Hi all,
I felt pretty gutted today. Vagcom through up a fault on a cylinder glow plug so I thought I would go ahead and change it (done it before so know how easy it should be). Easily got the old glow plug out. Triple checked the fit on the new glow plug but something went disastrously wrong.
Torqued up the new plug to 15nm and noticed the plug wasn't fully seated in the cylinder block. So tried turning the driver anti-clockwise to have another go. Half way round the pressure became too much for the new plug and it broke about half a cm up from the head. The electrode is intact, but the shaft just below the nut bit on the plug is broke, meaning the nut now turns with no force. There is no visible leakage when I start the car though...at the moment.
I hate the fact the plug is broken and am wondering if anyone else has had this problem and has successfully extracted the plug without taking the whole head off?
To clarify, there is about half a cm of thread from the glow plug visible above the cylinder head, but how would I get a good bite on that to extract the plug?
I am too scared to break the electrode off and try to extract the remaining plug, as there is a large possibility I will make things 10 times worse. I am looking for a garage or someone that has experience of dealing with this who is in the North West, to give an opinion of what to do.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Edited by Pugugly on 27/02/2009 at 20:46
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I plan on attempting to drill the glow plug out maybe next week. But I need a contingency plan in case it all ends in tears. Worst possible scenario will be to have someone take off the cylinder block, remove the plug(or debris) or put it back on with a new plug.
Any idea how much this would cost, and anyone recommend a good person or garage to do it in the North West?
Thanks.
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Tecas if you wait until Monday, the experts on this site will be back at work!
I don't know what to do about the glow plug, but don't do anything before you get advice.
Edited by quizman on 01/03/2009 at 10:28
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"The electrode is intact, but the shaft just below the nut bit on the plug is broke, meaning the nut now turns with no force"
I dont quite understand that comment.
Can you get a concentric roller stud extractor on to it?
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if you can manage to put up a picture of it on somewhere like photobucket then link to it here it would help considerably.
chris
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"The electrode is intact but the shaft just below the nut bit on the plug is broke meaning the nut now turns with no force" I dont quite understand that comment. Can you get a concentric roller stud extractor on to it?
I have ordered a set of stud extractors. There is not enough space to to use a concentric one though. Thanks.
I have uploaded a picture of the offending plug here.
www.flickr.com/photos/29288059@N07/3318990585/
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Tecas if you wait until Monday the experts on this site will be back at work! I don't know what to do about the glow plug but don't do anything before you get advice.
That's good advice in itself :-)
If it all goes horribly wrong and a piece of the electrode falls into the cylinder chamber, does anyone know of a good mobile diesel mechanic in the North West please?
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Will the engine start on 3 plugs and get the engine hot then with what you have left put mole grips over the old plug and "work" it back and forth till it comes out?
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If you're going to use grips, or an eccentric roller stud remover, you'll need to clean/drill out a section of the plug and fit a metal plug, or else the wall of the glow plug will just collapse in.
As bigtee says, getting the engine hot will help.
Once the plug is out, it may be worth reaming the hole, to clean out any encrusted carbon deposits.
If you can't unscrew the plug , then, carefully drill out the end of the plug until you can pick out or cut out the threaded section of the plug. Then, tap an internal thread into the remaining body of the plug, and pull the plug out using some studding, tube, nuts and washers.
If you have a spare old plug, you'll be able to break / take it apart on the bench, and decide what the appropriate drill and tap sizes are before doing it for real.
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www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=58654
The man above got his out by out-sourcing to Maynard.
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"You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page."
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www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=58654 The man above got his out by out-sourcing to Maynard.
It says I must register to view that info'? Who are Maynard? Thanks.
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Will the engine start on 3 plugs and get the engine hot then with what you have left put mole grips over the old plug and "work" it back and forth till it comes out?
The engine starts well and I can get it hot. The only way I can see of getting this glow plug out is to cut the nipple bit off together with the nut just underneath, and then try a drill and extractor of some sort. But am I skating on thin ice doing this? Maybe it's a risk worth taking, but I need a contingency plan....like knowing that someone can come out to me who will do a good job of removing it (if it means taking off the head etc), and won't charge me main dealer prices :-)
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You are right to go carefully with this problem. I get the feeling that you may refer the job to a specialist, which may well be the best course of action for you.
I have in the past shifted glowplugs with a fractured body at this point by removing the internals of the plug. Twist and pull the top part with self-lock grips, then drill into the body using a drill marker sleeve and a new plug as a guide. With a resulting nice hollow tube screwed into the head (without hex), find a Torx bit which will hammer into the glowplug remnant. Get the engine hot and unscrew it using a "T" handle so as to minimise sideways forces.
Stud extractors with a coarse left hand spiral thread can also be used in this situation. I don't like them very much because they tend to expand the plug body, being tapered and are also very hard indeed. If one of these snaps off, you have a real job on your hands. Torx bits are tough and bend a bit before they break...
Best of luck.
659.
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To put it blunt your up the creek without a paddle.!!
Take it to a few garages and ask there opinion you might get some good ideas but it still may snap clean off when they do it so the head will be coming off.
No easy answer sorry.
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Sounds like a good idea. I joined the vwaudi forum mentioned earlier and Maynards is unfortunately based in Gloucestershire. Someone has mentioned a specialist in Manchester though so I might pay them a visit at the end of the week.
I am also considering ripping the nipple off with a pair of pliers and seeing if I can get a rounded bolt extractor around the little thread remaining (slim chance). Would ripping the nipple off pose further problems though, like electrode falling away into the chamber of doom?
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Try Lockstitch in Rochdale. Not a VW specialist, but a very competent engine and cylinder head specialists.
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www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=58654
May help, however yours appears to have siezed on the way out. Regards Peter
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Try Lockstitch in Rochdale. Not a VW specialist but a very competent engine and cylinder head specialists.
Excellent, thanks for the info'. Have you used them before, if so what for? Did they take good care of your vehicle?
Do you or anyone else know of a reputable mobile engine mechanic also in the North West? Thanks.
Edited by tecas on 02/03/2009 at 18:29
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if it breaks off just below the nut section then it looks like you'll have enough room to weld a nut on top and wind it out with that.
chris
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if it breaks off just below the nut section then it looks like you'll have enough room to weld a nut on top and wind it out with that.
Good suggestion, thanks. But well beyond my capability. Do you know of anyone that might do this serious welding in the North West?
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I always sent them bits of engine to work on rather than a full car, because I did the dis-assembly and assembly work myself. I was happy with the work they did.
It's probably worth giving them a ring, and finding out what service they will offer - I think they do on-site work, although I've never used it.
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I always sent them bits of engine to work on rather than a full car because I did the dis-assembly and assembly work myself. I was happy with the work they did. It's probably worth giving them a ring and finding out what service they will offer - I think they do on-site work although I've never used it.
Cool, I will certainly look more into it on my days off (I work shifts). You mentioned you did (dis-)assembly work yourself. Do you do work for others, I would gladly recompense if you think you are up to it :-)
Thanks.
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>>Do you do work for others
Sorry, I can't help you there - I haven't done any work on cars outside the family for some years now.
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I tried drilling though an old plug to about 1cm, the lower electrode didn't fall out. On this basis, drilled a small hole in the stuck plug, used an extractor....and it didn't go according to plan.
The plug turned counter-clockwise after a bit of an effort, and now it just turns freely without coming out of the block. So at least partially stripped thread in the block/plug! And the plug won't pull out, although there is a couple of mm movement in and out. So it will mean block out now I guess.
I have been quoted £370 by a mobile mechanic for head removal, remove plug, insert new thread, head fitment. Does this sound reasonable?
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hi i have done the same the nut on the top of the plug turns but is snapped . been to see a deisel guy and told me about 350 and the head will have to come off. but he also said you can just leave it ,it wont cause any probs to the motor its not going anywhere.
the guy also told me that all rover diesel motors only have 3 heater plugs as the pump is in the way so they left out the 4th.
so mine is still as it is runs fine,lot of money just to have the car perfect.
vw bora 19tdi
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