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TVM - it would indeed not be unreasonable for you to park on my drive while you went shopping, provided you paid me a reasonable charge for so doing.
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There is no obligation on B&Q to charge you a "reasonable amount"
They are not operating a pay and display car park. I have no problem with them charging a nice high penalty fee.
I am curious though how in these days of data protection etc they were able to get details of your address from your reg no. I thought only the police could do that.
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>>I am curious though how in these days of data protection etc they were able to get details of your address from your reg no. I thought only the police could do that.>>
Providing it is for a reasonable purpose it is possible to acquire such details from the DVLA for the modest sum of around £2.50.
There have been campaigns by the Daily Mail for example to try and stop this practice being so readily available.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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TVM - it would indeed not be unreasonable for you to park on my drive while you went shopping, provided you paid me a reasonable charge for so doing.
But B&Q charged you nothing for your parking. What they tried to do was to fine you for breaching the terms and conditions of them allowing you to use 'their driveway'.
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This is the nub of the problem. I was served with a "Parking CHARGE Notice". Legally, they cannot "fine" me. A court of law can impose a fine and/or damages, not a private individual or firm. I suppose an action for trespass would be a possibility - but how seriously would a court take this?
Some of what I perceive as unfairness here could be avoided if the notice in the car park had actually said something along the lines of "Exceeding the free two hours' parking time will incur a charge of £125 per hour", but I bet an organisation like B & Q would not want something displayed that seems so unreasonable.
By the way, there are stories of people being charged by this parking management company £125 for being only two minutes over their allotted time. Does that seem reasonable?
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You didnt park there for two hours and two minutes tho. You over parked by nearly an hour.
B&Q cant fine you for your inconsiderate parking, so they impose a hefty parking charge. Its a pity they couldnt make it stick.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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This cost my local B&Q a £2,600 kitchen order (fine was £60). I threatened to cancel the order I'd placed that morning, they called my bluff, I went ahead and cancelled it after stopping the deposit cheque. No hard feelings - if £60 to their "parking agent" is more valuable to them than the £3k+ worth of business I took elsewhere (extra materials, tools etc came to another £500), they're obviously succeeding nicely in this presently tough retail climate. Good luck to them.
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Ive just looked and they are doing very nicely thank you ,but will pass on your kind message dp at the next shareholders bash
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Nice to see TVM really getting his teeth into this one, eh? ;-)
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Yep, nice relaxed Friday afternoon banter. Lovely.
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I love grappling with "outraged of tunbridge" ;)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I have to say that my gut instinct is four letter word B & Q, but that is (so I am told) because I am immature and ant-authoritarian. If you didn't have to pay in every car park in the land, and through the nose as well, then people wouldn't try and park on other car parks. (It used to be free. What did they do with the extra money? The same question can be asked of a lot of things I suppose).
I am not condoning "naughty parking" just saying it's hard to feel sorry for the shareholders of B & Q, particularly when they pay their staff a pittance for the most part.
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Lets get to the root of this.
Local councils now object to large superstores during planning, and always cut down the parking spaces as some kind of tick in the box to the green lobby. Most councils are now "anti car"
B&Q in turn have to maximise floor space to selling and good value ot consumers. You dont make money per sq foot of car park.
Therefore, these days, car parking is tight. And expensive. Its not therefore unreasonable that B&Q wishes to make sure that the car parking resource is used for customer of B&Q and not the customers consuming galactico mocha in starcrutch.
The root cause then is councils trying to prove they have green credentails (however false) and consumers who demand the cheapest prices.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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>>The root cause then is councils trying to prove they have green credentails (however false) and consumers who demand the cheapest prices. >>
Our local B and Q is right opposite the local council's public tip and recycling centre..:-)
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I am not condoning "naughty parking"
I have always condoned naughty parking, and greatly admire the sideways-on-a-corner-and-pedestrian-crossing style that used to be the norm in Paris before that fine round burg got an anti-car mayor to copy us.
One has to question whether B&Q get any of the parking'charges'. More likely they reached agreement with the parking villains to discourage overstaying in the manner described. The money goes to the villains and not even TVM could claim to sympathise with them, surely? .
Come on TVM, let's grapple.
- Faintly Amused of Kensington
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Actually, I thought I handled this one very well - calmly and objectively. How smug is that?
On a more serious note, you ought to read what this parking company has got up to in the past - and still does, for all I know. Unclear or obscure signs moved, extra signs put up after the alleged offence, failure to observe guidelines, attempts to secure payments when no offence has been committed, and the nasty story of the OAP who drove into B & Q in the morning, bought something, then took it back later in the day to exchange it and - guess what? - was charged for the period of time between his FIRST arrival at the car park and his SECOND departure - several hours (minus two, presumably).
TVM may think I should have been made to pay. I'm not paying to these guys. I have no argument with B & Q. It's just a pity they have gone down the route they have.
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and the nasty story of the OAP who drove into B & Q in the morning, bought something, then took it back later in the day to exchange it and
Presumably both the OAP and the store have a record of purchase and exchange - that would be enough to get him off the hook surely?
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Ive just looked and they are doing very nicely thank you ,but will pass on your kind message dp at the next shareholders bash
Jolly decent of you, thank you ;-)
DP
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Chris, you tried to be clever and were caught out. Cough up!
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IanS
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Not a fair comment! Yes, I knew only two hours were allowed free. I lost track of the time - I can't even confirm the alleged times of my arrival and departure - they could well be correct. Had other things on my mind. Returned to the vehicle, assuming I was OK, drove off. Thought no more of it.
I was surprised to receive the PCN, to say the least.
I'm not trying to be clever. I'm prepared to pay B & Q, say, £5 for my careless infringement of their parking rules. I'm not prepared to pay the parking management firm (I really have to make a big effort not to put who they are) a.k.a. Scum of the Earth £125.
Someone's making big money out of this. B & Q? I don't think so.
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They cannot fine you, they can try to levy a penalty for breach of contract, but they would have to prove that you broke the contract (which they can't practicably), and that your breach cost them £125, which it clearly didn't.
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Mention is made of private land...I read an article somewhere in the last week or two where Councils are planning to make parking charges on out of town shopping centres to get people back into town shopping. Reading that I presumed that they must actually own the land where these large stores are.
In my local town there is a smallish out of town which incorporates Tesco, Focus, Asda and two or three more.
The car park is not specifically laid out to signify whose section of the car park you are parked.
Personally if I was in a position as Chris described I would ignore any demand through the post and lets see where they go from there.
Nobody keeps receipts for small purchases so a defence if it went to court that you had returned in that time space day would I believe win the day. You dont get a parking ticket when you go in so they would have to presumably produce evidence that you had been there over the time limit constantly over this period.
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>> Nobody keeps receipts for small purchases so a defence if it went to court that you had returned in that time space day would I believe win the day. You dont get a parking ticket when you go in so they would have to presumably produce evidence that you had been there over the time limit constantly over this period.
But he has already said that he was there for the full 2 hours 50 minutes.
Are you saying he should tell lies?
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What I said was that they would have to produce evidence to prove he had been there over two hours constantly.
So yes I would tell a lie and say I wasnt unless they had provided proof to the contrary.
Havent we all told a lie at one time or another ?. And if it denied these money grabbing thieves I would have no regrets.
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Ive just looked and they are doing very nicely thank you ,but will pass on your kind message dp at the next shareholders bash
I don't know where you looked but B&Q is having a torrid time. They're closing some stores and downsizing others.
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I remember years ago in Rouen trying to get a coach round a corner where some idiot had parked right on the point of a corner.No problem,the passengers got off,lifted the car and found it fitted perfectly between two concrete bollards,with about 1/2" to spare at each end.
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There are tougher times ahead. DIY stores are one of the first indicators.
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Rose tinted glasses young bill ;-)
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