This is my last stop with this problem - the scrap heap is next!!!
BMW E46 320D sport 150 bhp (build date march/2003)
(Current approx Mileage ? 132,000 miles
SYMPTOM: Car not boosting properly @ 2000 revs ? I estimate that car is down approx 40 ? 50 % of boost at 2000 revs MPG gone from 45mpg to 37mpg
LIST OF PARTS CHANGED TO DATE
1. Turbo Charger @ 110,000 miles ? work carried out by independent mechanic. Crank Case breather also changed.
2. Catalytic converter @ 110,000 miles ? Independent mechanic
NOTE : Car boost was perfect at this point ? and only seemed noticeable from 120,000 miles on.
3. Fuel Pump to fuel tank @ 125,000 Miles ? Independent mechanic
4. Fuel Pump (intermediate) @ 125,000 miles ? Independent mechanic
5. 4 fuel injectors fitted ? BMW dealer
NOTE: Changing the fuel injectors solved the warm start problem; however turbo boost problem still was not resolved.
6. Air mass meter @ 125,000 miles ? Independent mechanic
7. Air mass programmed ? BMW dealer
8. Car software updated ? BMW dealer
9. Full diagnostic check carried out on diesel injection system ? by ?Diesel Injection Specialists? no fault codes present, however boost showed approx 3 specific spikes in boost @ 2000, 2500, 2900 revs. the injection specialist in consultation with BMW technicians advised the following parts be changed ?..
NOTE: Parts changed in the last 1000 ? 2000 miles
10. Turbo Pressure converter @ 130,000 miles
11. Both Vacuum hoses from turbo pressure converter to turbo
12. Vacuum Reservoir & hose that goes across engine.
13. EGR pressure converter was removed (covered in oil) and the Turbo pressure converter was used in its place (the turbo pressure converter was significantly cleaner).
14. EGR vacuum hoses changed.
15. Vacuum hose to radiator changed.
16. Crankcase breather changed.
NOTE: Car performance has improved marginally since software update, pressure converters & vacuum hose change but still at least 40-50% down on correct level of boost at the correct time in the rev cycle.
17. Car put on main dealers GT1 Computer - no fault codes showing up - they said the car was showing the "correct charge air pressure", They gave me a live printout of all the results.
QUESTION : Is there a certain level of drop in performance before a fault code will be logged????????
Any help/comments greatly appreciated - 1 turbo supplier in the UK suggested it may be the intake manifold pressure sensor - however no fault codes are showing up. Have also been on Bmwland web site (Numerous others have this problem also), but no solutions available - can anyone out there solve this problem, main dealers have no solution (this car was never chipped / altered in any way). Pretty good performance before this issue.
Regards,
Pat O'Connor
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/07/2008 at 19:24
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Hi Pat,
I have the exact same snag. I am getting it sorted soon, hopefully? I will let you know if I do!
I am tempted to change the pressure sensor at the back of the manifold to see if that sorts it.
Who knows
Sean
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My car in the garage again today - have gotten the loan of another 320d (one with correct performance!!) for the mechanic to compare performance & data etc. Fingers crossed but I dont have much hope to be honest. That intake manifold sensor costs about ?90 incl V.A.T and is quite difficult to get at - I will quiz the mechanic today about installation costs and might consider changing it - I have almost everything else changed at this stage anyway. Let me know if you change the intake sensor.
Pat
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Hi, thanks for you reply. I have been looking on the internet and it appears to lie with the MAF. A common problem by al;l accounts?? If it is changed the dealer needs to program the ecu to accept the new MAF. I will try this avenue first. The pressure sensor is secured in with a 10mm bolt. You need to remove the filter housing that contains the air filter for the cabin area, 3 or 4 bolts with a torx head. Remove the filter and you can see them. I have had it out to clean it without success, obviously. I'm sure the problem is fixable, just one of those awkward snags.
Sean
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Got my car back from my local Mechanic yesterday - Problem NOT solved, However i think we may be on the right trail to solving the matter finally. Mechanic says he is alomost 100% positive it's an electrical problem. He took live readings from my car Vs a proper performing 320d - my car's ECU seems like it's beind fed incorrect readings about boost pressures & engine speeds etc (Mechanic explained it to me, but a bit over my head to be honest).
The mechanic will be ringing the main BMW dealer today to discuss his findings so hopefully this will shed some further light on the matter. I suspect the boost control sensor on the intake manifold is faulty as, as far as i know this sensor sends the relevant info to the ECU to control turbo operation etc. However It's a bit unusual that BMW's GT1 computer couldnt pick up a possible fault with this sensor and the lack of communication issue with my ECU when they had the car?????
However Ill keep you informed - (hope your fault is a simple as an air mass meter fault - I doubt it though!!!!!)
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Hi Pat,
I guess you've had no luck yet! I've got mine booked in on friday, week today, with a fuel injection specialist. A man called Frank Massey of REVO Engineering, who is extremely good. I will hopefully have an answer by next weekend so I will let you know the outcome.
Sean
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Hi,
Just got car back. Had a full analysis done, no electrical faults, no leaks.
Boost is however 1 bar below spec at certain revs and 0.3 bar in others.
These turbos are renowned to be fail in this manner.
He said it is sticky vanes. The fix is a simple strip and clean up. A recon turbo can be bought for around £450.00, to overhaul yours £230.00 and a strip and clean £90.
I'm gonna get mine cleaned and let you know.
Type in Frank Massey and see his credentials. He is very good.
Sean
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Check this out!
www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/VNT15-T...l
Sean
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Sev,
Was away on holidays - hence the delay in responding to messages - well any luck in getting your car sorted. Did the diesel injection specialist check all electrical sensors associated with fuel injection system.
Hopefully your problem may be turbo related - mine is definately not as the complete turbo system, inatke, vacuum control etc has been tested by a the main dealer GT1 computer.
I have turned my attention towards the electrical control systems of the fuel injection system. I have been driving my car now for the past 20,000 miles at below it's proper performance capabilities - really FxxKING frustrating. The heart is gone out of this car ......................................
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Type in Frank Massey and see his credentials. He is very good.
I think he's the "Diagnostic Doctor" in Car Mechanics magazine too. The feature where they pick a model and fuel system, and cover weaknesses / common faults / diagnostic procedures.
Cheers
DP
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Just checked up that contact - looks impressive alright. I have just sent them an e-mail, hoping for a reply!! Joined their forum also, but there doesn't seem to be much on the forum really. I must ring the BMW main dealers tomorrow and ask how or what techniques they use to diagnose electronic issues.
Thanks for the contact DP
Edited by Pugugly on 11/08/2008 at 22:04
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Must make sure to review before posting in future - spelling errors !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hi,
I've not done the job yet. Been on holiday myself and going again on wednesday.
He did a complete intake system test and then completed a real time run on the car. I am down 1bar boost at low revs and 0.4bar at higher revs.
He said everything else with the electronics is operating as it should.
I don't know what the G1 machine is but i think that unless the car is taken on the road and a dynamic check is done then the computer will not pick it up. He said this to me. He went into how they work and it all made sense. He also said that the majority of dealership mechanics are taught to trust the computers they have and if it says no fault then the car is ok. Not the case.
As soon as I do my car I will let you know. I plan to do it in a couple of weeks.
Sean
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"I am down 1bar boost at low revs and 0.4bar at higher revs".
Most cars only run 1bar boost maximum anyway, so how can it be down 1bar? That means it has no boost at all, doesn't it?
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Didnt get a chance to book my car in with Autologic Agent yet. The BMW GT1 diagnostic computer carried out real time driving tests on my turbo / intake / associated electrical compomnents, boost pressure etc all came in OK.
I'M hoping this AutpLogic guy will solve the issue once and for all, it seems I was describing the fault incorrectly - car down on thrust / push between 2000 - 3000, turbo is definately not at fault.
The main problem with BMW main dealers is that you ask them to test something specific and when this is done they will not check other possible causes unless you ask them / pay them. You arrive back to collect your car and they tell you it may be another issue but you'll have to book your car in again and further cost - ANNOYING AND TIME CONSUMING - the saga continues
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If it's down 1 bar on boost and it is supposed to run at 1 bar then I assume the turbo is supplying enough air to maintain atmospheric pressure i.e. no boost yet no vacuum in the manifold??????
I have taken the head off my car and the turbo. Having taken the turbo apart to gain access to the vanes I have found that they are free to move yet there is signs of them fouling the plates adjacent to them?????
I have cleaned all the vanes and put it back together. It does move more freely however I don't know if this will fix it. I feel as though it won't.
I am still thinking it is the manifold pressure sensor. This may be coming up with a reading for the ECU however this might not be the right signal and may not flag up a fault.
When the car is running, in about 2 days hopefully, I will let you know if the car is the same or not.
Sean
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Have you checked for a split in the intercooler that opens under pressure?
Or an internally delaminated turbo hose that is blocking the flow?
Where was the oil coming from on the boost solenoid?
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I have now had the car running for a couple of weeks. There is a massive difference in performance. From 2000rpm it pulls like a train, magic.
I did notice when I took the turbo off to clean the vanes that the rotating parts i.e. compressor and turbine where not spinning freely. They could be turned by finger pressure however they stopped immediately when finger pressure was removed. I would expect these to continue to spin. I cleaned these areas without further disassembling. They span more freely however not as I would like.
Not having the parts to carryout a full strip I reassembled the unit.
As i said there is a massive improvement but I did recently suffer a complete loss in power for a minute or so.
I am going to rig a vacuum gauge to the turbo actuator line to make sure the vacuum is being achieved and the fault doesn't lie with the vac pump.
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Just got round to having a look. I've discovered that there is a lot of oil in the vacuum pump. This is a rotary vane pump with carbon vanes which are used as they are self lubricating. Why the oil?? Also as we know you can't compress liquids as you can air. This I feel is very wrong. I think the oil is getting into the pump via the air outlet hole that feeds the drawn air into the cam area of the engine. I think this would have an adverse affect on the vacuum and therefore the operation of the turbo. Can anyone shed any light on this?
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Sev,
Would you believe my cas has been in the garage since the last week of September (AutpLogic Agent). Basically every single avenue has been explored - ECU was even sent away to be properly diagnosed. Anyway after all this the Agent after consulting me advised that a load a power upgrade on to the ECU. Car drove like magic for two days and THEN the original problem seemed to be exposed - The Charge Air line from the EGR valve to the intercooler is the problem. The joint that connects to the intercooler from the charge air line has failed. the to lugs that hold the pipe in place seem to have been shearing off slowly and completely failed once the additional pressure of the power upgrade was inflicted on them. The Turbo system must hasve been loosing boost from this joint all along. Will be getting this part changed after the X-MAS holidays. unless this joint was examined very carefully one would not even consider it. I have no doubt this has been the problem all along - But i will confirm same asap.
I would advise that you check this part on your car closely. joint should seal tightly with no movement.
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Hi Pat,
Thanks for the tip. I checked this and whilst I was at it I pressure checked the whole intake system. I found a small hole in my intercooler which I plugged, but not nothing else. I also stripped the turbo down again and checked that. All seems well.
I have had a gauge fitted to the vacuum lines before and after the solenoid to the turbo actuator. I also had a voltmeter on the solenoid supply. I came to the conclusion that the turbo is doing exactly what the electronics are telling it to do.
I then changed the inlet manifold pressure sensor. The car is not fixed. I have 3 dips in power at the same revs in each gear at 2000, 2400 and 2800, and what seems a little down on power from 2800 upwards.
I can't help but think that the mapping is wrong? But why would it?
I'd like to find out what controls the turbo solenoid, what factors directly control it? I assume inlet manifold pressure is one, that's why I changed the sensor!
Oh well the saga continues.
Sev
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Sev,
Sorry to hear your problem remain unsolved. My mechanic sent away the ECU (To Germany) the technican over there reported no faults - he was checking specifically for a fault in the barometric sensor (this sensor plays a major part in the turbo control - so im told anyway!!). Please keep in mind that 3 mechanics failed to spot the worn connection points on the intercooler pipe on my car - at initial inspection they seem perfectly ok, this problem would hot have been spotted on my car were it not for the fact the pipe eventually blew off (after 40,000 miles of driving with the power loss problem). I would suggest it be worthwile you trying to source this part cheap from a scrapyard and try changing it yourself (easy enough to do - if i can manage it anyone can). The EGR to intercooler pipe should have two very distinct wedge shaped catches (about 5 mm high) at each side plus a rubber washer where it connects to the intercooler. even the slightest wear would result in a small boost leak. When i was at the main dealer a 5 series diesel was having the same part changed. The pipe cost me ?230 at the main dealers. The main dealer & mechanic also pressure checked my car but all was said to be ok at the time!!!!!!!!!!!! another sign of problems here would be evidence of oil on the under engine panel where the EGR pipe connects to the intercooler.
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Pat,
I think as mine is the earlier 136bhp model my fittings are different to yours. I have looked at them and I don't have these lugs as you describe. All the air charge hoses are kept on with jubilee clips.
I assume yours is running correctly now? If it is I'll check the intercooler again and concentrate on air leaks as the problem.
Cheers for the help
Sean
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Sean,
My mechanic origianlly sent away my ECU to get the barometric sensor in it checked (seems they can cause problems, highly unlikely though he says) the barometric sensor controls the wastegate operation i think.
Hopefully you will find a bad connection/split hose from the intercooler pipes etc. Keep in mind - Black smoke probably means faulty pipe connection from intercooler - Blue/white smoke usually means turbo failure (did on mine anyway).
Best of luck with it anyway - most annoying problem i have ever encountered.
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Evening all
Has anyone managed to get to the bottom of this issue? My E46 (136bhp) has no (or very little) boost at all and tests seem to suggest that the solenoid controlling the wastegate for the turbo is at fault. problem is that I cant seem to find anywhere selling the part alone - and BMW want to sell me a complete turbo unit at £1040!!
Cheers
K
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Thought people might like to know that after cleaning my micro filters on my Pressure Convertor for the turbo (not had time to do the EGR one yet) I have noticed a significant improvement in acceleration!
Will update once I figure out howt to get to the Pressure Convertor for the EGR and get it cleaned.
K
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I have now had the car running for a couple of weeks. There is a massive difference in performance. From 2000rpm it pulls like a train, magic. I did notice when I took the turbo off to clean the vanes that the rotating parts i.e. compressor and turbine where not spinning freely. They could be turned by finger pressure however they stopped immediately when finger pressure was removed. I would expect these to continue to spin. I cleaned these areas without further disassembling. They span more freely however not as I would like. Not having the parts to carryout a full strip I reassembled the unit. As i said there is a massive improvement but I did recently suffer a complete loss in power for a minute or so. I am going to rig a vacuum gauge to the turbo actuator line to make sure the vacuum is being achieved and the fault doesn't lie with the vac pump.
Are you saying the car was sorted. ????
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DID ANYONE GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS. ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS BUT NO REAL ANSWER BY ANYONE WHO RESOLVED IT. ???
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Hi,
for those who had tried out everything..but couldn't get it right... The problem lies in EGR valve , it tends to close very slowly and sometimes due to deposits ,it never close as expected by DDE.
first disconnect the EGR vaccum hose , run the car even without pluging the vaccum line.. if you notice car jumps in with power..then your egr close as expected . The problem is with the PCV valve filter of the EGR .
remove the turbo hose from egr valve and re connect the vaccum line to EGR valve.. observe egr operation while someone accelarating and letting it go...if its operates but close very slowly when accelarating... your PCV for EGR need cleaning...
better to clean both EGR and the PCV valve... To clean EGR properly ,you need to connect a hose to EGR valve and operate it from mouth to open it.. then clean it using Carb cleaner...
credit goes to mech Named Aruna in Sri Lanka...he sorted the mess ..clever guy...really systamatic diagnosis he did...mine fly like a hornet...
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