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Ok. So I got my car serviced and had them look inot the engine systems fault messages, etc. They 'suspected' an internal fialure to the throttle body, which would cost £375 to replace. I havn't had it done, and touch wood, no a single blip since the service. There may be something in the oil change thing, whcih seems to be about the only thing they do on a £255 service. Here's hoping the situation doesn't re-materialise, but about 700 miles in, no problems so far.
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I had a friend who asked me to look at his Focus as it "stuttered". I had a look b ut said take it to Ford. They said it needed this and that, but as it was due for a service he instructed a service only, and would look into the fault later - with fingers crossed.
Since the service (basically oil and filter, + sundries = Mars bars and Swarfega) all has been well.
I had the thought about sticking valves on these engines, and Ford changing the oil requirement to 5/30. Evidently the 5/30 is not a fully synthtic, so will degrade faster than a full synthetic. If it does it again before a service is required, it would be interesting to just change the oil and filter for a full synthetic 5/30 or 0/30 and see it fault improves.
Would also be interested to know if these engines are driven gently with the eye on consumption.
(I always drive my cars with an eye to making good progress) and never get these rough running problems. What I spend on fuel is more than saved by lack or parts required!
Just a thought!
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LATEST UPDATE!!.
Have had car fail again several times and have borrowed a OBDII code scanner to plug into car when error has occured. I can now confirm that DTC code indicated is P2135. The generic code scanner describes this code as "Throttle / Pedal Position Sensor / Switch A/B Voltage Correlation". From what I can tell to Ford this code is a "Throttle body fault code" and indicates "Throttle position sensor ratio error".
From what I have researched this is an error on the Throttle body. It has two sensors (A and B) and if the position indicated by the two sensors differs more than a certain amount this error is triggered (as clearly boths sensors can't be right!) and then engine switches to reduced speed mode.
The relatively cheap code scanner I used can ONLY pick up this error while the ignition is still on following the error. If I Turn ignition off and rescan the code is no longer available. I have just had diagnostic run using a high-end professional scanner at a local garage and this comes up with the same P2135 code even after the car has been restarted.
Unfortunately the throttle body costs £210 (just for the part) and I just fear that if I have this replace it may not cure the issue if it is a loose/bad contact issue or wiring loom problem.
Can anyone else confirm that have had problems like this and they have been fixed by replacing throttle body alone?
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I have same problems for past 9 months. They replaced the throttle body but it did not help. Now we are looking into connector board, which costs around 650EUR. I am waiting for a temporary replacement part at my service but I do not believe this will solve the problem.
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My Focus is 57 reg and hence still under Ford warranty. Same symptoms as described by other contributors. To local Ford garage today, couldn't find the fault. They did tell me that for the car to record the fault the engine light has to come on (mine hasn't) and that cars memory deletes any recorded faults after 30 uses of the ignition. Told me that there was an upgrade to improve driveability and this had been done on my car. I'll keep you posted.
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well mine showed the amber engine fault on my dash display,and i must have turned the ignition on and off 100s of times before i got the fault code reader and plugged it into the computer socket under the dash.they must have meant that you have to wait until the onboard computer shows up a fault on the dash.ie a engine fault warning
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hi,my 55 plate ford focus was doing exactly the same thing when i took it onto the motorway! it kept showing the message ENGINE SYSTEM FAILURE, and SPEED LIMIT MODE APPLIED,or words to that nature on the dashboard display.it was also running unevenly around town and seemed short of power.it felt like it was misfiring as you accellerated.i bought myself a OBDII code scanner from ebay for 30 quid and plugged it into the socket in the car,just to the right of the steering wheel.after the scanner searched for a relevant fault code from the cars computer it came up with the error code p2135 same as your car.
i bought a new throttle body from my local ford dealer for 240 pounds and they fitted it for me on tuesday for 40 quid including VAT.
the car has been absolutely fine since and is running like new since i had the new throttle body fitted.hope this helps someone.nice to see there are customer forums,and decent mechanics sharing their experiences and knowledge on here.there are too many money making garages about,who are only interested in making as much money from you as they can!
WHY DONT FORD,OR OTHER DEALERS CHARGE A MINIMAL FEE OF 30 POUNDS OR SO TO DIAGNOSE THE FAULT ON THEIR COMPUTERS? INSTEAD OF THE 110 QUID MY LOCAL ONE ASKED FOR! ISNT IT ENOUGH THAT YOU BUT THE REPLACEMENT PARTS FROM THEM AND LET THEM DO THE WORK? DOESNT EXACTLY ENCOURAGE BRAND AND CUSTOMER LOYALTY DOES IT??
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When my C-Max came down with a similar fault I found that the dealers really don't have a clue when it comes to fixing electrical or sensor faults. The dealer had two attempts at fixing the problem - It broke down on my way back from the dealers after the first time! My dealer had to get a Ford master technician to help as they had no idea what was wrong. In the end checking over the wiring loom and its connections magically fixed the fault, so it might have been a dodgy connector.
Total cost came to over £200, for fault diagnosis and fitting of a £30 part that may not have needed replacing anyway, and of course there was the loss of the car for a week while they tried to fix it. They graciously didn't charge me for checking over the wiring loom as they'd failed to fix the car properly in the first place. Oh and the car was a week out of warranty too. I'm trying to get a goodwill payment from Ford at the moment.
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do they really not have any idea on how to diagnose a specific fault? and are other cars with eloctronic ignition and all these sensors everywhere just to get the engine running,prone to these never ending faults/problems? is it really a case of trial and error for the ford technicians?
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I suspect that as mass produced cas , Ford are thrown togther, so that faults will occur in some and not others. The complex nature of the building means that the average grease monkey cannot possibly understand the electronics.
Are we asking too much of these people? Basically, cars are too cheap because they are made so badly, but economics dictates the price, not the time required to build a relaible motor.
That is why Fords are cheaper than Hondas. But , hey , my Mondy is fine and has been for 4 years now ( petrol) so I say keep them cheap and cheerful.
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fortunately ford systems dont throw up codes like a child throwing teddies out of bed,did i mention vauxhalls?
anyway
the ford tech will use the codes as a guide but that is all they are
he can use his knowledge but every cars different
he cant just nail parts on to try and fix a problem because if it doesnt fix it then this component is now s/h and the next customer would demand new
so you see
modern cars are a pain
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I second that, I have been looking for this problem all over the net. i have bookmarked this site now as i feel i am going to keep having problems with the car.
The mechic i took it too had the same problem with another car, he 'fixed' it by ''resealing the throttle body''. this will stop leakage of extra air into the throttle system and hopefully stops it from throwing the dummy out of the pram and shutting down the engine.
I have 2 55 Plate Focuses, the other one has NEVER had this problem....
I will update after one month of testing.
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We have seen LOADS of focus with throttle body, throttle sensor and wiring and connect problems. Ford wiring is above only french cars and chryslers in the cheap and nasty league. The connector pins arent properly plated so if a bit of water gets into the connector they corrode. The throttle bodies are a bit cheap and often the mating surface is not machined flat so can leak air. remove and replace the gasket, with some jointing compound if necessary. Throttle pedal sensors also prone to early failure. Most ford dealers are pretty hopeless at anything other than oil filter and brake pad changes. Take the car to an independent repairer who is interested in your custom and should charge less than £110 for a simple code read.
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While I agree with some of what you say WT, as an acknowledged VAG specialist your anti Ford stance is a little irritating.
The Focus is a great car and statistically more reliable than a Golf, Ford dealers have been excellent IME and the one time I have needed a code read it was done FOC along with an injector reprogramme as good will despite the car being out of warranty. BTW I understand that they normally charge 30mins labour for a code read which is a lot less than £110.
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I'm not anti-ford, we see loads and loads of focus, they are a popular car, Im jusyt telling it like it is. They drive nicely but let down by quality issues (poor paint, electrics etc).
dont know what you mean by statistically more reliable, but we have more awkward problems with focus than golfs. VAG cars tend to have a number of standard faults that are fairly easy to fix, but we get a lot of niggling and difficult to diagnose faults on the fords.
We currently are looking at an 06 mondeo with electical problems, all the pins in the connector to the door module are corroded so I'm trying to find a scrap loom I can chop the connector off and splice in. its things like this that cause a lot of hassle and take a lot of time to fix. Fords would be much better cars if they painted them better, used better rust protection and raised the standard of their electics.
Dont thing there is an standard labour time for code reading, most dealers seem to charge a set amount which varies randomly from one to another.
Edited by WorkshopTech on 06/01/2010 at 11:21
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Look at Warranty Direct's index WT:
www.warrantydirect.co.uk/reliability_index.html
Try comparing the 97-04 Golf Mk IV with the 98-04 Focus Mk I, the Focus wins hands down, hey even the fuel system is more reliable.
Likewise a Ford v VW comparison is in Ford's favour.
This VW-and-Audi-are-relaible-because-they-are-VW-and-Audi myth has got to be debunked once and for all, they are great cars and there are many I would like, and my next car might even be one though they are simply not better than, say, a Ford per se.
--
One strange thing, WD have Suzuki as the top manufacturer though as I recall JD Power rated Suzuki last in the US (with VW second last as it happens), it may be because there are various Hyundais, Kias or similar badged as Suzuki in the US.
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WD, LOL! The less said about warranty companies the better (we have to deal with them sometimes - my advice: keep your money in the bank for a rainy day). The figures are utterly worthless.
I am not saying VAG cars are particularly reliable, my comments on this thread are concerning the ford.
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My money does not go in the direction of a warranty company though why are their figures worthless, relevant like for like comparisons I would say.
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Just spent a few minutes looking at that WD link. Its not a reliability index at all, its "an index of cost of repair of claims on cars that we cover and are prepared to pay out on".
So when mr focus driver rings them and says 'my focus broke down because the connector pins are all corroded' they say 'sorry sir, wear and tear!'.
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So when mr focus driver rings them and says 'my focus broke down because the connector pins are all corroded' they say 'sorry sir wear and tear!'.
Tosh, that doesnt really warrant comment, of course wiring would not be considered wear and tear as wouldnt VAG coil packs and ABS pumps.
Look at the VAG v Ford electrical system stats, Fords suffer less faults.
Of course wear and tear items such as clutch friction material, brake pads, bulbs etc would not feature.
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NEW Update
I have had the throttle body resealed, this at first seemed to fix the fault...for about 3 months.
About 3 Days ago the car started to display the classic P2135 symptoms.
I would admit it is not as bad as before, but it is b***** annoying.
have taken it back to garage who will check to see if the seal may have failed.
but will also check the inlet manifiolds.
a friend of mine has had this problem on his audi (dont know what the audi code might be)
he had the throttle body replaced and has had no problems.
i am thinking about replacing the throttle body if the car comes up with this problem after i fix it now.
Will keep updating.
BTW - I had a 1.3 Corolla 92 reg with 80k on clock (Cat C)..... all i ever had to do was replace the battery..... it could take the abuse and never fail..... God i miss that car.
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I have a Ford Focus Zetec 1.6 TDCI '55 reg and I have had nothing but problems the whole two years I have owned it!
Granted I knew it had high mileage when I bought it (88k) but in the last two years I have had to replace the Alternator, the Timing Belt and just two days ago the Inlet Manifold.
Now, two days after paying £400 for the inlet manifold I have this "engine systems failure" error coming up and the car won't accelerate properly...
I'm scared to take it back to the garage just for them to charge me another £400! Could I possibly expect them to sort it without charging me ridiculous amounts on the basis that the error has only occured since they were messing about in my engine the other day for the Inlet Manifold?
To be honest I just need a new car but can't afford it right now and I need my car to do my job :-(
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I had a 1.6 Zetec 55PLT Focus with the same problem. after having the throttle body replaced for +£200 it had NO EFFECT.
The problem stayed the same. it was only when i fiddled with the wiring loom that connects the throttle body to the rest of the loom that i was able to replicate the problem at will.
Ii have since replaced the loom and its been over 20 months without a single stutter.
Changing the loom is really easy, the loom itself will cost you around £70 from the ford dealers.
DO NOT GET IT FROM ANYWHERE ELSE, DO NOT GET A CHEAP CHINESE LOOM.
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Saw the 'posting' by Woodspeed
Here we have some 50 people all with serious issues with their cars all along the same fault sequence, and most of them spending almost a grand to franchise delaers to sort out AND yet Woodspeed says we've all got it wrong ! all 50 of us are to blame for pootling along watching our MPG and if we blasted along like he does then our problems would be over............
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