Hi All.
With the current '00 1.8 petrol Vectra just short of 100k, I am planning my shortlist for a replacement - which finances depending - should occur around 2008ish and 130k on the clock. One of the cars on my future shortlist will probably be another Vectra (2.2 SRi diesel) but I have become rather intrigued by the 607 (the twin turbo 2.2 Hdi).
As I will be buying a used car, it seems to be a lot of car for relatively little money, giving its depreciation during the first 12 - 18 months. From the research I've done thus far, it seems like a great cruiser (fine with me given a 85 mile round commute per day), slighly odd looking (doesn't bother me), not suited for chucking it around country corners (fine with me) and a huge boot (fine for the children's stuff).
As I own cars until they fall apart (perhaps not litterally), any further depreciation is not likely to be an issue.
So the question is, is it a sensible choice for the shortlist given my high (private) miles, need for a comfy motorway cruiser and a big boot to cater for family life? At the moment I am tempted but wondered if the 2.2 SRi would be a safer choice? Mondeos don't do it for me and the recent stories here of the TDCi engine troubles and only being 130bhp don't tempt me. If I can get over my badge snobbery, the Superb/Octavia would also be a consideration.
Thanks.
TT.
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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I think Broadmoor is calling you....
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Buy with a warranty, be prepared to throw the thing away when the warranty period expires. Minimal residual = disposable.
">Mondeos don't do it for me and the recent stories here of the TDCi engine troubles and only being 130bhp don't tempt me.<2
Oh good, that should knock TDCi prices a bit more, I'm even closer to buying one now. And I bet Cheddy can't keep away from this thread. He'll no doubt tell you about the cost of replacing the fuel pump at 100k vs TDCi mpg ... again ;-)
Espada's flippant reply is a disgrace...
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Espada's flippant reply is a disgrace...
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How Micky can have the temerity to critisise anyone for being flippant is beyond me!
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>> >> Espada's flippant reply is a disgrace... >> How Micky can have the temerity to critisise anyone for being flippant is beyond me!
Sorry the ;-) was missing.
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Since depreciation and handling are not concerns, then I would say, yes as these are the two main reasons most wouldnt buy one. Just make sure you get it cheap and check out all the roadtests and reliability info to make sure you know the 607 inside out.
To answer your question directly, yes its a sensible choice, but there are many other options, so do some detailed reserch to make sure you havent missed something else.
Im sure you can get a list from this lot if you give a budget and specific requirements.
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>>only being 130bhp don't tempt me.
The 130hp mondeo is only the 2.0, the 2.2 equivalent is about 155bhp although I think that is still a bit below the Peugeot.
I think the 607 is a really nice looking car inside and out. I've only sat in one while waiting around for parts though. Not sure why but I found I kept hitting my head on the roof when getting in. One of things I found appealing is it still retains a normal sized dashboard, not the metre deep slab of horrid plastic many cars have these days
As for reliability, the twin turbo set-up is new, so there hasn't been time for expensive failures to come to light. By the time you come to buy that may have changed.
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I also like the 607 - individual looking with a nice soft French ride. However, servicing and potential future repair costs are likely to be more than the Vectra so for that reason alone I'd plump for the Vectra.
The 2.2 diesel in the Vectra C is the old GM unit - chain driven though not very refined, or economical - also used in the SAAB 9-3 and 9-5. If you're looking to change in 2008 you may find a newer (Fiat sourced) 1.9 CDTi within your budget. Modern diesel engine that comes as either 120 or 150 BHP and seems to be a good unit from what I've read.
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Oh, and only buy the Vectra SRi if you like a stiff, sometimes crashy, ride. It has lowered, stiffer suspension.
If you're also looking at the 607 I'm guessing you're into comfort therefore the Vectra would be much better for you in Elegance/Design or Elite spec with softer springs.
Signums also offer great value but they're only a four seater in reality.
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The 607 has such a small market penetration in the UK, this might not be a wise move. Getting it fixed at any time could turn out to be a nightmare. I share your feelings about the Mondeo diesels - I'm afraid Delphi fuel systems are, for my money, too much of a lottery.
I'd put my money on the Skoda; either an Octavia or, for better value still, a Superb. Make sure you get the Cat III 130 PS diesel and not the Cat IV 140 PS unit which gives trouble with particulate filters, especially on the NS engine installations. The 130 PS VAG PD diesel has a Bosch fuel system with no electric lift pump. Keep it fed with the correct spec oil, change the cambelt as specified and replace the odd MAF and it will go for ever. There is loads of VAG know-how around now, in the hands of more reasonably minded independents.
659.
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If you are happy with Vauxhall/GM, what about a Signum?
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Just remember you lot that I owned a Pug 605 and spent a lot of money repairing it. It was a great car to drive, but not to own.
Keep well away.
I stand by my Broadmoor comment!
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I took a decent length ride from Nykoping airport in Sweden in a 607 taxi with the engine you desire. Nice and comfy in the back, I asked the driver what he thought of it. Turned out he was also the owner, and he loved it. By then at a monster mileage with little having gone wrong from new, the sharp lines setting him apart from the hordes of S80 and V70 D5 cabs that ply the roads.
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I should add; it wouldn't be the car for me as I dislike the sound of four cylinder motors in any car but it was mighty comfy as a passenger and there are some 607s out there that are reliable it seems!
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The 605 was last being sold 8-9 years ago - what has the 607 got to do with the 605?
About as much as the Merc 190 has to do with the latest C-Class. Very poor logic comparing an old banger like the 605 to the latest 607. Just because its a big Peugeot, thats a poor comparison.
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The 2.2 twin turbo PSA / Ford engine should be cracking, soon to be installed in various Fords as well, new Mondeo, S-Max and Galaxy I guess, though currently it is down on torque compared to the 2.2 Mondeo / X-Type (370nm v 400nm) despite it's extra turbo, also it is belt cam, not chain. Re the 2.0 Mondeo "only being 130bhp", they are claimed to be 130PS / 128 bhp though this is by all accounts conservative, the tuning companies such as Superchips quote standard Mondeo and X-Types as around 148bhp however torque is the key criteria on a TD and the 2.0 130 produces 25% more torque than a 2.2 DTi.
Re the 607, I did 500 miles or so in a 2.2 petrol one about three years ago and I remember it as being completely boring, anticeptic, totally lacking in character ZZZZZzzzzzzz.
The 407 is ugly though is many times better than the 607.
Oh and just to humour Micky, yes my TDCi is on 112k and going strong, I know of one on 170k likewise.
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A 6-cylinder diesel would be idea; for your longish commute - much more refined than a four and on a long journey not much less economical (and certainly more so than your current petrol Vextra).
The Signum 3.0 V6 would be a possibility - my choice would be the Skoda Superb 2.5 TDI - also a V6 and both punchy and refined. The old VW Passat also came with this engine and is worth a look. None of these is very common so you may have to go with what you can find within your budget.
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The 607 is the 605 with new clothes - thats all. I know a few people with them and they've all had nightmares with them.
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607 only sells in France as it is made to transport French Politicians etc around.
I had a 605 as a company car many years ago and that was enough to cure me of large Peugeots for life - it was not the most reliable and it did not do anything else either.
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"The 605 was last being sold 8-9 years ago - what has the 607 got to do with the 605?"
607 is 605 in a party frock.
I still don't get why they bother with an RHD version - surely it can't just be for the French embassy staff in London and Cyprus?
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I had a 607 for a month while Peugeot attempted (and failed) to fix the HPi engine in my 406.
I always found myself looking at people in 607's and wondering why on earth they would drive such a car. The wierd thing is that when I had one, everyone seemed to be looking at me!
The one I had was a 2.2 diesel auto. I think it was an Exec model - it's certainly the only car I've ever driven with electrrically adjustable headrests!
It was fine as a motorway wafter - doing about 2000 RPM at 70MPG. I would say though, that it's not a cheap way of getting 'quality' in the way you would hope for if you drove a BMW 5 Series or a Merc E Class. The car just seemed like a 406 but with the corners pulled out to make it bigger. It still had the same wind & road noise and rattles that the 406 had - nothing terribly bad, just not the luxury that you might expect from a large car.
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I would treat big Pugs as big Citroens, fords, Vauxhalls or anything made by a volume car maker.:-
High depreciation
so so quality
but when 3 years old cheap for its size.
Would I want one if I wanted a big car?
Nope.. I can't think of any reason to buy one except it will be cheap. And if it ain't cheap...
madf
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605's were spacious, used to have a couple of colleagues that had 605's as co cars, we used to say that if the meeting rooms were taken we could us a 605 instead!
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Oops sorry - that's 2000 RPM at 70MPH.
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I mini cabbed a 605 diesel auto up to 225000 about 8 years ago, lovely car with no problems.
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Drove a 605 on a two week Spanish trip a few years ago, nice car, nice ride - very solid.
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Thanks all for the comments so far. I think it will still be on the provisional list for now, but the more negative things I hear, the more it is likely to get bumped off when the times come to stump up the cash!
Cheers.
TT
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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TopTurkey
No one else has asked this question...but why are you worrying about changing your car in 2008 right now? That is a long time to torment yourself. A number of things could happen in that time:
Gordon Brown could tax us £10 per thought of even buying a car, then £1 per metre to drive it once bought.
A meteorite could hit the eath and kill us all (except Gordon Brown)
You could win the roll over jackpot, have enough to buy 30 cars AND afford the £1 per metre congestion charge.
The Tories could win the next election and goodness knows what will happen if Dave gets into power.
PS I thought Turkey's only got one Christmas?
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"No one else has asked this question...but why are you worrying about changing your car in 2008 right now? That is a long time to torment yourself."
It's not that I am worried about in a negative sense. As I plan to buy nearly new, my future car will be new car as of today - so if I can do some research now, I'll be fully briefed when the time comes. It's not a chore for me (although it is for the good Mrs TT) as I do like anything car related. Sadly, I also have some inheritance coming through next year, so if bills start piling up on the Veccy, I may have to buy a replacement sooner.
Cheers.
TT
PS In addition to fast hands, I have fast legs. I thus continue to escape being caught...
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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Turkey, there might even be a C6 diesel in your price range in a couple of years time.
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Just cliked on Auctionview link, there are only 10 for sale accross the BCA sites, one being a 52 plate V6 petrol, covered 91,000miles!!
Wouldn't have minded to have done that distance - as long as someone else were to foot the fuel bill!!
Anyway, think you'll be spending a fair bit of time looking for the 'right' one, but the Pug ex fleet direct sales are open to the public, so a vehicle from them, SHOULD have started it's like being reasonably well maintaned!!
VB
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What's not to like? Why do the French survive using their home-made large cars (almost exclusively - I don't see many Mercs/BMWs outside Paris)? We are such stupid car snobs that we cannot see straight.
As long as depreciation is not due to anticipated shelf life (which it is, say, on Alfas) , the higher it is the better - for all but the 1st owner.
Big and French means fabulous comfort, reliable engines, cheapish parts, loads of extras for the money and it certainly looks better than the 'Jaws' appearance of the 406s. Peugeot have a pretty good reputation for a mainstream manufacturer - it and Renault put us Brits to shame. Even when we subsidised our firms to the hilt, they still produced rubbish. The Vel Satis, Avantime, Espace, 205, C6, Picasso - all worthy of purchase for those for whom they do the job required.
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