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Jaguar appear to be heading in the right direction however what has happened to Nissan since Renault took over?
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Jaguar appear to be heading in the right direction
in my Jag magazine there was a small article that said Jaguar had topped a US satisfaction survey (again), having achieved this year, the highest marks any manufacturer has ever achieved and some way from the nearest opposition.
(If anyone replies to this and is interested 'i'll look it up when i get home and include more details).
The German readers of Auto Bild magazine were fairly impressed too, IIRC
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Jaguar appear to be heading in the right direction however what has happened to Nissan since Renault took over?
Need you ask. As the owner of a Renault-contaminated Nissan, I can assure all concerned that once I get my car back - again - from the dealer, my hard earned will not be spent with them. This is my 8th and last one for sure - quite apart from the fact I harbour no desire for the vans with windows they are now churning out, the build and general reliability has gone down the Khazi. For the record, this time my car decided to pay its own small scale tribute to the Buncefield depot and awaits a replacement engine for its efforts (2 years, 36k miles)
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The amusement would soon wear off after you were taking the car back every week for niggling problems.The german populas is very quickly loosing faith in it its flagship product.
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It's not measuring reliability though. That's why SAAB come out relatively well.
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Oh but it is the questionaire issued by the ADAC to all its members included trips to the agents for warranty work and information on waranty claims from the manufacturers plus their own roadside repair vehicles.
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It would appear that the VAG knockers on this forum are better informed than the VAG supporters:-)
madf
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Her is the middle class report you will see the MB c class has improved in reliability, the first number is year 2000 and is faults per 1K autos
Pannenstatistik 2005
Mittelklasse
Der Rang ergibt sich aus dem Durchschnitt der Platzierungen der Zulassungsjahre 2000-2005
Pannen pro 1000 Fahrzeuge der Baujahre
Platz
Mittelklasse
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005
1
Mercedes C
25,8
13,4
8,7
5,4
2,5
2,6
2
BMW 3er
21,7
13,7
11,7
7,9
3,4
2,0
3
Audi A4/S4
25,9
14,4
9,2
4,9
3,5
3,4
4
Mazda 6
9,1
6,4
5,4
6,4
5
VW Passat
21,2
15,0
12,1
7,9
5,8
4,2
6 Toyota Avensis/Avensis Verso
17,2
15,7
11,9
7,7
8,7
5,9
7
Skoda Octavia
25,1
16,3
15,1
9,5
6,3
6,8
8
Ford Mondeo
23,7
17,1
20,9
15,4
10,3
8,8
9
Nissan Primera
20,0
23,4
21,1
20,8
16,5
10
Opel Vectra
36,4
30,7
25,1
15,4
8,7
6,6
11
Volvo S40/V40/V50
26,2
19,1
17,6
15,8
12,4
10,7
12
Renault Laguna
39,9
52,0
50,4
27,4
11,0
5,7
Klick aufs Modell: Spezifische Mängelschwerpunkte
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But what if one isn't middle class?
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I just put the middle class all other classes are available.
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The Laguna looks a bit scary! Mazda6 looks very good.
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Laguna - backs up what I've been saying on here before, the early ones let the side down but the later ones were far better. Look how the figures decline 2003 onwards.
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? the above statistics.
Is it generated by measuring faults in the first year after registration of the car.?
Or the Total faults recorded over the period a car is on the road?
if the latter a 1 year old car will ALWAYS have fewer faults...by definition...
madf
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I think it must be the former - one or two vehicles seem to have fewer faults for earlier years.
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I'd like to see the results from 55,000 British drivers. They may not be the same as those from the German drivers.
--
L\'escargot.
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I think it must be the former - one or two vehicles seem to have fewer faults for earlier years.
My reading of the figures is that it's the number of faults produced by a model produced in a given year, over the year of the survey. So, of 1000 Lagunas produced in 2001, there were 52 faults reported in the 2006 year, whereas of the 2004 Lagunas only 11 faults per 1000 cars were reported.
It would seem that the Lagunas have improved, the problem is how will the 2004-2005 say Lagunas be doing in 3 or 4 years time?
What this is saying is that 2001 Lagunas should be avoided like the plague (and indeed they're much worse than the 2000 cars, which are much better despite being a year older), whereas something like the Mazda 6 remains impressively reliable long-term.
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And incidentally Pannen means breakdown, so these are actual breakdown stats.
Scary stuff -- a full 5% of 2001 Lagunas broke down in the last year. That ain't good. 2% is too high.
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"My reading of the figures is that it's the number of faults produced by a model produced in a given year, over the year of the survey. So, of 1000 Lagunas produced in 2001, there were 52 faults reported in the 2006 year, whereas of the 2004 Lagunas only 11 faults per 1000 cars were reported."
Well if that is correct, I would expect older cars to be less reliable. So for anyone to use those tables to say for example a 2006 rubbish car is more reliable than a 2000 rubbish car is just plain wrong. If you compared a 2001 Laguna to a 2001 Subaru then that is correct but comparing one year to another is imo like comparing dogs and hippos...
madf
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Point is though that you compare 2001 cars with other 2001 cars, and 2005 ones with other 2005s etc etc.
I've located a good table summarising the results for all the cars in the survey.
www.weltzeituhr.com/reise/adac-pannenstatist2.shtml
It has to be said that this survey reflects the general thoughts expressed by a lot of people. The Renaults had a terrible patch across the board in the early 2000s but they seem to have fixed this now and their cars now seem to be quite respectable. One would attribute this to a delayed Nissan effect, except that Nissan is having problems of its own and don't seem to have ironed them out at this stage. They've become a mediocre brand which is dissapointing for a company which used to be so strong.
Looking at these figures I'm really not sure where they get the VW=bad bit from -- although these are breakdowns, so the faults people are complaining about are probably multiple niggles or something.
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Looking at the figures on the survey jace1 posted how have they got vw down the bottom of the pile.
If it was on customer satisfaction you could understand them being near the bottom but a few mention reliability and breakdowns and looking at the list there nearer the top.
Must be me reading it wrong.
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"Pannen" means faults. It's not really clear from this survey if it just means breakdowns or also includes other faults.
Mercedes C Class seems to do well.
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"Pannen" means faults. It's not really clear from this survey if it just means breakdowns or also includes other faults. Mercedes C Class seems to do well.
Oh. I bow to your superior knowledge.
Just that the word "Panne" in my German->English dictionary specifically states "breakdown" as the translation. "Pannen" of course is the plural.
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I'm not really surprised by the make in the number one spot!
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Sorry to sound like a know it all but Pannen are breakdowns. I am fluent in German so would like to think I can follow all these German websites.
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And 'en panne' is French for broken down. An interesting example of a crossover between the two languages which have different roots.
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I don't know how it's defined within the survey but I would differentiate between breakdown in English, which is something that would leave you stranded by the side of the road, and Panne, which I would probably translate as [component] failure.
That might well equate to a breakdown and would require work to be done, rather than simply a rattle or having an exhaust changed in line with schedule, but would not necessarily require a breakdown and recovery. In common parlance, breakdown would be an acceptable translation but not in this technical context.
My Wahrig defines Panne as "Schaden; Betriebsstoerung (bes. an Fahrzeugen)... Stoerung im Arbeitslauf, Fehler, Missgeschick."
If anyone disagrees (especially those currently living in Germany or native speakers) I will be happy to bow to them of course.
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I have to say, the outcome of that survey is very, very strange. Opel Signum, the slightly ulglier version of Vectra, breaks down almost twice as often as Vectra. Most bulletproof Nissans - old Almera and Primera as well as Toyota Corolla are topped by reliability of Citroen Saxo and they apparently break at least twice more often than Ford Ka. Audi A6, with, apparently 5 year lifespan before it falls into pieces, is only as reliable as notorious Peugeot 206 and Merc A-Class. Maybe Germans get their cars from different sources than we do, in UK?
--------------------
[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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Sorry to sound like a know it all but Pannen are breakdowns.
Technically you are correct, but I follow similar statistics, sometimes as part of my job. "Panne" can (and frequently does) refer to component failures which affect the performance but may or may not cause the vehicle to actually grind to a halt (e.g. brakes).
However on second reading I discovered the sentence "In die Ergebnisstabelle fliessen ausschliesslich technisch bedingte Pannen ein, die zum Liegenbleiben fuehren." Which means that they did only include in the results tables, technical defects which actually caused the vehicle to come to a halt. This makes some of the results all the more shocking.
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Been using a new daihatsu sirion which my neighbour picked up for £6499 (1.0 s). very impressive car for that kind of money.
i can see why daihatsu are highly regarded.
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Just out of interest are daihatsu part of or part owned by Toyota ?
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Interesting that SMMT UK registration figures to date in 2006 show the following (market overall down 3.15%) - so much for surveys
1 Subaru -20.43%
2 Toyota - 3.97%
3 Honda - 1.88%
4 Daihatsu -6.23%
5 Mazda 8.18% plus
6 Porsche -8.88%
7 Mitsubishi -20.92%
8 BMW 2.69% plus
9 Jaguar -11.58%
10 Volvo -19.80%
Volkswagen 5.54% plus
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As a member of ADAC, I have just checked that these "Pannen" are indeed more than niggles...the list ranges from "broken cambelt" to "electrics scoffed by pine-marten."
NB the quoted statistics start in 2000 and end in 2005, as far as I can see...and "Mittelklasse" (lit. "middle class") of cars is not "posh people, like Mercedes drivers" but rather "Mondeo-sized cars"...
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Jaguar appear to be heading in the right direction however what has happened to Nissan since Renault took over?
Need you ask. As the owner of a Renault-contaminated Nissan, I can assure all concerned that once I get my car back - again - from the dealer, my hard earned will not be spent with them. This is my 8th and last one for sure - quite apart from the fact I harbour no desire for the vans with windows they are now churning out, the build and general reliability has gone down the Khazi. For the record, this time my car decided to pay its own small scale tribute to the Buncefield depot and awaits a replacement engine for its efforts (2 years, 36k miles)
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