A few years ago, I had an 18 month old Ford Escort, which I had bought new. Someone drove into the back of it. It was repaired, which included welding, at the insurer's repairers. A few years later, someone else drove into the back of it. It fell apart where it had been welded after the first accident.
If you examine your insurance policy, you may find that if the car is less than a year old and badly damaged, then it will be replaced by a new car. Clearly, if it repaired or replaced by your own insurers, you will not lose out because the third party have admitted liability.
The best of luck, but you do not want to accept a repaired car!
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What do your insurers say?
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Thank you all for all of your replies. As a result of this I have now asked the right questions, so thank you!
Essentially my insurers are saying, let the 3rd party insurers repair the car (as is their right to do). The damage is supposedly not as bad as it looks, however I have been to the repair shop this morning and had a good chat with the estimator who said they haven't taken any panels off to look behind to see the full extent of the damage and therefore the costs so far are only "estimated" based on what is visible to the eye. He said it with such a wry smile that the final costs will obviously escalate once they get into the meat of the job, put it on a jig and start cutting out metal. In many ways, who could blame the repair shop, they could probably do with the work (like all of us at the moment) and I am not holding them in anyway responsible for the car being either repaired or written off, they are just doing their job.
My insurers are essentially talking about going down the route of claiming for "diminution of value", which can only be established once the car has been repaired. Essentially a value is negotiated that is designed to recompsense the claimant for the "value" lost. This tends to be available more so to cars under 12 months old, prestige, sports and classic cars, that is not to say that a 4 year old family car would not also be applicable.
I think what we will be doing is taking the repaired car to an Audi dealer and getting a price on the car with them having full knowledge of the repairs and the accident that took place and ask them for a price that they would be willing to buy the car for and also a price for the car had the accident and subsequent repairs not occured.
What I shall then do is ask for the difference between what I can sell the car for and what it will cost to replace the car (like for like) from an Audi dealer. On this basis, assuming a like for like car is about £38K and they would offer £25Kish for the damage repaired car I will be looking for £13K diminution. Then I will actually sell the car, add the £13K in diminution and go and buy a 3 month old immaculate A5, like mine was. It would then seem fair to me that I have not been prejudiced or put to a disadvantage by some one who has clearly accepted responsibility and liability for the accident.
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Who is going to be doing the repair?
I would be insisting on an audi dealer repairing on the basis that (a) it would maintain the warranty re bodywork and (b) might push the cost up sufficiently to make it a write off.
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Audi dealer only for me too. Even if they farm it out I'd rather they deal with it. The A5 is a new car and quite rare. Very few will have been through a major rebuild job so trusting anyone other than the main dealer with it is a leap of faith.
I've seen the way a smart was 'repaired' after being put in the hands of an insurance company outfit rather than a smart specialist. After 12 months of messing around it was eventually written off.
Edited by daveyjp on 07/10/2008 at 13:07
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and go and buy a 3 month old immaculate A5, like mine was
and how are you going to check that the rplacement car has not been subject to any damage and repairs? The selling dealer cannot be relied upon to tell the whole story. If they take your car as a PE it will be interesting to see where and at what price it is resold.
If you look at some previous posts on the amount of damage repaired by dealers after delivery you may find that you are buying similar but unknown troubles!
Maybe the answer is to buy and collect from the factory production line, altho whether this option is available for Audis I do no know.
Edited by pmh2 on 07/10/2008 at 14:30
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Yes, it is with an Audi bodyshop... its going to be 6 weeks before the car sees daylight again... in the meantime I'm using an almost identical car on a loan car from Accident Exchange.
On this note, it appears that the person/s who has set this company up has found a great niche for themselves. Basically, they provided a near identical car within 3 hours of the accident delivered to my home address, rather than a low end rental car two weeks after the accident, once the insurance companies decide to kick in. Their pitch is that they will provide an equal or better car your own that was involved in the accident. They will also recover all of their costs from the 3rd party and if they do not manage to recover all of their costs from the 3rd party they have their own insurance programme that pays them out.
Sounds bizzare but from the way I see it essentially the 3rd party (who admits the liability) pays for this insurance product to protect Accident Exchange and its client (me), very clever. Meaning Accident Exchange give you a great car within hours of the accident and take all of the hassle and cost liability away from you (the client) and you keep the car until yours is returned.
I did look at the charges on the contract and thought they were horribly high (put it this way you could lease the car for a month for what they were charging for 2 days), but I am told these are normally negotiated downwards. But, so far, a great service and they are the only ones who appear to want to keep in contact. I guess they want to sell on their additional services such as repairs, negotiation, injuries etc... So, thumbs up Accident Exchange.
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I did look at the charges on the contract and thought they were horribly high
note warning at bottom of HJ's FAQ
www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=33
www.nacho.org.uk
CREDIT HIRE: 39 separate FAQ answers and explanations (written from the point of view of the credit hire operators).
These are the people who fix you up with a car to keep you on the road while your car is being fixed, which can take 6 months or more if some parts are not available.
WARNING: The proliferation of aftercrash Credit Hire is costing insurers vast amounts of money and this is one of the main reasons for significant rises in Insurance Premiums. Nothing is for Nothing.
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No names, no pack drill, but there's another well-known name in the accident car hire business that's in dire straights because it can't re-coup the full hire charges on the cars it's giving out to people like the OP.
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Would have thought the hire charges for an A5 to be charged against the third party might have been enough to sway it towards write-off? Or do they not know yet that these charges are heading their way?
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.. the hire charges for an A5 to be charged against the third party might have been enough to sway it towards write-off?
Read the alleged case of a solicitor here:
boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10983196
"..... In November 2004 I was involved in a no-fault accident. I was driving a Merc SLK 350 that I'd bought just 3 weeks earlier, so I was not a happy bunny.
I reasoned that with such a new car it should go back to the main dealer for repairs, and took it to my local Merc dealer. They said that as part of the wonderful service given to the buyer of such a prestige vehicle they would arrange a replacement car of the same type at no expense to me, courtesy of a company called Accident Exchange.
Needless to say, I was mightily impressed, and true to their word a brand new SLK 350 was delivered to my door in no time at all.
I was obviously aware that it was technically a hire car, but I was again told by the rep who delivered the car that all the hire charges would be recovered from the other driver's insurers. In any event, being in the trade I knew that this was the standard practice of all credit hire companies. .....
I'd largely forgotten about it until last summer when I received a County Court Summons from ACE for approximately £24,000! On reading this it became clear that the total `hire' bill from ACE had amounted to no less than £29,378.67. ACE had `only' managed to screw £6,000 out of the insurers, and were (and technically still are) therefore suing me for the balance. ..... .... "
The above is a very heavily edited portion of a long thread. You must read it in full to get a true and fair picture. You have to judge yourself what if fact or fiction or opinion.
Edited by jbif on 07/10/2008 at 17:12
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I read a similar tale in a local newspaper not that long ago. Owner stuffed for hire charges amounting to about £14,000.
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No names no pack drill but there's another well-known name in the accident car hire business that's in dire straights because it can't re-coup the full hire charges on the cars it's giving out to people like the OP.
They all have a very dodgy business model. You have a duty to minimise the insurers costs - no problem if you really need a particular type of vehicle but courts have found against people who have hired like for like when it wasn't deemed necessary.
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I used the one in "dire" difficulties a couple of years back. Thought they were OK. Provided me with a brand new colt for about 5 weeks - think the bill was 900 - a little steep, but not to far OTT
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When I had my old 325tds I was the innocent party in a crash. Went through the BMW dealer, who organised everything with the insurance companies and a brand new 325tds was loaned. Doesn't audi have a similar scheme that you could use?
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A friend of mine is a barrister who spends a great deal of her time in court acting in credit hire cases.
Inevitably the insurance company will not pay up the outrageous rates to the credit hire company. The main crux of the argument is that (because you are a reasonably well-off person) you would have been able to hire a car from Hertz at a sensible rate, and thus did not need a credit-hire car. The balance of the contract is dumped on the punter. Be very, very, very careful unless you are paid the minimum wage and your credit card is maxed out and you have no savings. Only then is it appropriate to hire a car at these outrageous rates - in exchange for not paying the bill up front.
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a brand new 325tds was loaned.
I'll be prepared to bet large amounts of money that it wasn't "loaned" - the other parties insurer will have been sent a hefty bill.
Doesn't audi have a similar scheme that you could use?
They all have similar schemes and I suspect the OP has gone through Audi as the car is at an Audi bodyshop. They're all basically agents for the accident management companies - they're keen for you to use the "Audi", "BMW" etc service as they get hefty commission.
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They all have similar schemes and I suspect the OP has gone through Audi as
the car is at an Audi bodyshop. They're all basically agents for the accident management
companies - they're keen for you to use the "Audi" "BMW" etc service as they
get hefty commission.
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Hi,
I used to work in an Audi bodyshop and a large percentage of the work was Accident Exchange related. If a customer came in for an estimate for a non-fault accident, they were talked round to using Accident Exchange, and before they knew it,the customer was driving away in a similar "loan" car whilst there own car would be repaired.
Accident Exchange offer to the dealer many forms of generous rewards for any dealer staff who introduces customers to them, one of which was a pair of concert tickets for Madonna at Cardiff's Millenium's Stadium, which one of the office girls recieved.
This just shows the profits to be made by Accident Exchange, but i can probably guess this is why all our insurance policy prices are that bit higher don't you think?
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Hi,
Forgot to add in that the bodyshop in question changed the labour rates if they knew that the final bill was to be charged to Accident Exchange.
The usual labour rate was around £30ph for most insurance companies, but this increased to £45ph for Accident Exchange.They also grossly over-estimated but did'nt always fit all the estimated parts. FRAUD!!
Does'nt make it right, but this was normal practice at the Audi bodyshop i worked in.. could be normal practice everywhere, i don't know, but i have morals and i now work for an indy bodyshop.
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>>Does'nt make it right, but this was normal practice at the Audi bodyshop i worked in.. could be normal practice everywhere, i don't know, but i have morals and i now work for an indy bodyshop.
This doesnt surprise me after my recent, and ongoing, problems with a particular Audi bodyshop. They want to be careful as they might get a reputation!! I certainly wont be buying a new Audi from my local dealer or getting mine/future one serviced there - Ever!
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It's not just Audi.
A young man of my acquaintance had a job as a junior gopher in a Renault garage. In came a Clio which had been purchased only a few days before, but now had a dented front wing. The garage quoted £500 for a replacement, and when the customer had accepted the quote and gone, my young friend was handed a hairdryer. The wing is some sort of plastic, and after a quick warmup with the dryer it popped out again, good as new.
£500 for 5 minutes' work is, I think, about £6,000 per hour?
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This is proving more and more interesting...
1) I think that companies such as Accident Exchange are clearly displaying that Insurance Companies have not really got their stall sorted out. If there clearly was no need then the likes of Accident Exchange wouldn't exist. However, I think it is true to say that insurance companies tend to be very slow to react and as yet haven't worked out "deals" with suppliers (of say hire cars) in order to minimise costs for themselves and us all. It is on these occassions that I find insurance companies to be somewhat ignorant/arrogant knowing they can raise premiums in order to recover losses and leave everyone else to sort it out. Not what you would call service
2) I am talking with my insurer with regards the car that has been "loaned". Audi were very quick to recommend this and sort it out and equally say this was the best method, via AE and yet I remain concerned about the costs. I agree that all is not watertight with regards come back on me although the paperwork seems to state that if they do not recover all of the costs or partial costs from the 3rd party insurer then they have put an insurance policy in place that lets them recover the monies rather than from me. However, thinking about it some more there is no reason why the underwriters of this so called insurance couldn't try and subrogate the claim.
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