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If the backs were balanced,then no.you haven't got the pressures wrong have you;I've had some peculiar tyres in the past but never experienced a total lack of grip-why not contact the manufacturer?
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Two observations: the new tyres should have been fitted to the rear in the first place and perhaps they need some wear before becoming fully effective. I know that some disagree with fitting new (or the best pair of ) tyres to the rear, but all the tyre companies recommend it, as do the likes of Micheldever Tyre Services, no matter whether it's front- or rear-wheel drive. And, yes, check the pressures.
The chances of the tyres being intrinsically faulty are extremely small, I would think, but I suppose it it possible.
Which car?
From
www.michelin.co.uk/uk/auto/auto_cons_bib_pqr_neuf....p
Michelin say:
"Whether you have front or rear wheel drive, we recommend that you use newer tyres for the rear set, for extra safety in unforeseen or difficult situations (emergency braking, tight bends etc) particularly on wet surfaces.
Numerous tests have shown that it is easier to control the front wheels than those at the rear.
Front tyres generally wear quicker than those fitted at the rear, particularly on front wheel drive cars, which are currently in the majority.
New tyres fitted in front :
- The behavior of the car will change, because the front / rear balance will be reversed. The driver, used to a car with less grip at the front, will therefore be taken unawares.
- On a slippery road, the rear will lose traction before the front of the vehicle.
The driver will have no chance of controlling the rear, and will be tempted to accelerate further, which will amplify the spin effect. Only an experienced driver will be able to recover from this dangerous situation...
New tyres fitted at the back :
- The handling of the vehicle will be similar to that known by the driver before the tyre change, because the traction balance will be the same.
- Rear traction will be better, and the driver will be able to control and steer their vehicle without a problem by decelerating and turning the steering wheel in the direction of the bend.
That's why Michelin advises you to reduce the risks you take by fitting new or less worn tyres at the rear of the vehicle for:
- better grip on bends
- extra safety."
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I've got Toyo's on my Golf estate and they did slip and slide for a while but are now very predictable wet or dry.
New tyres have a coating of silicon mould release agent on them and the tyre fitter warned me to be careful for the first few hundred miles or so until it'd worn off
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This is strange. Yokohama are a pretty good tyre in my experience.
I would double check the pressures etc and drive carefully for the next couple of weeks to see if the top surface 'beds in' and the grip improves.
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Having had a lot of tyres for various applications i honestly say yoko's are terrible in the wet unless you are spending big money on proper wet tyres for track use. For a daily drive I swear by either continentals or toyo proxes.
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Having had a lot of tyres for various applications i honestly say yoko's are terrible in the wet
Nonsense. Yokohama Advan is an excellent wet-grip tyre and is now fitted as standard to the Lotus Elise because owners complained about wet-grip of the Pirelli P-Zeros they used to use. Here's are review: "Yokohama: Road. Overall similar results to those achieved in dry conditions. Track. Wet grip significantly higher than OE Pirelli, with handling bias slightly towards understeer. The tyre gives good grip to extreme slip angles as was shown in the previous dry assessment, and also has good resistance to aquaplaning. Good yaw stability throughout corner. Wet Grip Score 7.5, Handling 7 "
The A520, A539 are also well rated, but won't be as good as the Advan.
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Adam, they may well still need to bed in, they will need a few hundred dry miles before they are at their best in the wet. However if you really dont like them get two new tyes fitted and sell them on e-Bay, if they are almost as new you will probably get 60% of the cost back.
I dont buy the best-tyres-on-the-back argument, perhaps for a little old lady driving a 3 Series it makes sense so as to reduce the likelyhood of oversteer however for most cars/drivers the best tyres on the front improves wet braking and traction.
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Cheddar
Then you disagree with all the major tyre manufacturers and major retailers. Up to you, of course, but I wouldn't.
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Cheddar Then you disagree with all the major tyre manufacturers and major retailers. Up to you, of course, but I wouldn't.
Its a catch all, it is the only advice that works for everyone though for the likes of you, I, and of course Adam who know a little bit about these things then we can take a more informed decision for ourselves.
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Adam,
I always put my new tyres to the front... but that is a side issue. I also always buy tyres with a known good wet grip. My thinking is that's the time when you *really* need your tyres. So what if the dry grip is 5% down... just control the drift.
But by swapping round tyres with a poor wet grip you asking for real problems with a rear-end breakaway. Like other advice above I'd change them for some that better match the rears and EBay the old ones.
Folks often underestimate the potential for serious handling issues with front/rear pairs having very different wet behaviour.
David
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I don't read anywhere what type of Yokos Adam has had fitted. Yokos, according to tests, can be wither good or bad, depending on type, size, vehicle etc. From what I have read, and I read the German tests too because I can, Yokos are certainly not the best, but more mid-range.
I've just put some Pirelli P5000 on the front (to replace Bridgestone RE720) and am happy with them. They needed very little bedding in. I generally aim to buy tyres for grip in the wet.
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Saw a Fifth Gear prog years ago - the Q was whether to fit new tyres to the front or rear of a FWD car. Logically you'd think to fit them to the front, as the front end is both steering and traction. The test showed the car went better with the new ones on the rear, and the part-worn (but nowhere near the min) on the front. Can't remember who was doing the test, or the test technique.
Borrow a pair of axle stands and swop them front to rear would be my advice.
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Wow - thanks for all the info!
The tyres are Yoko S306's on a Focus saloon - they're 195/55/15s. Ordinarily I'd go to Costco and they'd put them on the back of the car and move the backs to the fronts but this time I went to a smaller (but well respected) tyre place near Liverpool and thye put them straight on the front.
The thing is, I can understand the warnings about putting the worst tyres (the Yokos) on the back - if they lose grip when on the back, it might prove difficult to pull the car back into line whereas where they are now on the front, it's pretty easy.
Unfortunately, changing them is not an option. I still have no job and I'm overdrawn by a significant amount (Mum and Dad sorted the tyres out for me - not to mention the new brakes and skimmed discs the other day) so I'm not in any rush to ask them again.
The tyres have probably got closer to 1000 miles on them but I've no idea how many have been in the wet so I might give it another week or two (by then they'll be more than worn in) and I think swap them. Don't worry - I'll drive carefully and see if they're any better in a few weeks.
It's really quite disconcerting though - it's like you're hitting diesel on bends. I'll double check the pressures after just to make sure. For what it's worth, the back has Michelins on (sorry - can't remember which model - the 80 quid ones from Costco though!).
Thanks very much for all the help and advice - I'll keep you informed of any developments that may.....develop!
Thanks again,
Adam
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If you have done nearly a thousand mile on them you would of thought the the rubber has worn in.
Im no expert but i cant see them getting any better with more use so like stated, stick them on the back or cough up for some new ones.If it was me i would hate to think id wasted my money so on the back they would go.
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Are they mounted correctly - unidirectional are just that - designed to work well in one direction only.
There will be arrows for rotationon unidirectional and inside/outside for asymetric.
Guy here had new tyres on his 3 series coupe and didn't notice they had put the unidirectional tyres on wrong way round!
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Adam
If you do put them on the back, do report in again and tell us whether you notice any difference.
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17 posts on tyres being crap...................... :-o
as said put them on the back
double check the pressures
new tyres need running in no excessive speeds
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It's amazing what a difference the tyres will make to the car's handling. I can't wait to wear out the terrible Avons on my car, because they're noisy, not grippy enough, and they weren't balanced when fitted by the previous owner so they weren't circular, and caused steering-wheel wobble and an irritating noise at speed. I had them balanced soon after buying the car and they're much better, but still don't feel quite right. The compound is also so hard that I'll probably still have them this time next year!
Adam, your problem might gradually disappear once the tyres begin to wear. Putting them on the back will make the problem less noticable in the short-term in terms of steering feel (until you lose the rear end around a sharp bend!), but there's always this constant debate about putting new tyres on the front or rear. I've always just put them wherever the old tyres came from, and never had a problem.
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The reason for putting new tyres on the back is given as "new tyres on the back will allow backbrakes under heavy braking not to exceed the front brakes and cause a spin";however ,most experienced drivers would prefer the grip at the front.
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I think I will put them on the back. Looks like I'll have a fun day tomorrow!
It's got to be the wet. I checked the pressures before - fine. I've just got in and went on a few demanding roads gradually increasing confidence and it never put a foot wrong. The roads I went on were all completely dry.
Bet you if it rains again later when I go out it'll be all over the show. Im a bit wary of the back losing grip but in the interests of science I'll swap them and report back.
Thanks again for all the advice and help,
Adam
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Adam, the S306 is a very old design now. I put those on my Mk1 Mondeo 1.8 petrol back in 2001. The size was 185/65 R14.
My opinion on the tyre was that it was very hard wearing, possbly due to very hard compound. This means the tyre is great for Amercian highways (sold there at the time) but offer little grip in cold, slightly damp condition (i.e. since late last week in UK). I used the S306 when I was still in university and did 30k on the front tyres with 3mm left when I sold the car, compared to the pair of A539 I used before the S306 which lasted only 10k at the front.
However, I noticed that the S306 tyres became more predictable in cold, damp condition half-way through the road rallies I used to do (i.e. less wheel lock-ups, less vibration through steering when the car started to understeer). I guess this is because the tyres got warmer and the rubber become more flexible through hot brakes and constant acceleration / deceleration.
If you are looking for a long lasting tyre, S306 is good enough but the tyre is not without its weakness.
I hope you didn't pay much for it either. I paid 36 pounds for the tyre and 5 pounds fitting back in 2001.
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Uh oh. I've been ripped off.
I paid a lot more than 36 quid. I paid more than twice that for each tyre. Or rather Dad did. We went wanting Michelins but they never had any and said they'd do us the Yokos for the same price.
Oh well! I'll know for next time!
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I don't think I would ever reckon to know better than the manufacturer about the best way to use a product, even in my own industry.
I worry about those who see comments dismissing what has to be well founded advice -- think of the legal dimensions -- without the better understanding that others (not me) may believe they have, and then do the same themselves on the grounds that "Oh, there is actually no agreement about putting the best tyres on the rear, so I'll do what I like". Such agreement exists among the major tyre manufacturers and retailers.
As a driver with 40 years' experience, I buy a product, I look at the manufacturer's recommendations and they are confirmed by a major retailer with no allegiance to any particular manufacturer. I heed the advice of both parties.
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Are you on about me there Rog? I've hard a hard day so I've probably missed something.
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"Oh, there is actually no agreement about putting the best tyres on the rear, so I'll do what I like". Such agreement exists among the major tyre manufacturers and retailers.
This has been widely debated on this forum before, and lots of people argued strongly each way. In my own opinion it would make very little difference with decent tyres. If you replace all 4 at once, you'll have new tyres on the front.
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I paid more than twice that for each tyre. Or rather Dad did. We went wanting Michelins but they never had any and said they'd do us the Yokos for the same price.
Ouch! Looking around on the net, the Yoko A460s and Michelins are about the same price (around £80), but the perfectly good Falken ZE512s are only £55 each fitted. Surely a brown focus saloon doesn't require anything more upmarket than Falkens! ;-)
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>.Ouch! Looking around on the net, the Yoko A460s and Michelins are about the same price (around £80)<<
Please don't Greg! It hurts too much!
It's Gold. Champagne. Certainly not brown!
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Adam, I remember advising you to get Michelin's, because you already had them on the rear. I hate mixing different makes of tyre.
My advice is to ask your dad to get a pair of Michelin's to match the other two. I am sure he would rather spend £160 on you, rather than seeing you in hospital, or worse. My son has just rung me to get him a new set of tyres for his MB SLK (no, he's not a hairdresser). I am happy to do so because I like to feel that he is as safe as possible.
Don't forget to tell your dad that one day he will rely on you, my dad is 91 and is always wanting something! Luckily we stopped him driving about 2 years ago.
Good luck with dad, I'm sure you will let us know what happens.
P.S. If the Yoko's are no good, do not put them on the rear, it will make the handling worse.
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£80 for a very common sized tyre seems pricy. It's a few years since I had a Focus, but I remember getting four Michelins of that size for it for £200 fitted. As for front or rear fitting check your handbook. Mine specifically states that new tyres should always go on the front.
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I only had Yokohamas once (I forget the exact code name of them), they were rubbish in the wet too, and wore out very quickly, attributes which rarely come together! I was surprised with them being Japanese, I imagined them to be made/designed with modern technology.
I also hear it rains a lot in japan.
Some people swear by them, but might be swayed by their motorsport advertising and product placement.
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One comment that has been missed.
If they tyres are dangerous why not go back to supplying place and ask for their comments and help. They are responsible for what they sell and fit; and should be keen on sorting it.
It may be as simple as a directional tyre misfitted or a faulty tyre etc.
Don't keep driving assuming it will get better though.
and for what its worth, as has been discussed loads before. on a fwd car I always put the new tyres on the front. On rwd cars they go on the back.
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If it's recommended new tyres always go on the rear, then why in the last upteen years have tyre places always just swapped the ones that needed swapping. Okay I have a company car but this seems like an excuse to make more money to take off wheels that don't need to be.
And I've had to fight at times with lease companies (had Dial, Swan and Leaseplan... okay Dial became Leaseplan and now owned by VW) to replace tyres sooner than they wanted to and always won on safety grounds.
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Quizman, if your son can afford an SLK, why is he not buying his own tyres????????
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Quizman, if your son can afford an SLK, why is he not buying his own tyres????????
That's a very good question, I had not thought of. I don't think he can really afford the SLK, it's on the drip!
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">I went to a smaller (but well respected) tyre place near Liverpool<"
">I still have no job<"
Move to London.
Yokos should be OK in the wet, perhaps not as good as .. er ... Goodyears, and certainly not as good as Vredesteins, but the Yokos shouldn't be scary.
Check tracking/alignment.
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