Can anyone tell me which is the best engine for this little car? There seems to be virtually nothing in it regarding power and torque and I would imagne that the smaller engine is sweeter. What is this engine like? Is it long lived and does it go alright? I know it has twin spark ignition but it is only a single cam 8 valve isn't it. Does this mean it will be unwilling to rev?
Finally where are these made? I heard china and a new one seems expensive for a car made with cheap chinese labour and i am worried the build may be bad. A friend asked me about the car, the other vehicle he is looking at is the base model Fabia 1 1.2 with aircon. That is well built car but only has 55 bhp. Any ideas and feedback?
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Hi,
I've heard reports that the 1.2 is a sweeter unit, nice and peppy, whereas the 1.4 is a little flat. You're right in saying that there's not a lot in it power-wise, though the 1.2 would be slightly more economical, and probably more eager. Personally I think a 1.2 is more than adequate for this car. The 1.2 is fitted to the base model, so if you can live without air con, I'd plump for this unit over the 1.4. Quite a few 1-3 year old 1.2 models are at car supermarkets, and I remember seeing 3 nice ones at my local supermarket a couple of months ago (Stebbings, King's Lynn). If I were you I'd stick with silver, grey, vivid blue or black. Don't be tempted by the awful yellow or pink hues - unless resale potential is unimportant to you.
Hope this helps.
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Hi Mattbod, I just re-read your post, and would add that the Jazz scores extremely highly in JD power surveys, so there should be no real problems with build. The 1.2 Jazz engine is miles ahead of the 1.2 Fabia engine, which if it's the base model will be the lower powered VAG unit and be pretty breathless for this heavier car, lacking the zest of the Jazz's 1.2. There are also known problems with this 1.2 unit (see car-by-car guide on here). Of course many owners love their Fabias and it is a very good car, but I've long been a fan of Japanese cars! My money would go on the Jazz, as it's likely to give years of reliable service and is sufficiently numerous that parts are not as expensive as they used to be for Japanese cars.
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We have a 1.4 Jazz and it has sufficient power, though I could imagine not enough for the "enthusiastic" driver. I spoke to a friend who bought the 1.2 Jazz rather than the 1.4 for economic reasons. She is disappointed by the lack of power of the 1.2 and is not a boy racer, she's a community nurse doing mostly city driving.
I believe that the Jazz is now built in China, though some may still come from Japan. I've not heard of any build quality problems. Japanese labour is probably more expensive than UK labour, so if you want affordable cars I think you just have to accept them being built in countries with low labour costs. When the Chinese people reach our standard of living maybe Africa will start building cars.
If you have issues over Chinese human rights, think back to the days when old soldiers who had been in Burma wouldn't touch a Japanese built car.
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8 valve engines tend to have better torque at low revs than 16 valve engines and we find our 5 yr old 1.4 Jazz perfectly adequate for city and urban use, and the odd airport run along the motorway. The 1.2 & 1.4 engines are exactly the same other than capacity so I don't know why one should be "sweeter". Personally, I wouldn't have a Jazz without a/c, and that's only available with the 1.4.
Our just passed 5th year MOT with no issues.
They've been made in China for the last couple of years and I'm less than thrilled about the idea of that, especially as it's still sold at "Japanese"prices. Somewhat surprisingly, the new Jazz will use VTEC engines. I gather they need to be revved for the VTEC system to come into effect, which is an unlikely scenario for most Jazzii. I hope it's still nice to drive around town. We will almost certainly buy the new Jazz quite soon.
We also have the VAG 1.2 engine in a SEAT Ibiza. Of course it's 3cyl and it's really not a nice engine at low speeds, being very noisy and juddery. It feels like there's an engine mount missing (we've had it from new and I'm assured there isn't!). Once up and running it's fine - it's much happier running along flowing A roads than around town,
Our Ibiza (of course basically same as Fabia) just miserably failed it's 4yr MOT on rear brakes, and worn suspension bushes. Factory fitted Dunlop rear tyres were also noted as "perished".
We also have 1.1 Mitsubishi Colt - again a 3cyl but much nicer that the VAG unit. It is said that the 3 cyl 1.1 engine seems more willing than the 1.3 4cyl. If you want a cheap car that looks very much like Jazz then a 5dr Colt would do the job, and it has features annoyingly lacking on Jazz, such as intermittant rear wiper. Our local dealer is doing both 3 & 5dr Colts for £6500 and they have a cheap 3yr servicing package. We paid £500 extra for a/c but this is one car where you might get away with it as it has a ridiclously forceful ventilation system. Only issue with ours is gearchange is very baulky - I believe they vary and Mitsubishi's are noted for this. Colt's are built in Holland, by the way. There's a slightly facelifted one due in the next couple of months.
I do have some doubts about Mistubishi dealers, and the importer, Colt UK are most unhelpful. If it wasn't for those things, I'd very seriously think about having another Colt instead of a new Jazz.
Edited by Bill Payer on 24/08/2008 at 10:54
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I should have also added that poor fuel consumption is a known issue with the VAG 1.2 engine, and ours max's out at 35MPG. Jazz and Colt do 50MPG no bother.
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I think the China issue will be a deal breaker against a new Jazz for my friend as he doesn't like the fact that he is still paying the price of the Japanese cars for one built in China. Maybe te quality is as good but the profit magins must be astronomical. I actually have been in a 1.4 jazz and, initial pickup is good as it has that low down 8 valve torque delivery. A high revving jewel it is not however. The trouble with the i VTECS are they are very peaky in my experience. get the revs high and they fly and sound like a muted down touring car but low down....
I think i'll tell them to get a used Jazz and get the Jap id code off he net.
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If you are buying new, do not buy the existing models which are very flimsy & poorly made despite the over enthusiastic reviews. The top edge of the front door has ajagged finish and is very dangeroud, I nearly lost an eye and damaged my face. The new model arrives in October>>
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If you are buying new do not buy the existing models which are very flimsy
Having owned one (used mainly by my wife and kids) for 5yrs I really can't think what you mean. The car feels very solid and well put together, as though it will last for ever, and has had not a single fault, not even a bulb has blown, in 5yrs. It's just passed its 5th year MOT with not even an advisory.
It's been used in supermarket and city centre multistory car parks and no-one has ever inpaled themselves on the door top.
I saw your other post about having a CVT and it only doing 34MPG. Perhaps that's a clue as to the way you treat cars - our manual shows 50MPg easily in urban driving and I've driven a CVT and had no problem getting the same MPG from that.
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I'm with Bill. Wife has a Jazz and while in some areas it's clearly a specced up cheap car (mats!) it is well & solidly put together. MPG is not quite up to Bill's standard going back & forth to work but 50 mpg (1.4) is easily achievable on a long run. As for jagged door top ... !!! ???
JH
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Agree - the Jazz is excellent in every way except that it could be a little bit livelier. Let's hope that the new 1.4 with, we're told, 100 bhp, will be more accelerative than the current one (82 bhp I think) and also more relaxed at motorway speeds.
I personally wouldn't worry if some of them are made in China; I'm sure that Honda impose the same high standards of componentry and assembly as they do in Japan - and Swindon.
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A,
"it could be a little bit livelier." I'd agree with that sentiment but HJ's report shows;
"1.4 petrol 5-speed manual: 0-60 13.0 seconds; top speed 106mph". Goodness knows what it weighs!
I'm trying to remember what the 0 - 60 time was on my Rover 214, which I think was 98 bhp before the engine was revised to 104bhp(?). And that was in 1990 ish.
JH
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Thanks, JH. I remember that figure of 13.0 seconds to 60 mph - it was what my Austin Maxi HL was quoted as doing when I got it new in 1973.
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Found it! Back in 1989 - Rover 214 - 95bhp & 0 - 60 in 11.3 seconds. So what's the Jazz doing for the other 1.7?
www.aronline.co.uk/index.htm?r8storyf.htm
So in 19 years Honda have found another 5 bhp and gained 1.7 seconds on the 0 - 60 time. I know we're going to be told about air bags, crumple zones and so forth but I can remember when 100bhp was a lot and not something you found in a shopping trolley (with apologies to Honda & all Jazz owners).
JH
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Found it! Back in 1989 - Rover 214 - 95bhp & 0 - 60 in 11.3 seconds.
What was its MPG though?
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B
mid 30s if I recall correctly. My first 16 valve and you generally had to be 2 gears lower than you expected! But eeh, bah gum, it were cheap back then!
JH
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Bill Payer wrote:
They've been made in China for the last couple of years and I'm less than thrilled about the idea of that, especially as it's still sold at "Japanese"prices.
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So long as the quality is OK, why does it matter where it's made?
That's just snobbery.
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That's just snobbery.
No, it's not.
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Perhaps you could explain why?
Assuming that the quality is the same, why does it matter where the car is made?
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Perhaps you could explain why?
It's not snobbery because my house, like most other people's, is full of Chinese made stuff.
Assuming that the quality is the same why does it matter where the car is made?
I don't have terribly strong feelings about this (otherwise I wouldn't have anything Chinese in the house) but I feel it's one thing buying low cost household and electrical items and quite another to buy much more valuable items such as cars, as they have a big effect on China's trade balance with the rest of the world. I'm not thrilled about the idea of helping the economy (any more than I have to) of a country with a questionable human rights record.
I do also have an issue with the pricing - we accept Chinese made stuff, often with some resignation, because it's cheap, or there's really no other choice. The price of many items is astonishing - £10 DVD players, for example. However Jazz isn't cheap - it looks like it'll be sold at the same (or even higher) price as European and Japanese made rival models, so the consumer isn't seeing any advantage in the car being made in a low labour cost environment.
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