I took a BMW salesman out for a run in my car aon Wednesday night and this is what he had to say about it.
Straight from the mouth of Mr BMW Salesman.
"if the biggest requirement of customers that came to see me was value for money, then I'd never sell another car again compared to this. But most of the people that I deal with, value for money isn't a major priority, they're prime interest is how much BMW can I get for my money/monthly leasing allowance"
Which I thought was quite apt.
MTC
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Well I had an enjoyable test drive in a 300CRD Touring though I have to say that, like most cars, it?s a bit of a curates egg. I already loved the exterior styling of the saloon but wasn?t so taken with the photos of the Touring thinking it too clumsy and hearse-like, but in the flesh it looked fine and still had great presence. The boot doesn?t look that big being quite shallow but as pointed out the floor was false, full of cubby holes and could be removed, thus opening up the space and increasing capacity.
Unfortunately the car was brand new, pre-PDI and at that stage apparently hadn?t been officially launched, so the car had just under 200 miles on the clock. Consequently the engine felt very tight and so performance, specifically acceleration, felt very lethargic and I really had to floor the engine to get the autobox to shift. That said, cruising at 70+mph was effortless and based on my experience of other diesels, I?m quite sure that the engine will loosen up after a decent running in and that it will prove to be a strong and refined engine. There was little road noise at any speed which is impressive given the large wheels, though at higher speeds there was a surprisingly intrusive amount of wind noise from the A-pillar. The ride is a bit fidgety at low speeds but is very comfortable when on the move. The steering is pretty numb, for me even more so than my Audi. The ride is cosseting and lovely on a motorway, more smooth than my car but even on a gently undulating A-road I found it a bit too floaty and wallowy for my liking and when I took through a series of roundabouts on a stretch of road that I know well, I became really conscious of the car?s weight and had to take it much easier than I normally would. The ride reminded me of a 607 or Safrane. Audi are often and rightly criticized for producing cars that with steering that is too remote and I found the 300C to be similar in this respect. To be honest for most of the driving that I do, the ride quality would be fine and probably wouldn?t be a deal breaker as I guess that I would get used to it, though driving home in my car, admittedly not the best handling in this class, the Audi overall felt much more involving, controlled and planted and I felt like I was sitting in the car rather than on it; much more confident at every stage. From memory, ride and handling of a 3 or 5 series is in a different league again from either my car and certainly the 300C, though I?m going to try to organize tests in a run-in 300c back to back with a 5 series, to get some fresh impressions.
The cabin was big and comfortable but what is more likely to be the dealbreaker is the cockpit which on the whole IMO was unforgiveably naff, with too much prominent plastic that looked cheap and bad and felt worse. The dials themselves I liked, the switchgear was ok, the top of the dash has got a decent finish but the centre console, steering column, glovebox, bits of the fascia and the steering wheel seemed very average in fit and finish and in this respect was bettered by the rental Focus I had last week. The driving seat was very comfortable but I seemed to be sat on it rather than in it and as there wasn?t much in the way of bolsters I seemed to roll around a bit on cornering. The drivers footwell felt offset which was awkward for my left leg, though again this might be something to get used to.
So IMO gorgeous exterior styling, decently finished and large cabin, lots of standard equipment, smooth and refined ride, and most importantly in this car, what I?m quite sure is a cracking engine. However I?ve got to balance these positives against that numb handling and steering and more importantly for me with the mileage I do, whether I could live with the driving position and the poor finish of the cockpit. So, for me it's far from a no-brainer and in some important and intrinsic respects it's a generation or two behind the competition, but for a good-looking big car with a powerful engine and an equipment list as long as your arm, on that budget, it?s hard to beat.
Actually another important positive is that the showroom staff were very pleasant and went out of their way to accommodate me. They called me when they realized that the initial test drive would not be possible and when I did turn up, their demo car was not available so they were happy to let me out in the Touring. Also it was the salesperson who suggested that I return for another test drive in a fully run in model, which I fully intend to do. Ironically, they are located in a large wing of the local MB franchise who IME and by reputation are one of the most unhelpful and discourteous outfits in the area. The contrast could not have been starker.
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Hi Martin
I've been dying to read what you thought of the car and I'm chuffed that you gave it a fair crack of the whip.
There is one thing that you said that I've really had to scratch my head over. I'm 6ft 3in tall, long legged and weigh the other side of 18 stone and for me comfort is VERY important, in fact more important than say very sharp handling or blistering acceleration.
It's your mention of the offset footwell for your left leg (a minor point, but you'll understand why in a moment).
I ordered my 300C without having the benefit of a test drive (blind faith or what ?) and one day I read a road test of the car to see what the tester thought. By and large the car got a really "healthy" score for most items, but a "poor" score for a few (didn't like the steering wheel, plastics, glove compartment), but what really put him off was the very heavily offset sitting position.
Somebody I know who was also buying a 300C suffers from a bad back and I told him what I'd read and that he had best be sure that the offset pedals didn't give him any problems. The chap took the car out for a 2 hour run and came back with the good news - very comfortable and the pedals weren't offset at all.
Relieved by the news I carried on with my order and awaited my cars arrival in January. Since then I've covered 5500 miles in absolute comfort without any hit of "offsetness" at all. Several people have driven my car, but again noone has ever mentioned anything about the pedal position. As well as being on here, I contribute to an owners forum and I have never heard anything about "offset pedals", but obviously it exists, because you and this other road tester have both commented on it.
Strange
On the Touring/Saloon front, I'm very much in favour of the Saloon on looks alone. Even though I could sometimes use some extra carrying space, this is one instance where my heart ruled my head and I plumped for the saloon.
Theres loads of things in your post I'd like to chat with you about, but I don't want to hijack the thread !
MTC
p.s. I sometimes wonder about the dilemmas in Mr Chryslers design department. Do we keep the price low and blitz the opposition in value for money, or do we match the carpets/wood/plastics etc and price ourselves out of the market ?
p.p.s. I ordered my car with the optional Californian Walnut Trim, but it came with the standard Tortoiseshell trim. I was a bit miffed at the time, but not enough to reject the car. On several occassions, passngers have said how much they like the Tortoiseshell and ask me if it was an expensive option !
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Sorry I wasn't clear, I didn't think that the pedals were offset, rather that the footwell was offset. In my car I can rest my left leg straight ahead on the foot rest whereas in the 300C the left side of the drivers footwell seemed pretty restricted and I had to sit with my left leg at angle. It's not a killer but it was fairly uncomfortable and I was conscious of it throughout the drive. It'll be June before I have time for another test drive so l'll put it out of my head and see if bothers me when I return to it.
I agree with you that the saloon looks the better of the two but the touring does look better in the flesh than it does in photos, where I think it looks like a bad photoshop. The increased capacity of the A6 avant (seats up) over the saloon is marginal, some 20 litres and likewise whilst I don't know the specs and didn't see the false floor removed, I'd be surprised if the capacity of the 300C touring with the seats up was much, if indeed any, bigger than the saloon, so IMO you've lost little practicality.
As I see it most of the cars we drive are compromises in some respect and our varying priorities and tastes push us in different directions. A more extensive options list with suspension and interior fitting options would be the ideal solution but then I guess this would make the entire production process more complex and costly and then you'd likely end up with a £30k+ car.
That's a shame about the steering wheel but it's hard to imagine that it can't easily be swapped out.
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Hi Martin
Thanks for the reply. I know what you mean about the footweell space now. My previous car was a Rover 75, the the footwell of the 300C seems huge by comparison - but possibly not huge compared to your usual car.
As for my heart/head for saloon over estate, today I am going to win bigtime with the lower carrying capacity of the saloon (a paltry 604 lt's) when I get dragged off to the garden centre.
From your recent roadtest you'd commented on the handling not being as "involved" as your usual Audi - my friend who has a Passat estate said exactly the same thing - but he then went on to say that it was probably a different driving style that he would need to adapt to. On the same weekend I had to to a high speed hospital run and I can confirm for you that when you needd to push the car hard (& please believe me I did) then it really can move on a A road at quite an "ahem" adequate rate, the main difference I found from previous cars was that it was a lot more important to get your road position/cornering lines correct to aid better progress.
I'm not going to pretend that it handles like a sportscar, but for the motoring I do, it is exactly what I wanted i.e. a powerful, spacious, comfortable, long legged, highly specced, 35 mpg, well priced, long legged high speed cruiser.
MTC
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It's time for an update.
Did Vin or Martin Sweeny ever take things further and actually buy one ?
My car goes from strength to strength. I've got over 7000 miles on now, the car is fully run in and completely loosened up.
The performance for such a heavy car is very, very acceptable - more of a surprise has been the economy - 41 mpg on a recent 250 mile motorway run.
But 4 months down the line, people still stare, folks in car parks ask me about it, and people overtaking me on the motorway nearly cause themselves an injury twisting around to get a closer look.
Absolutely outstanding value for money and a daily pleasure to drive & own.
MTC
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I was very interested. My local Jeep dealer (clue, near Chelsea FC training ground) was very keen when I went in, sat me down, took all my details, no - they couldn't give me a brochure, but would contact me when the estate car version was released at the end of April approx.
Guess what has happened since then?
That's right! How did you know?
Nothing. Zilch. Zero. Silence.
Is it because they have a waiting list until Xmas 2009? If so, why bother with all the chat?
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you know something drbe, you're not the first person to say something similar to that.
i'm also on a car forum and there are 2 really strong points that jeep coming up,
1) People who have the cars, without exception, absolutely love them
2) The dealer network doesn't do itself any favours, with lots of contributors grumbling about the lack of professionalism that they show.
I must be immensely lucky because my local dealer (E.S Hartley at Ings in The Lake District) has been absolutely 100% in all of my dealings with them. It's a pity that you are so far away, as I'm sure that they would treat you with the respect that you require.
MTC
p.s. I've got a brochure of the saloon & estate in front of me, anything I can help you with ?
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I ordered a brochure and it arrived within 2 weeks. Local dealer has a few saloons and now an estate in black....estate looks good, maybe even better than the saloon....
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I ordered a brochure and it arrived within 2 weeks. Local dealer has a few saloons and now an estate in black....estate looks good, maybe even better than the saloon....
Having seen a black 300C touring with tints, I'm not so sure.
Silver estate with tints looks very nice, black estate with tints makes it look a bit like a pink fluffy dice
I wanted an estate originally for the extra boot space over the saloon. With the seats up the space only increases a bit up to 600 lts, but with the seats down it increases to a truly massive 1600 lts.
In the end I went for the saloon and up to now it has been a great motoring experience.
MTC
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Would I be correct (!)in saying that the so called estete of the 300C is in fact a Dodge? Or am I talking nonsense?
BTW I LOVE the 300C. I wish it was on our company scheme... what's the nearest VAG product to it? Oh yes that's right, there isn't one...
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is it a Dodge ?
yes and no.
it's a Dodge Magnum exterior, with a 300C front end and a 300C interior.
This is the American Dodge Magnum
tinyurl.com/5dvwk
and this is the european 300c Touring
tinyurl.com/fsnc8
if you go a google image search you'll get a few more piccies.
But be aware that the wheels on the 300c are the same as on the Dodge Magnum, not the chrome affairs that some pictures show.
MTC
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MTC, what on earth did you write that set off the star machine?
Was it the word hearse? If so I can think of many words that would set off the same machine, not least a town in the North East. If Typhoo put the T in Britain, who put the...
Finish the joke yourselves.
Anyway, I am glad I didn't imagine the Magnum/300C scenario. It's nice to realise I am still an anorak.
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No Murph, I've been away since April but I've got to sort out a decent 1 or 2 day test next month, hopefully relatively back to back with the alternatives.
Clearly I can't speak of the ownership experience but as I mentioned above I was impressed with the service I received from the showroom staff.
I'm still not sure on the styling of the estate but I think that the black makes it look too much of a hearse. I can't remember, do the seats fold down in the saloon?
I'll let you know how it pans out but it's great to hear that you're is still getting such a kick out of your car.
"I wish it was on our company scheme... what's the nearest VAG product to it? Oh yes that's right, there isn't one..."
I'm not sure what you mean by "the nearest" but depending on what you're looking for, VAG, like most of the major groups, has a few fine alternatives to the 300C.
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Hi Martin
I hope that you enjoy your extended road test and hopefully this time, the car will have a few more miles on it so that you are able to drive it more naturally.
I'm with you on the looks of the estate car in black, especailly with tints it does look a cocorners hearse - probably due to the size of the thing !
As for the seats, yep they fold 60/40.
MTC
stevied - a comparison to a VAG product ?
For size & spec an A6 or Phaeton would be closest - but they would cost you £12000 - £16000 more for the same specced car.
As a cash comparison, aGolf GT TDI with the same spec on would get to £26000 (£300 ish more than a 300C)
But for visual impact - the VAG have nothing that makes the same impression as a 300C (IMHO).
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it does look a cocorners hearse
Is that a coroner for clowns?
:o( Ride free big footed wig wearing entertainer dude.
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>> it does look a cocorners hearse Is that a coroner for clowns? :o( Ride free big footed wig wearing entertainer dude.
indeed it would be.
coco the coroner !
MTC
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That?s good news on the folding seats and makes me wonder about the wisdom of plumping for the estate.
The 300C certainly beats anything from VAG in terms of standard spec but, though important, this hardly makes the choice a no-brainer . If this was the only basis for buying a car then we?d all be driving Korean and Japanese motors, or run-out models and I wouldn?t be still looking at alternatives after my 300C test drive. The 300C appeals strongly to me on many levels but the fact is that there are compromises to be made as, regardless of the extensive equipment list and its numerous other strengths, in a couple of important areas the 300C is bettered by the Golf, Focus, Passat and A4 and well beaten by the A6, 3 and 5 series, E-Class and Phaeton.
It?s all subjective, but in terms of exterior design I think that the A6, Phaeton and 300C, are all equally successful in their own quite different ways. To my eyes, the A8 in the right colour/wheel combination is breathtaking and leaves them all trailing in its wake.
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That?s good news on the folding seats and makes me wonder about the wisdom of plumping for the estate.
Thank goodness for freedom of choice and for the fact that we do have such a big choice.
No car is ever perfect, but for MY requirements this car fits the bill closer than anything else I have ever come across.
MTC
p.s. when I say that it's not perfect I mean it. The centre armrest has a hard surafce and is uncomfortable in prolonged use. If you drive with your left arm resting you'll find this out on your prolonged test drive. Don't let this put you off the car though - a £50 fix from America improves things out of all recognition.
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I couldn't agree more with your sentiment. We're currently spoilt rotten by almost all of the current manufacturers which is why I find this irrational propensity to indiscrimately snipe at all the output from French manufacturers, VAG or Fiat/Alfa so tiresome.
I do use the centre armrest but didn't notice it to be a problem, but good to know there's a fix if it is. Thanks for that.
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Martin
Here's a picture of how it will look after the fix
tinyurl.com/kz9w7
what it doesn't show is the 1/2 inch of padding that makes it so comfy !!
MTC
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Flip, I see what you mean. I think I'd rather sit on that than on the middle seat in the back of the A6.
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The 300C CRD Touring I drove in Scotland a couple of weeks ago had a sort of alcantara centre armrest and was much more comfortable to slop a left arm onto than I remember in the original saloon. Chrysler says sold out, but the brokers don't. Check with www.drivethedeal.com HJ
I'm led to believe that when you actually try and order a CRD from a broker, it becomes a litle bit more "ahem" complicated and "ahem" dearer.
MTC
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I have seen two of these this week.
A rep came to me on Monday in a CRD. You would not have known that it was diesel. Great imposing car, the equivalent Mercedes that he was offered was a C class
The second 300C was not too good: a stretch limo in white - yuk!
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I have seen two of these this week. A rep came to me on Monday in a CRD. You would not have known that it was diesel. Great imposing car, the equivalent Mercedes that he was offered was a C class The second 300C was not too good: a stretch limo in white - yuk!
The weird thing is, if you travel to the US, white (cool vanilla) 300's are not an unusual site (not my cup of tea) and they don't look out of place at all.
In the UK I don't think that it would look to nice.
On the colour front, in the UK we are quite limited as to what we can have. Even in America you cannot choose red unless you go for the heritage edition version - but IMHO it looks great.
tinyurl.com/ehnjd
MTC
p.s. has anyone picked up on the high performance 300c SRT-8 that is about to be launched in Britain (in both saloon & estate).
More details here
Surely the ultimate big bad wolf in wolfs clothing
tinyurl.com/kqnxh
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The 300C CRD Touring I drove in Scotland a couple of weeks ago had a sort of alcantara centre armrest and was much more comfortable to slop a left arm onto than I remember in the original saloon.
> HJ
.
It might have been the Startech/Brabus armrest cover that come as part of a (IMHO) expensive makeover option (£750 for an armrest cover and door inserts - to dear for this pussycat)
MTC
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HJ, out of curiosity, what roads in Scotland did they use for the test?
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Review of the estate version:
snipurl.com/rmin
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Review of the estate version: snipurl.com/rmin
It gets a good review (no surprise there), but I am a bit surprised by the quoted performance figures.
It's very nearly the same weight as the saloon, it enjoys the same (bricklike) aerodynamics as the saloon, has the same engine/gearbox as the saloon, but the 0-60 is over 1 second slower.
curious.
MTC
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I guess it depends on how and who did the testing. The 106 GTi and the Saxo VTS are all but the same car however the Saxo is slightly quicker to 60 on paper. If you do some research you find out that peugeot use a different method than citroen - peugeots figures are with two people, some luggage and half a tank of fuel whereas citroen is just one person, no luggage and minimal fuel.
In the real world there no difference.
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I guess it depends on how and who did the testing. The 106 GTi and the Saxo VTS are all but the same car however the Saxo is slightly quicker to 60 on paper. If you do some research you find out that peugeot use a different method than citroen - peugeots figures are with two people, some luggage and half a tank of fuel whereas citroen is just one person, no luggage and minimal fuel. In the real world there no difference.
Fair comments Mr Haddock
But the figures that i am talking about come from the Chrysler UK website who I would have thought have a vested interest in presenting as positive as picture as they could.
In other countries (Holland for one) the official figures are a lot closer.
MTC
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But the figures that i am talking about come from the Chrysler UK website who I would have thought have a vested interest in presenting as positive as picture as they could.
Sometimes estates have different final drive ratios - although I'd be pretty surprised if that's the case on this carIn other countries (Holland for one) the official figures are a lot closer.
That is strange.
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I picked up my diesel Touring yesterday. I'd never seen any on the road before but passed 2 on the way to the garage.
If you phone about you can find several dealers with cars available from stock.
I got mine home and within about 30 seconds someone in a new XJ8 stopped his car, wound his window down and said mine was the best car he had ever seen. As a former Jag owner, I can understand his envy.
I have had many, many prestige cars, but none have given me the pleasure this has. None have created the reaction this has either! It si simply the most stunning vehicle on the road today.
It's also the best value around - by many thousands.
Sure - an Audi may be better put together, a BMW may drive better and a Merc may lose a few % less over 3 years. £ for £ this is infinitely better. My neighbour has a Merc CLS 500 and he was out last night droolong over the 300C. He has just ordered an Aston Martin - and he was still drooling over the 300C. Need I say more?
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Hi Desperate Don
Another 300C owner on Honest John - hopefully between you and I we can tell all of these heathens what they are missing !!
MTC
p.s. there is a dedicated 300Cforum elsewhere with an active British section - am I allowed to post the address ?
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It's the badge, too many memories of the dreadful Chrysler Alpine.
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It's the badge, too many memories of the dreadful Chrysler Alpine.
That's OK.
May I suggest that times have changed since then quite a lot.
A bit closer to home Skoda used to be a running joke, but now it seems to be very highly regarded by owners & journos alike.
MTC
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Well no one has said no !!
The 300C forum can be found at www.300cforums.com/forums/ and we even have our own Diesel & European section. The website is run in Americania and they don't get the concept of diesel cars.
MTC
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Hi MTC
You can always tell a 300C driver - fixed grin gives it away every time.
Pamela was a bit sad to say goodbye to the MX5 (new model with only 1,500 miles) but even she loves the 300C. There is nothing to compare with this car - it's that good. I've had Jags, Audis, BMWs, Saabs, VWs - the lot - and this car has grabbed me like no other ever has. £30,000 is a lot of money but to get anything near the quality, size, performance and toys from any other manufacturer would cost far more. I don't think I would ever return to the so-called luxury marques again.
And no - the 300C was not a straight swap for the MX5!! It replaced another car and the MX5 was traded in as part of a larger package.
I think it must be the heathens that stand with mouths wide open when I waft by in my new transport. Perhaps they are Jag, Audi, BMW, Saab or VW drivers. I defy anyone to actually drive the car and not want one.
Thanks for your welcome MTC. It's nice to belong here.
DD
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Can't think where else to put this gem - was in Bruges over the weekend and it looks like the taxi driving fraternity over there have taken to the 300c - saw at least three of them when I was there. If taxi drivers are using them, it's got to say good things about their reliability! Had absolutely no reason or time to take a ride in one, but they really are the "Sopranos" of the current set of cars. Low, mean and heavy looking. Real presence.
Lee -- There\'s no place like 127.0.0.1
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I seem to remember in the original HJ roadtest on the 300C (especially the diesel) that HJ thought that every private hire owner/driver would look to have one.
MTC
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Just got in from shanghai
300C are becoming quite popular considering the high taxes for imported cars. Saw more of these compared to Jags
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Ahh, I se that you went for the "fixed silly grin" option as well - I think that every 300C buyer must have gone for it as well.
You really do get an awful lot of car for your money - and at £26000 your'e talking mid range 3 series BMW money and you just get so much more with a 300C.
MTC
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Does this take the prize for the largest number of posts in a thread?
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drbe,
I believe it does. However, I am contemplating spliting it into 3 separate threads (2 x 100 locked posts, and the remainder in another) to make it easier for people still on dial up to access easier.
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there is a limit on how many posts there can be in a thread without it locking itself up.
DD.
Now completed - DD
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Has MTC noticed that perhaps his 300C will not quite be the biggest kid on the block...
For those of you unable to cope with a car only 16.5 ft long....here's a bigger one....
www.chrysler.com/chrysler_lifestyle/news_features/...w
Obviously more room to fit in well padded mafia bosses, long legged gangsters etc...
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I don't know which way to jump.
I am going to need a new car in the not too distant future - point is, what? I use my car for business (private hire - see profile) Do I get another E Class estate or a 300C Tourer? Do I let my heart rule my head?
I really fancy a 300C. What are they like in black? Are they difficult to keep clean, should I stick to sensible old silver?
Questions, questions.
Where's MTC when you want him?
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Where's MTC when you want him?
I'm here dear !!!!!
Answers, answers.
On the 300C furum there are quits a few people who have jumped ship from E Class to 300C and so far they all seem to be very happy with the swap. Not only have they saved £1000's of pounds, but they are also driving a car that people remember rather than another anonymous looking car. That being said, I would really, really recommend that you closely examine the "estate" portion of the 300C Touring - it is quite an unusual shape and whilst the seat down volume of the car is huge, the seat up volume isn't that much more than the saloon. For your private hire purposes, it could be a real deal breaker.
Here's the best picture of a 300C Touring in the flesh that i have
tinyurl.com/lppfn
but if you do a google search on 300C touring and then click on images, you'll get quite a few more (& in various colours as well).
As for colour - IMHO, Brilliant Black looks absolutely stunning when clean. I enjoy cleaning my car, & for Arnie to get a cleanup once a week isn't a chore to me. However, if the car was my livelihood, I think that I would soon tire of the regular claening that I would have to do.
Silver would be the best colour on that front, but Mineral Grey looks like a good compromise.
tinyurl.com/nrn5v
Usually, I would be all full of "buy a 300C" you won't regret it - but this time, the unusual estate design might make the car unsuitable.
MTC
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It must also take the prize for the most posts from one individual - nearly 80. Yawn.
BTW, I think the 300C is an impressive piece of kit. But really...
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It must also take the prize for the most posts from one individual - nearly 80. Yawn. BTW, I think the 300C is an impressive piece of kit.
Hi Mike
I was going to ask if I get a special award for making so many posts - mabye a 300C shaped banana or something, but sadly (sob, sob, tears, tears) it looks like not everyone appreciates my enthusiasm for the car.
To my many fans (OK my cat), so long cruel world, I bid you farewell. I tried to make you all happy, but I failed. :) :)
MTC
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A nice hi-res video review over at What Car?:
www.whatcar.com/news-article.aspx?NA=221532
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great find runboy and I can't really take issue with anything that they said.
But a 200 mile range on the 5.7 lt Hemi must be a very scary thing 9funnily enough American drivers are getting about 20 miles per US gal (24 Uk) in mixed driving which makes it a bit more accpetable.
The only grey cloud is depreciation - whilst demand outstrips supply and the dealers are reluctant to discount, it may not be as steep as the doomsayers predicted.
MTC
p.s. that's the first 300C driver that I've seen without a silly grin plastered across his chops.
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Saw a 300c estate or is it touring? filling up on diesel - In black - very nice, although have to say the 4 dr looks better imo. Still a very nice car.
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"It must also take the prize for the most posts from one individual - nearly 80. Yawn.
BTW, I think the 300C is an impressive piece of kit. But really..."
Well I think the bigger prize must surely go to the individual who ACTUALLY sat down and counted the number of posts by Murphy the cat!
Yawn!
That must account for a surfeit of time surely!
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