Think of the upside though. We´d all save a shedload of money on fuel, and there would be less of Clarkson screamin ´more power´ and powersliding Nobles round airfields. Which can only be a good thing.
Obviously track days would be exempt from the speed limits - those with a speed bent could just get a weekly blast round Snetterton, then resume their steady, sedate progress the rest of the time.
Less road deaths (probably), the end of speed camera ´partnerships´, and we could spend the money saved on petrol on, for example, red wine. Another good thing.
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>>Think of the upside though. We´d all save a shedload of money on fuel,<<
What if people don't mind spending money on fuel? (Me)
>>Less road deaths (probably)<<
There you go again - probably. Any evidence? I thought for one recent year, speed accounted for 7% of accidents. That's an awful lot of other causes.
>>and we could spend the money saved on petrol on, for example, red wine. Another good thing.<<
No thanks - I'd rather drink the petrol! ;-)
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Superb idea?
If i tried an overtake i could sit in the outside/offside lane all day, instead of nipping past safely
then there's the 'malfunction' because some clown centrally sets the limit incorrectly and we're all doing 50mph instead of the permitted 70mph
there'd be considerably more deaths and accidents purely because of the boredom factor (Paul Smith on safespeed.org explains it better than i could)
do the powers that be wish us to turn into robots or will they accept one day that we are individuals, that often do things differently.... within guidelines/ laws...........NOT strict rules set at a very low threshold
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The reality - those of us who obey the rules will drive around in the limited cars.
Those who don't will disconnect them and drive as they do now - untaxed, uninsured, unlicenced, and UNLIMITED.
It will do for road safety what the ban on handguns did for gun crime - absolutely nothing
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The same idea occured to me reading the same original thread. It is on the fine line between genius and insanity.
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I know this has been quoted before....but......is relevant again
Sir Douglas Bader had a quote "Rules were made for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools"
I don't want to be a fool.
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What a cracking idea - linked to GPS technology to automatically reduce the speed of the car to the immediate prevailing limit.
>>
iirc, is this not being tested already?
i think it may well be reality in another 10 years or so.
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Douglas Bader I seem to remember lost both his legs in an accident resulting dirctly from his failure to obey a rule prohibiting low flying. Sometimes rules exist for a reason.
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The electronics would be prohibitively expensive.
It would only be cheap if the electronics worked perfectly all of the time...which it does not. There will have to be two such devices in each car that can communicate with each other through feedback loops and hardware checks such that one channel or lane takes over if the other is sending erroneous signals.
Even then you only need the first mishap where instead of limiting the speed, the device accelerates the car which in turn results in a fatality. Disastrous.
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I hesitate to contribute to this thread as I was rounded upon when I suggested as much a year or two back... Oh well, here goes...
At some point in the not-too-distant future all new cars will be fitted with tamper-proof GPS-controlled speed limiters. There are obvious conclusions to be drawn about such things as rocketing values of older cars not fitted with limiters and cars being designed for neck-straining acceleration up to the legal speed limit. These considerations and any others you can think of will not stop the faceless bureaucrats using the technology as and when they consider it proven and politically acceptable. If you believe otherwise you are deluding yourself. Sorry.
Don't shoot me, I'm only the hapless messenger.
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maybe i should start saving for an AC Cobra now then.......... wonder if i could persuade SWMBO?
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At some point in the not-too-distant future all new cars will be fitted with tamper-proof GPS-controlled
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i thought i remembered something on this, and here it is
from january 2000:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/590387.stm
and from june 2003
www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/2070006/gps-tes...l
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I think that there are two options for this. One is to have a satellite-or-similar-based system which enforces the limit on all roads. Expensive, but will probably soon be feasible.
The other is a more modest device, which simply limits the top speed to whatever is the highest limit on that country's roads. Much simpler, much cheaper, and uses already-proven technology (as deployed in HGVs).
My guess is that the second type is not far off, and that the first will follow about a decade later after most of the bugs have been ironed out.
Whatever the merits or demerits of the GPS-based limiters (and I'm sure there will be plenty of problems), the debate will be curtailed, because the 70mph limiters will have met with so many howls of anguish from roadhogs who claim that their freedom is curtailed when their car cannot achieve an illegal speed. That illogicality will be repeated so loudly by the petrolheads and the makers of fast cars that by the time the system is implemented, its opponents will be perceived as discredited flat-earthers.
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I think if this ever happened I'd purposely drive my car into a tree to show how unsafe they are.
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Whatever the merits or demerits of the GPS-based limiters (and I'm sure there will be plenty of problems), the debate will be curtailed, because the 70mph limiters will have met with so many howls of anguish from roadhogs who claim that their freedom is curtailed when their car cannot achieve an illegal speed. That illogicality will be repeated so loudly by the petrolheads and the makers of fast cars that by the time the system is implemented, its opponents will be perceived as discredited flat-earthers.
If you can find it NW, have a look at Rudyard Kipling's slightly nasty and silly motoring story 'The Village that Voted the Earth was Flat' (1917 I think). I am sure you will disapprove, as the whole thing is a practical joke by rich motorists annoyed by speeding fines. He wrote another, similarly robust and unkind, pro-motorist (but rather anti-car in this case) story called Steam Tactics (1904). Same basic theme.
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We obviously can´t be trusted to keep to the speed limits - hence the 1000s of speed cameras out there.
Police would suddenly be able to concentrate on real crime, in the knowledge that the speeding motorist is a thing of the past.
Why are people against something that merely enforces exisiting legislation? Personally, I wouldn´t use a knife on a plane, I don´t carry one around, but I´m glad scanners and checks are there to prevent people doing so - again, technology merely enforcing existing legislation.
Or are people so desperate to break the law these days?
The arguments against are looking a bit weak to me - traffic stacking up on the motorway etc etc.
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>>Police would suddenly be able to concentrate on real crime, in the knowledge that the speeding motorist is a thing of the past.>>
"A speeding motorist" IS committing "a real crime."
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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If you can find it NW, have a look at Rudyard Kipling's slightly nasty and silly motoring story 'The Village that Voted the Earth was Flat' (1917 I think).
Thanks, Lud. Found it at tinyurl.com/gfhya and will read it later.
I am sure you will disapprove, as the whole thing is a practical joke by rich motorists annoyed by speeding fines.
Actually, I usually quite like Kipling. He's long been out of fashion, but many people don't spot his heavy use of irony, and I have always like Orwell's assessment of him as a "good bad poet ". He has a kanck of saying things that make everyone uncomfortable, which I admire.
In that vein (and starying a little off-topic), there were two interesting articles in this weekend's motoring telegraph on climate change. I won't post the links here, but I do enjoy reading articles of whatever persuasion in places I don't expect to find them.
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Actually, I usually quite like Kipling. He's long been out of fashion, but many people don't spot his heavy use of irony, and I have always like Orwell's assessment of him as a "good bad poet ".
He was a great writer NW and I've always been an enthusiast, but he isn't exactly likeable at all times, if you see what I mean. Times really have changed a bit since then. I never enjoyed that very robust, slightly sadistic heartiness even when I was first at school and there was still a fair amount of it about.... Being able to stand it doesn't necessarily mean you like it.
How clever of you to find it so fast. 'Steam Tactics' is also there, in a 1904 collection.
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You are right Alan. Of course it is going to happen. The fact that it may be a stupid idea has nothing whatever to do with that. Probably the reverse - totalitarian regimes love technological control mechanisms for their own sake, even if they don't work.
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Hey CP, that's the stuff.
barchettaman, what makes you think the police are wasting time worrying about speeding motorists? Plod on the whole - traffic plod I mean - has quite a nuanced view of this question, although they sometimes pull people for form's sake.
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Not worthy of discussion!
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Oh OK it is!
If only to repeat and add to my point on the Dangerous driving pt2 thread:
Speed does not kill, it is hitting something that kills and if averarge speeds are ever lowered the congestion will increase and congestion is a causal factor in RTAs. I know, lets have clever electronic devices that dont allow the car to start if the surounding roads are too busy!
Efforts need to be made to allow swift passge without increasing risk this having the double benefit of reducing journey times and reducing congestion.
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>>Police would suddenly be able to concentrate on real crime, in the knowledge that the speeding motorist is a thing of the past.<<
Police aren't tied up with motoring crime. I think you'll find Traffic Sections are being reduced severely. Speed traps are manned by civillians most of the time.
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a cheaper alternative is just implant a chip in everyones head and if its seen by the "big one" that you are disobeying speed limits a small electrical charge could be emitted by "big one" to slow you down or feel the pain......
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is this "big one" a SWMBO type creature
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What a good idea oldy. It could shock us if we buy knives, or pens, or anything electrical.
After all, we could hurt somoene with them couldn't we?
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yes adam
the big one isnt swmbo its like the wicked witch behind the curtain in the wizard of oz all powerful...............
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if its seen by the "big one" that you are disobeying speed limits a small electrical charge could be emitted Why stop there? - pull the lever for disobeying anything, or for having incorrect thoughts.
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- pull the lever >>
An ejector seat!
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No such thing as "Tamper Proof" in my book! Remember how long Chip & Pin lasted before it was compromised (Shell Garages)? Anything GPS based will be subject to some easily purchased jammer or blocker, probably on E Bay.
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Tin foil.
Tunnels.
Buy a car that doesn't need any electrical power to run.
I'm on the ball today.
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Tin foil.
I'm on the ball today. when i was young i used to tell everyone my tv was covered in tin foil so the defecter van would never find it.............
The strange thing was ,many people believed me . :-o
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Buy a car that doesn't need any electrical power to run. I'm on the ball today.
Hmm, an old-style diesel with a cranking handle and a blow torch for heating up the cylinder head. What fun. Great for exceeding the speed limit.
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Ok - the electical thing was a bad idea. I was hasty when thinking that up. But i think the tin foil would work.
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Ok - the electical thing was a bad idea. I was hasty when thinking that up. But i think the tin foil would work.
Got to be worth a try. Perhaps a clever arrangement of reflectors could slow everyone else down thus unimpeding your rapid progress through the lanes of Lancashire.
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a blipper for turning red lights to green would be better
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I like your thinking Baskerville. I think I'll give that a whirl actually.
Not only functional, but it would look good too.
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Adam, I tried a quadruple layer of foil on the aerial of my GPS - aerial on rear parcel shelf - and it still pulled in a very good signal! Any other ideas - lead perhaps?
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AS - I believe you need to earth the foil.
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Lead. Good idea.
Incidentallly - what about kit cars? Could they force you to fit a GPS system?
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>>I think you'll find Traffic Sections are being reduced severely>>
This is very true and has been for several years, as two of my one time traffic cop mates will testify. Much of this cutback was due to the spread of speed cameras, which don't address many of the serious problems on our roads such as poor or dangerous driving.
Those who would wish to impose speed limiters and more sinister methods of curtailing/rationing our activities are control feaks, whether in reality or who would love to be able to impose such sanctions. It's not just government, local councils are becoming increasingly active in this area as, for instance, many motorists will confirm.
As pointed out in other postings above, this country is increasingly fostering a totalitarian regime yet, for some unfathomable reason, the majority of the population seems completely oblivious or immune to the fact.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Probably the reverse - totalitarian regimes love technological control mechanisms for their own sake, even if they don't work.
The "free" market will bring this in, not the government. Fancy cheaper motoring insurance if you have this fitted?
Actually I'd favour this if it allowed a margin for error and gave you a get out of trouble cushion, say 80mph on the 70 mph motorway with a time limit (say 20 seconds?), after which you get fined. Driving all day at 150 on a track would still be ok of course.
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I have a speed limiter built in. It reacts to all speed limits in all countries automatically. It will also react quickly to current prevailing road/traffic/weather conditions. Most of its sensors are duplicated and the central processor is extremely fast in operation.
It also has the ability to control the rate of acceleration, interior temperature, radio, windows, seat position etc, all in one unit.
It's called a brain. I go nowhere without it.
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Having put this thread up hoping that NowWheels and Mark would cintinue their animated discussion began on the Safety thread, I´m a bit disappointed they haven´t taken the bait, as I was looking forward to it. Ah well.
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>>I´m a bit disappointed they haven´t taken the bait
I'd be a bit disappointed if I was that easy to rile.
Anyway, DD said stop - and he probably means it, he usually does and my comments below said all I had to say.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=44...5
M.
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MIM - perhaps you could arrange to have your brain cloned and issued to Volvo and BMW drivers (daytime fog lights, tailgating, indicators not used etc?)
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Shame that so many cars out there appear to be piloted by drivers who are missing that optional extra!
I agree though, none of us drive at our cars maximum speed all the time, if ever. Therefore we are already limiting ourselves to what we believe to be safe and reasonable. If we all got a bit better at that and *were* able to adjust to conditions (many don't seem to be able to) then electronic speed limiters would never need happen.
If only life worked that way! ;)
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