 3 Hail Mary's & 4 Our Fathers!
I take it you've got proof in writing Re: the dealer previously checking out why the oil light came on last year?
Read, and re-read all these posts, there is some good advice here.
If you're in the AA or RAC, have a word with them.
An independent engineers report would be a good idea & to check that pump.
I doubt if it would need a complete new engine IMO typical pain dealer speak.
You could try to drag it through the legal system, but that's more ££££££ and there's no guarantee you'd win anyway.
Sorry to be so non-committal comrade, but as I said - its a difficult one!
Best of luck & let us know the result.
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Thanks perro!
I phoned the AA and RAC and neither will no an in depth report . . they only do visual checks??
Getting someone to actually take the engine apart and examine the oil pump is a bit of a tough one.
I'm going to write to Westons who I originally purchased the car from and see how they want to deal with it . . i'm sure it's worth their while to make me go away
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>>Getting someone to actually take the engine apart and examine the oil pump is a bit of a tough one.
If the garage have investigated enough to say that the cause is oil starvation, then, they'll be almost in a position to remove the oil pump without any further work.
What exactly has been done to this engine to investigate the fault?
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I really do not know exactly what the garage has checked, they have run a compression test I think thats about it.
I don't even know how you would do that
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Not easy to do a compression check on a siezed engine I would have thought? I still think you are being messed about.
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 14/07/2009 at 15:50
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I phoned the AA and RAC and neither will no an in depth report .
AA Comprehensive inspection?
www.aacheck.com/viproducts.asp?persist
We had one of these done on a car we purchased from a garage and it proved useful; garage ended up paying for it.
EDIT: sorry on second reading it's still not really what you want I guess
Edited by Focus {P} on 14/07/2009 at 15:25
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A Vauxhall "Pain" dealer! There's an intersting typo!
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>>> Not easy to do a compression check on a siezed engine I would have thought? I still think you are being messed about. <<<
Yes, the compression test bit did it for me as well - very, very suspicious!
Think about this one ... if you had a car that had been maintained by a trusted garage,
where would you take that car if it broke down?
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>>> Not easy to do a compression check on a siezed engine I would have thought? I still think you are being messed about. <<<
I may have missed it, but has the OP confirmed the engine DID sieze?
in the 1st posting he said this;
'On Sunday whilst travelling home my oil light came one. I pulled over and checked that my car had sufficient oil, the oil was halfway up the dipstick so I turned the engine on again. The light went out and I continued my journey, about ten minutes later there was a loud bang and my car broke down'
rather than a seized engine i would be looking for AWOL pistons!
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You are correct TST! OP has not mentioned the Seized word! It would still be difficult to do a compression check with AWOL pistons }l:)
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It would still be difficult to do a compression check with AWOL pistons }l:)
Very much so!
Ive had an Vx engine seize (oil pump failure) that went quietly, where as a 'loud bang' normally shows signs of internal/external damage, plus LOTS of oil everywhere...
someone is pulling someone else's chain I feel.....
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You lot are really helpful!
I had a call from Vauxhall today to let me know they have received my letter and owing to the fact that the car is out of warranty are not prepared to do anything.
I am going to take it up with the garage I bought the car from, if I ask for a refund i'm sure they will help fight my corner with Vauxhall.
I tried local garages to do an inspection for me, they all say that they would prefer not to get involved. If they remove my oil pump how can they proove they did not damage it removing it.
I obviously want to take this as far as I can
Edited by MrFlower on 16/07/2009 at 14:09
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Ultimately, if you dont get any joy from the warranty, I think you have two options.
1) Source a secondhand engine from a repuatble source. I reckon a low mileage 1.6 / 1.4 engine would be maybe £500 plus fitting.
2) Speak with an engine reconditioners and see if they will put a new oil pump in it and new crackshaft bearing - that might be all that it actually need. Near where I live there are several small engineering shops/re-conditioners who might be able to help.
On some cars you can even change bearings whilst the engine is in the car. That might save you a few bob.
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Ok just had a fax, the engineers report is as follows (sp as original):
INVEST:
Investigate & report drier acclerating on motorway loud noise from the engine bay area and smoke comi from the engine.
Customer has been advised that initial 1.0hrs investiga and that will be paid by debit card.
MEC:
VEHICLE TO WORKSHOP CHECKED OIL LEVEL NO OIL IN VEHICLE TOOK 4 LITRES TO GET TO MAX MARK CARRIED OUT COMPRESSION TEST NO 1 CYL 0 NO CYL 50 NO 3 CYL 150 NO 4 CYL 125 LOUD METALIC NOISE COMING FROM BOTTOM END OF ENGINE SUSPECT ENGINE U/S POSSIBLE TURBO DAMAGE DUE TO NO OIL.
FSOIL - Fully Synthetic Engine Oil
So I have been charged £95 for the compression test and £52 for 4 litres of fully synthetic oil . . .apparently.
Hopefully the above will make more sense to some people.
On the phone they stated that it needed 4 litres just to get on the stick, the report says to the top, they also state I was accellerating (I probably was) but never said this.
I assume that from the info about the pistons and the bottom end being noisy that it's still not great news?
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So ... its a turbo diesel then.
A compression test is not a proper investigation, especially of the bottom half.
Has the cambelt been checked I wonder?
Clearly, the dealer doesn't want to know - you didn't buy it from them, you didn't have it serviced by them, I'd pull it out and see if your servicing garage will take the job on.
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First time I've seen mention of a turbo - I'd guess the same as perro.
Those compression readings are all very low for a diesel.
The engines obviously turning over - but what's been happening inside during these tests ?
Definitely pull it out and get it trailered somewhere else.
A s/h engine may well be the best option.
good luck
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It's a petrol turbo, it is getting towed to my house tomorrow to sit on my driveway :(
Is it good news that it still turns over then?
As mentioned the garage couldn't really give a stuff, if it still turns over is a rebuild on the cards instead of a new engine?
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its flubbered
have you considered a new greenhouse as a use for it?
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Would love to see number crunchers view on my engineers report . . .they seemed to know quite a bit about the Vx engine (Oil pump failure etc)
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MrFlower - can you give full details of your car model please?
Also, try asking at
www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/
www.astraownersclub.com/vb/
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Try this website for a replacement engine.
www.247spares.co.uk/
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MrFlower - can you give full details of your car model please?
2006 Vauxhall Astra Sri, 2.0 Turbo 200ps, Engine type Z20LEH, 5 Door
Thats about all I know {Added to header - DD}
I posted on the astra owners network and had a couple of replies but nothing as in depth as on here!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 17/07/2009 at 00:59
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If what you said about checking the oil level AND what the garage said about finding no oil in the engine are both true, then, you need to find where the oil has gone. If there are no big end shaped holes in the side of the block, then, the most likely source of such a rapid leak must be the turbo.
Having said that, I would be a bit surprised if the oil loss led immediately to lost comressions without other damage - I would expect the big end bearings to be damaged and knocking, and probably the cam might seize up.
The garage seems to have checked the oil level and the compressions - enough to tell you that there's serious trouble under the bonnet, but, not enough to really enable you to choose what to do.
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...... the garage said about finding no oil in the engine ..........
Is it possible for there to have been no oil in the engine, or was that just another vague statement by the examining engineer, similar to him saying that the engine was "u/s"?
In a situation like this I would expect statements to be factual and accurate.
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Well on the phone they told me it needed 4litres to just get minimum on the stick, then the report claims that it needed 4litres to max . . . there's a difference there.
And as mentioned to claim that it's just U/S, no details of the turbo condition, no details of the oil pump condition, no details of the rocker cover gasket, no details of the turbo oil seals . . .something isn't right with their diagnosis unfortunately I'm no expert and as mentioned above I'm finding it hard to get a second opinion anywhere!
Today I shall write to the garage I bought it from for their opinion as I will be trying to get a full refund from them . . . I don't even want the thing now
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When the OP pulled over and checked the oil, I wonder if it was a "real" level on the dipstick, or was what little oil there was in the engine just draining back and smeared the dipstick? The engine should have been left for a couple of minutes to get a sensible reading.
So, could the turbo oil seals have gone a while ago, the oil burning itself through the back, until there was insufficient oil left in the engine, and hence the seizure?
When was the oil last properly checked before the day in question?
MVP
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If the turbo seals had gone, surely you'd notice the smoke from the exhaust?
Edited by nick on 17/07/2009 at 10:10
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>>> surely you'd notice the smoke from the exhaust <<<
Smoke does get a mench - see post Thu 16 Jul 09 13:24
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I check my oil on a regular basis, just before long journeys (Which this was hence the massive tow bill) and probably about once a week.
Oil and filter service was carried out by Kwik Fit on 30th March with the odometer reading 33719.
The odometer reading on the engineers report at time of failure is 36991
Could my car really have burnt 4 litres of oil over 3200 miles or 3 months? Even with me keeping an eye on it?
I highly doubt that, I am 100% sure that this failure was caused by something failing which caused there to be a lack of oil in the engine, I checked the oil shortly before the incident and there was oil in there, the fact that the garage have not checked some fundamental things infuriates me further.
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It is perfectly possible to burn 1 litre per 1000 miles, and some vauxhall engines have been known to do it, so its feasible to have burned 3.5 litres of oil in the time since the fill.
If you "suddenly" loose 4 litres of oil, you see it somewhere. If it had suddenly escaped while driving it would be smeared everywhere
( I have seen a 306 throw a rod on the A1M, the whole car was a black mess)
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"And as mentioned to claim that it's just U/S, no details of the turbo condition, no details of the oil pump condition, no details of the rocker cover gasket, no details of the turbo oil seals . . .something isn't right with their diagnosis unfortunately I'm no expert and as mentioned above I'm finding it hard to get a second opinion anywhere!"
you wont get any of that information by paying for just one hours mechanics time.
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Disappointed NC...you didn't rise to the 'Engineer's Report' comment :-))
Wonder if the TECH failed to notice the 4 litres of oil running out on the floor as he filled it....???
If the OP is getting the car back to his house, then I would tempted to get a mobile mech round to look at it, whilst the OP looks on to see what is happening, and the mech explains properly what he finds (other than a knackered engine!).
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As mentioned problem with mobile mechanics is not too many want to get involved as they don't want it to be claimed that they have damaged the part.
Do any of you know of anyone who inspects and disassembles engines in the essex/hertfordshire area?
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>>Disappointed NC...you didn't rise to the 'Engineer's Report' comment :-))
Thanks for picking up on that! I must have been rather jaded after my flight to LA to have missed it - as you know, it's normally red rag to a bull!
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Disappointed NC...you didn't rise to the 'Engineer's Report' comment :-))
"engineers report" not "Engineer's Report". The OP made no reference to rank or qualifications.
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Regardless of if it is an engineers report or Engineer's Report I know have the car back on my driveway :)
Small victories and all of that, I have also contacted the garage I got the car from asking for their assistance, I'm sure when I start asking for a refund they'll happily find someone to inspect it for me
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>>when I start asking for a refund they'll happily find someone to inspect it for me<<
Surely that is the last thing that you need. You need an independent professional report.
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How hard can it be :(
I would have thought the AA did it, is there a recognised company that does do it?
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30s on Google...... www.iaea-online.org/searchnearest.asp?Flash=YF
Helpful . . . . is there one in my area who will take the engine apart, no they just investigate
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