You do NOT have to change the coolant every 2 years on many cars. Certainly not on Ford, VW or John Deere tractors.
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Quizman
I don't have a VW tractor. Sorry! OK, what's the current thinking then? I'm ready to learn, especially if it saves £s.
JH
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Never, ever service your car, save £0000s OK?
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The comment above re testing is helpful.
Our VW polo had its brake fluid tested last Feb - I asked for a fluid change. Their advice was "fluid ok this time, but change at next service".
When it comes to the brakes on my car, I'm very cautious. The consequences of brake failure don't bear thinking about.
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I'm finding this thread a bit of a puzzle. On the one hand, I drove cars in the past for many years without even thinking about the brake fluid except when changing pads. On the other hand, whatever Ford and others may say in the US, my Mondeo handbook is absolutely clear that a 2-yearly change is required. So too on our Picanto (which was reported as "amber" on its first annual service). I find it a bit hard to believe that such a consistent set of recommendations is just drummed up by the distributors in the UK to support the dealers. So what's it all about? Perhaps as some have suggested the "sponginess" associated with water creeps up on one without really being noticed. Or is it the ABS point which is the killer? Anyhow, if it is blackmail, it is effective as far as I am concerned: they get changed at 2 years.
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ABS I was told (on this very website)
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ABS I was told - by our Toyota dealer on Friday when the Aygo was in for a service. A few quid every two years for a fluid change or a new ABS pump? I prefer preventative maintenance.
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Whenever I undo the bleed nipples to lose a bit of fluid to push the pistons back when changing the pads, the fluid comes out as clean as the stuff in the reservoir. I've never found any 'dirty' fluid.
Can someone tell me how the 'dirty' fluid in the caliper gets back into the ABS pump? If there's any movement, fluid only ever goes one way, certainly not from the wheel back to the ABS under the bonnet
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>>Can someone tell me
Diffusion
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One of the front wheels (the ones that do most of the braking and hit the puddles first) is only around 2 feet from the ABS pump on most cars, 10 year old unchanged fluid thats been stirred on every application of the brake pedal, gets shoved back up to the pump when the brake pads are changed when the pistons are pushed back (bad practice I now, but it still happens rather than the prefered method of opening the bleed nipple).
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I've pulled enough slave and master cylinders apart over the years to replace seals etc, and seen the evidence of gunge, and rusty coloured moisture laden fluid to convince me that regular fluid changes are worth the very reasonable cost involved.
Whether fleet managers think it worth it or not doesn't mean a great deal, i used to work for a large company in the 80's who ran VW/Audi diesel company cars, they had a policy of not replacing cambelts, strangely enough the rest of the in house servicing was good, quite bizarre.
Presumably the many thousands of pounds involved in the gradual replacement of most of the engines on the fleet made some sort of economic sense to someone.
And by the way, i have had total brake failure though not through heavy braking...i borrowed my sisters Wartburg Knight many years ago and after travelling down the motorway for some 50 miles without braking, when i applied the brakes on the slip road, foot to floor..nothing, luckily the handbrake was very good, i changed the fluid for good quality stuff and the problem never recurred, i had put it down to cheap rubbish fluid, but still unsure.
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Oh come on, the handbrake will not stop a car very quickly.
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Oh come on the handbrake will not stop a car very quickly.
Just as well it did though, as descending the A1M South slip road for the Welwyn turn off, thats the only thing that pulled the car up, being 2 stroke the engine braking was all but zero and having freewheel (do you know i can't remember if that was switchable, or indeed if sisters car had it, but i'm sure it did) didn't help with that anyway.
They were big drums on the rear of the Wartburg, unlike more modern cars often with rear disc brakes and tiny handbrake shoes inside the inner drum.
I certainly wouldn't want to stop my ageing MB on the parking brake, several hundred yards later would be the likely result.
You've made me think here QM, and i fully understand your disbelief, many of my older generation cars had superb handbakes easily capable of locking the rear wheels at quite high speeds, is there a modern car that could do the same?
The thought of similar failure with an electric handbraked car makes me shudder, not as i'm ever going to find out.
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>> being 2 stroke the engine braking was all but zero and having freewheel (do you know i can't remember if that was switchable, or indeed if sisters car had it, but i'm sure it did) didn't help with that anyway.
Probably not switchable. I've driven a four-stroke SAAB99 that had a switchable freewheel but my understanding was that the freewheel, though retained as a fuel economy measure, was originally included in the two-stroke cars to protect them from siezure during engine braking, when the engine would be relatively un-lubricated on a premix 2-stroke.
If thats correct, it'd defeat the object to make it switchable.
Apologies if this is obvious, and for going off the 'tis/tisn't topic, but perhaps its a bit of a break from brakes.
The SAAB owner was scared of the freewheel and never used it. (I coast a lot anyway so I loved it). Didn't want to sell the car but, I heard later, scrapped it when the handbrake failed.
Terrible waste of machinery.
Edited by edlithgow on 15/01/2014 at 03:20
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Saab freewheel was still around when they fitted the Ford V4 and that was a four-stroke.
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Dox, as you probably know, the USA is one of the most litigious societies on this planet.
Bear that in mind when you read that: GM, Ford and Chrysler
" .. have no recommendation for brake fluid service based on moisture because it's not considered a safety threat or service issue. "
" the brake fluid in their vehicles lasts the life of the vehicle ".
Technology has moved on from the sixties and seventies, except for those who are stuck in a British Leyland mentality, and still play records on a gramaphone.
Same applies to long-life oil. You may be changing your 20w50 dead-dinosaur derived oil every 3000 miles while the new world changes 0w30 synthetic oil every 20,000 miles.
What's an iPod and iTunes, did I hear someone ask?
Edited by jbif on 25/01/2009 at 15:16
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We've got a wind up gramophone, record deck, CD player, Ipod...........All have their merits.
Change your synthetic you say? Surelly its sealed for life like gearboxes in the good old US of A. Glad you mentioned America, they're going cap in had to their government for handouts because they've been so far up their own backsides they've been producing dinosaurs for years and now no one wants to buy them :oO
They ignore the rest of the worlds car manufacturers recommendations for because they know best and wonder why there engines are full of sludge.
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>>It's the moisture in the (hygroscopic) moisture absorbing brake fluid that causes the damage.
I don't think that's true.
I did think exactly that - it's the standard view - but, I'm not sure anymore.
I have known about the problem of metal ions in the brake fluid for some time, but, I didn't think it was the over-riding concern. I'm prepared to be convinced either way, but I would need to see something a bit more scientific, preferably published in a peer reviewed journal.
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Anyone who has tried to bleed long neglected braking systems will know:
1, The bleed valves are probably rusted closed
2. The flats on the valves have corroded so you need to use mole grips.
3 The bleed screws will snap off if not treated carefully.
4. The barkle fluid inside the calipers/wheel cylinders is full of muck.
So whether or not a fluid change is needed or not, an inspection and bleed every 2-3 years in the long run keeps the car safer.
Of course if you only buy new cars and keep for 3 years, none of the above is relevant.
And in my experiience, the Japanese designed braking systems have much sturdier bleed screws than European ones.
Since the US car industry stopped leading car technology roughly after the invention of the automatic transmission, I ignore everything they do. The industry there is roughly 25 years out of date technologically and 100 years in outlook,
(The story of the introduction of disk brakes to US muscle cars is worth reading. 450hp claimed and front drum brakes... )
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Since the US car industry stopped leading car technology roughly after the invention of the automatic transmission I ignore everything they do. The industry there is roughly 25 years out of date technologically and 100 years in outlook (The story of the introduction of disk brakes to US muscle cars is worth reading. 450hp claimed and front drum brakes... )
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Aye, they were meant to go, not stop ;-)
As for stopping leading car technology, your airbags, side impact bars, air con, power windows/seats, locks, remote mirrors, and much more were all US innovations.
In 1971 you could still buy a Morris Minor or Morris Oxford....nothing available this side of the pond with 450 brake though... ;-)
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"I did think exactly that - it's the standard view - but, I'm not sure anymore."
Why is it that you are not sure anymore NC?
Edited by Pugugly on 25/01/2009 at 19:36
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They ignore the rest of the worlds car manufacturers recommendations for because they know best and wonder why there engines are full of sludge.
Can't see how, seeing as most Americans change their oil and filter every 3000 miles. They ran 15-30 oil for donkeys years too as they had hydraulic tappets (introduced by Cadillac in the fifties IIRC). Britain caught up 30 years later with the Cavalier ;-)
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ABS makes it more imperative to change the fluid regularly. The increased compressibility of brake fluid with 2% or more moisture content seriously affects ABS performance.
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