It's just a form of taxation - this change is comparable with the 10%, 22% and 40% tax thresholds, rather than having everyone paying the basic rate! ;-)
Besides, within your first 2 years of holding a licence, 2 3-point penalties will already lose your licence, AND force you to resit an extended test. After those 2 years, if you had a temporary driving ban you can get straight into a car afterwards and drive without a single lesson to address the faults in your driving which resulted in the ban.
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Besides within your first 2 years of holding a licence 2 3-point penalties will already lose your licence AND force you to resit an extended test. After those 2 years if you had a temporary driving ban you can get straight into a car afterwards and drive without a single lesson to address the faults in your driving which resulted in the ban.
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Not an extended test, Greg. You just have to sit the standard test, plus theory of course.
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Not an extended test Greg. You just have to sit the standard test plus theory of course.
www.learnerdrivers.org.uk/learnerdriversmenu/exste...p
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Greg,
When you get six points in the first two years you are NOT disqualified from driving, you simply revert back to provisional licence status. In my final years instructing I had a few pupils who were preparing for the test under exactly that rule, and all they had to take was the standard L test.
It was surprising the number who failed as well, which is food for thought for those who think a regular re-test would be a good idea.
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all the emphasis on speed has lots to do with anti car political correctness and not much to do with safety
i think its now clear many european countries are doing much better at cutting accidents without criminalising so many ordinary drivers
if i saw any campagins about not driving too close to the car in front
or dont be a drunk pedestrian near a busy road
i would believe they were genuine
many deaths can be attributed to the poor road design prevelant in this country, which again compares very badly with the best in the world, i dont see any designers of death trap road juntions in court no matter how many they kill
really its all out of balance
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many deaths can be attributed to the poor road design prevelant in this country which again compares very badly with the best in the world i dont see any designers of death trap road juntions in court no matter how many they kill
Compares very badly with the rest of the world?
In terms of deaths and injuries, this country has just about the lowest figures in the world as far as I understand. That is true by any manipulation of the figures; per car, per million car miles driven etc.
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OK, I concede defeat! The point I was making was still valid though - 2 speeding convictions are enough to lose a new driver their licence under the current system. Under this proposed system, a new driver caught just once going 45 in a 30 will have to retake their test. Seems a bit harsh to me. Still, keeps the DSA's pockets full!
I freely admit that the bad habits I've learnt in 4 years of driving would ensure that I couldn't pass another test without a few lessons. Simple things like crossing arms when steering, not putting it into neutral at traffic lights etc etc.
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Greg
>>surprising the number who failed as well which is food for thought forthose who think a regular re-test would be a good idea.
Doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Take your test again.. I think many people would rather go to prison...!
Also there appears to be no evidence that tougher testing is working to reduce accidients among young people. What happened to 'evidenced based' policy..?
The same applies to speeding -> # fines has shot up, # of accidents has bottomed out several years ago despite ever more fines.
When I took my test many people were failed for not using 4th gear at 30mph, regardless of the fact the car may not be designed for that. It was just a tick for the anarak examiner to put in a box.
Beware the anaraks with clipboards..:-)
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>When I took my test many people were failed for not using 4th gear at 30mph
How long ago was this, Ziggy? That said, the borrowed S40 I was driving yesterday seemed uncomfortably buzzy at 30 in third - probably the result of low gearing to squeeze some acceleration out of a weak engine in a heavy car - so I found myself using fourth in town for the first time in ages.
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As usual a mixed message coming out. Exceed the speed limit on a motorway (a road built to move from A to B with maximum efficiency - no parked cars schools or childrens playareas to negotiate) by 35% and you will be dealt with in exactly the same way as someone exceeding the 20mph limit around schools and childrens play areas by 60% ?
In principal I agree with the sliding scale but doesn't this happen already to a certain extent. If you are doing 45mph in a 30mph zone, can't you be done for driving without due care etc etc
as for motorways, I think that the percentages are not really relevant. I know where you are coming from as doing 95mph on an empty motorway in the dry is less dangerous that the 60% over the linit outside a school. It would need a sliding scale of speed on the motorways to be introduced, which really shouldn't be too hard as the matrix signs are already in place.
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What was proposed when Road Safety Act was being discussed as follows:
Low Penalty - 2 points/£40 Standard Penalty 3 points/£60 Higher Penalty 6points/£100
20 mph - No lower...................20 -31 mph.............................32 mph and upwards
30mph - up to 39mph...............40 - 44 mph ...........................45 mph -
40mph - up to 50mph...............51 - 56 mph............................57 mph -
50mph - up to 61 mph..............62 - 69 mph............................70 mph -
60mph - up to 72 mph..............73 - 81 mph............................82 mph -
70mph - up to 83 mph..............84 - 93 mph ...........................94 mph -
Consulation process will no doubt follow similar lines.
What so far has not been disclosed is whether or not there will be any change to ACPO policy on prosecution by FPN/Court. Is there going to be any change of the 10% plus 2 mph i.e. lowered? Also with the Higher Penalty will this mean less going to Court under their Guidelines.
Me thinks strange days ahead for drivers?
dvd
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maybe strange days ahead for drivers but not a great excuse saying that you didn't understand the new format as speeding is speeding. Think that it would be more realistic to have a higher m'way speed (say 80) and use a bit more common sense (as opposed to cameras)
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Any other crime that allows you a 10% freeby before you are convicted? Can I nick 10% of stock before I get charged, I think not.
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The legal limit for stealing stock is zero, Geoff. So you can work out your 10 per cent tolerance from that!
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Unmarked but identifiable traffic police cars should cruise the motorways in largish numbers pulling motorists, scolding them for their driving (rather than for speeding) and if necessary, supplying them with texts or addresses for tuition.
Seems to me that is the only way driving can be improved. Trouble is, 'improved driving standards' is a risky objective from a politician's point of view. Repression, inhibition and money-grubbing penalty systems on the other hand can be presented to a gullible, infantilised public as moves along the right lines, with proveable results.
So we've had it.
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Unmarked but identifiable traffic police cars
How does that work then lud? Big sign saying "NOT POLICE"?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Perhaps they'll have a distinctive smell.
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Same make. Same colour. Blues behind grille. Discreetly uniformed officers (no gold epaulettes, spurs, swords or jackboots).
They shouldn't be obvious to the carp motorway driver in a daze if he looks in his mirror, but he shouldn't be able to mistake them for highway robbers and try to flee when they pass and flag him down..
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If I remember rightly, and no doubt someone will correct me if necessary, that driving licence, insurance and MOT are compulsory, whereas speeding is an optional extra that many of us do not want nor need.
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thought we already had unmarked identifiable police cars?
simply look for the clean saloon without metalic paint, steel wheels with all four hubcaps and most importantly no supplying garage sticker in the back window or anywhere else.
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Well of course. But are there a lot of them on motorways giving bad drivers a flea in their ear, or are they parked in red light districts eating pies?
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Not so easy to spot on the stretch of the M1 I frequent. The ones I know of have metallic paint and alloys, they no longer have extra aerials on the roof as a giveaway. The latest one I saw was a new Saab 9-5 with very discreet blue LED's on the rear parcel shelf which obviously look grey when not illuminated, small and difficult to spot.
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I've also seen a Saab 9-5 on the M1 in Derbyshire. What drew my attention to it were the black reversing sensors on the silver bumper which looked terrible.
Our local force use a Vectra Estate in white - saw it twice yesterday.
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A lot of metalic blue new shape passats have turned up in london and around, really no way of knowing till the blue lights shine out from behind the grille
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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My company car is a white Vectra Estate with steel wheels minus hubcaps since some pink fluffy dice removed them a few months back. I can't be bothered to replace them.
When driving on the motorway at a steady seventy on the inside lane I have noticed people do tend to slow down and have a good look just to make sure before overtaking.
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I think this is an excellent idea. Doing 95 on a motorway = an indicated 100. You deserve to have the book thrown at you.
I do not like even remotely the idea of fine but no points for low-level crimes. That effectively means that wealthy people can drive up to 40mph in 30 zones without any problem. Where is the sense or fairness in that?
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Doing 95 on a motorway = an indicated 100. You deserve to have the book thrown at you.
I have many times driven lengths of motorway, including a southbound M6 on a Sunday night, where the rapid quartile of the traffic was touching an indicated hundred from time to time, perfectly safely it seemed to me... I am sure I am not alone here.
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judging by my experience of the M6 last Saturday 90 - 100 seemed to be mandatory for cars. And you know what else? Between half-way down Cornwall to just south of Carlisle I didn't see a single marked Police car and the one I did see then was heading south and then I didn't see another until Fife. Saw a few Traffic Officer cars between Exeter and the Midlands though, mostly on the hard shoulder with their lights on but no-one else around.
ps anyone know why the M6 was shut between J22 & 23 on saturday?
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"I think this is an excellent idea. Doing 95 on a motorway = an indicated 100. You deserve to have the book thrown at you."
Oh, absolutely. 95 should be a hanging offence. And your thoughts on defective brakes, now? - no worries?
You dont by any chance wear size 18 shoes and a revolving bow-tie, do you? ;-)
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>>"I think this is an excellent idea. Doing 95 on a motorway = an indicated 100. You deserve to have the book thrown at you."
95 on a motorway? If it's in a well maintained car in the right conditions it's perfectly safe. The law is an ass regarding speed limits. When the 70 limit was first brought in many family cars couldn't do much more than that and with relatively poor brakes and tyres compared to today.
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They've just got hold of a Ford Focus ST in silver in the Eastbourne area.
Chris
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I'm sure that you can drive perfectly safely on an empty motorway at 95mph. The only problem is everybody else.
A goodly number of people pootle along at an indicated 70 - which is probably 65 mph. They think they are going at the speed limit. AT 95 you are going 50% more quickly than they are. They're not expecting you. They check their mirror, prepare to change lanes, change lanes and suddenly a car travelling 50% more quicly than they are has crashed into them.
It is the speed differential that is the problem, and the unexpected nature of your appearance at 95mph. If you want to drive at those sorts of speeds on public roads, and object to the UK 70mph limit, then please make Britain a safer place and move to Germany. Or campaign for the limit to be increased to 95mph.
There is possibly no more terrifying motorway experience than pulling out on an unrestricted autobahn into an empty lane.... and having a car appear travelling twice as quickly as you are behind you, headlights blazing.
Drive sensibly, don't surprise other drivers by doing the unexpected, and live longer. (And don't get your blood pressure up.)
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Not a good arguement mappy
Hat on head man is doing 65mph, Rudeboy is doing 95. The speed differential may be 50% (ish) more, but at the end of the day its only 30mph. Not a significant speed to be suprised by.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Of course - I forgot. 30mph is significant to you because your ABS is not working. No wonder you worry about speed.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Not only is Mapmaker's ABS not working, his traction control is not either...
madf
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Not only is Mapmaker's ABS not working his traction control is not either... madf
Or his moral compass!
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indeed - how do lorry drivers survive who are restricted to 56?
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My ABS works perfectly well, thank you. Or at least, I presume it does as the light goes off as it should. I don't suppose it has ever been activated since March 1999 when it came out of the factory.
I happen to disagree, TVM, 30mph is plenty. Try doing 35 mph on the inside lane, and pull out in front of somebody doing 65mph.
The country is full of abysmal drivers who might as well drive with their eyes shut. Do you really want them doing 95 - or being surprised by somebody else doing 95?
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Mapmaker, you might want to get your headlights looked at too if they are blazing away on dip. The unwritten rule on the autobahn is dips on at 200kph and above. That way people know you are coming at speed.
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Mapmaker,
In the scenario you've highlighted, it's the twit not looking in his mirrors that needs to sort his life out.......the more nanny state we become, the less drivers think about what they're doing and they need to, driving can be dangerous.......and falling into a false sense of security by ever decreasing speed limits is not helping matters
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Sorry westpig he is spot on. I have experienced what he describes - me doing 70-80 on a quiet motorway. Prepare to overtake, do mirror check, do shoulder check, prepare to move out and the car doing 100+ is there. Motorways have bends and crests of hills too (especially the M62 which I tend to use most when it's quiet), so seeing a long way back is not always possible.
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Surely you'd be monitoring your mirrors as you drive along and make several observations before planning an overtake ?
You don't just look once and pull out. You should be checking every eight to ten seconds regardless of whether the motorway is busy or not.
That car travelling at 100+ could be an emergency vehicle.
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