Oh yes N does want a mini, best friend has a mini convertable. But boot too small and its too dear,
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Oh Dear
Big row today.
Well we went to Renault, and tested the clio. Car tested was a 1.4 dynamique. This is a very grown up car indeed. It really does drive, ride and sound like a much bigger car. Its quiet, very good ride quality, good seats - all in all its a cracker. The interior fit and finish is impressive, good quality plastics, easily meets current industry best. Lot of room inside.
I can probablly get the required wagon for about 10k with 0% finance . so it makes it 1.5k dearer than the Ibiza. but with the 0% the cost to change over 4 years is very similar.
I am doing my best to broaden the choice I really am. We stopped off on the way back where there is a Toyota garage and a Ford garage. A poke around at the Yaris garnered a very less than enthusiastic look from Nicole. ( I have to say the interior style and quality looks and feels like a cheap Hinari stereo from Currys after sitting in the clio) and when the salesman said the two day test drive was in a 1.0, that got a withering look. I made the mistake of saying "thats the three cylinder then" We were not happy about having a test in a car with one cylinder short of clio.
Then the row "lets have a look at a fiesta" I says. We look at it from 15 yards away. " I am not having one, its pooey" Refused to sit in it , or look at the vast boot. I mentioned that she was being irrational, and we then had a very large row in the Ford showroom.
Looks like a new Clio 1.4 expression (or dynamique) will be on the drive of TVM towers, and Nicole will not be called Conchita. (or Lotus Blossum)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Given that you seemed to have got this boxed off in the space of one weekend, I'd be heading off down the pub to award myself a celebratory pint.
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Well we went to Renault, and tested the clio. Car tested was a 1.4 dynamique. This is a very grown up car indeed.
Funny that, we had a Clio 1.6RXE when the series II first came out (new in 1998) and we thought it drove like a much bigger car. The problem with that is that you lose the fun element of a small car - it all seems slow witted and dull. It was amazing how the basic 1.0L courtesy car I got when ours was being serviced was actually more enjoyable to drive.
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Stop press, - I have convinced Nicole to look a a peugeot as well. - Next weekend.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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What about a KA?, £7,590 w/AC for the 1.3i, very popular choice amongst young women in my end of the woods.
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Ka, = too small
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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TVM - please report back on progress - this story is great.
At least Nicole knows her mind - you should be grateful for that - all I get is "well a car is a car - I'm not bothered what I drive" and she treats it that way too.
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She wont like it, She will end up with the Clio.
New 207 is to big & heavy for the weedy engines that pull it along, The gearchange is typical Pug, RUBBISH & also check out the joke they call the glovebox.
Tight lazy french couldnt be bothered to move the fuse box for right hand drive so you get an extra small cubby hole glovebox you cant fit anything in.
ESP is an optional extra on most & basic spec 207s dont come with all the airbags the higher spec cars do, Also base spec doenst have aircon as standard.
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What about the Nissan Note - cheap finance at the moment (not 0% though) - free reversing sensors as well.
I reckon you could do a deal with Nissan dealer as well to get more money off.
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PS - Air Con on the SE that starts at £11K
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Nicole comment of the day
"Note? it looks like a van."
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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She does have a point.
I guessed it was a long shot after I posted because I think it also looks a bit Jazzy - Honda Jazzy that is and you did say she does not like the Jazz.
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OMG -
Panic in Schloss TVM. Someone left Nicoles cage open, she has escaped and been to the local Peugeot dealer on her own. She has now driven and likes the 207 as much as the clio and the salesman has filled her pretty little head with tales of " we can match any deal on a monthly basis"
I know nothing about the Pug,
HELP!
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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If I know anything about the fairer sex, it's that once their mind is made up, there's little in the way or reasoning and rationality that will change it-
would just wonder what they mean by "match any deal month by month"? Maybe same repayments, but same period / deposit / endpayment?
You might have to let this one go, had the worst row imaginable with SWMBO obeyed over white or silver wheels and white or black roof on a MINI. Never did settle it and went a third way for another colour altogether.
I think you may need some help from Polo(Golf)Girl who understands these pretty, irrational things better {runs}
Lee -- You know, it\'s not like changing toothpaste
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I hope the Pug dealer is pretty nearby, She will be on first name terms with the service department if she buys a 207.
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"would just wonder what they mean by "match any deal month by month"? Maybe same repayments, but same period / deposit / endpayment?"
Yes indeedy, it sounds like a part finance plan, ie money up front, 36 x ££££ and ££££ to keep the car or use to buy another. What I want to know is where does the equity to put down on another car come from if you have to pay ££££ to keep the current one.
I think the Renault 0% finance may make the pug too pricey in comparison. Just readthe HJ road test on the pug, seems to like it. The car in question would be the 1.4 S with aircon. Question is 8 valve or 16 valve - which is better.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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1360cc 8 valve 75 BHP TU3 lump is well proven over the years but will struggle to pull the 207s hefty body along.
The new 1360cc 16 valve ET3 lump is according to a mate who is a Peugeot technician described as the biggest pile of ( word I cannot use on this forum ) that Peugeot have produced in years.
Basically its a TU3 bottom end with a new fancy 16 valve VVT head stuck on it & pumps out 90 BHP, That's before it blows the head gasket ( which Peugeot already know about ) but that would just get fixed under warranty.
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If all else fails you can appeal to her ethical side viz a viz the Coventry closure....
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Equity???
You arent supposed to have any equity - just turn the car back to the dealer and start a new deal - they will be perfectly happy with you paying them £200 or so a month for ever and giving you a new car every 3 years.
Of course over 30 years or so you will have paid them £72,000 and you still wont actually own a car!
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After the horror stories of problems with early 307s I'd avoid the 207 for at least three years. Let early adopters suffer the car bursting in to flames for no reason!
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The 207 was an OK car. It seemed very soul-less when I test-drove one, lacking in character compared to the FIAT Grande Punto, which was oozing with charisma in my opinion. That said, the steering was better in the 207...
Something to note with the French offerings:
Clio: Expression trim is necessary for the "good" interior trim, otherwise the colours and materials feel a lot cheaper.
207: I suspect the Sport and GT fronted-versions will hold their value better and something to note if she intends to use the back-seats even semi-regularly will be to upgrade to a version with the sports-front-seats, otherwise the bulky S-one's eat into already snug rear legroom - at least when compared to Clio and Grande Punto. Also the 8v 1.4 engine was gutless in a 206 I drove once, in a 207 I dare not think how slow it must feel.
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What about the Clio 1.5 DCi (86BHP) instead of a 1.4. Its fast, but it's secret weapon is that it falls into band B tax bracket unlike the higher AND lower powered deisels. So you get the same car, with a really good engine and it only costs you £50 a year to tax!
By the way, we just drove from Scotland to Lincolnshire in one and it was comfy as a sofa! We're currently toying with the idea of getting a second one!
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Nothing wrong with my 1.4 8 valve 206, Nippy & does 3 figure speeds easily while it sips fuel & costs £100 a year in tax thanks to low emmisions.
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End of line MkII Clio or perhaps Mk I Yaris?
Wouldn't touch a Peugeot.
Jazz?
Unlike many hatches the new Clio actually looks best as a 5 door, the new Yaris is fine, the face lift Fiesta is very nice, great engines, petrol or diesel and really fun to drive.
Disagree with Bill Payer, we have a 1.6 RXE Clio and the big engine in smaller car works, not exactly a rocket ship with the 'only' 90bhp 8v motor though very torquey, more flexible than the 1.6 16v and quite fun to drive even five up. Has averaged 39mpg over 37000 miles.
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Just give her your cheque book and let her buy what she wants. Women know best - at least if you want a quiet life.
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What exactly does Nicole (Mrs TVM) transport that requires such a large boot? Most people drive around with nothing much in a boot except supermarket shopping which surely will fit in any of the suggested vehicles.
Given that you don't want to spend all the time in a service department dealing with French electrics and cheap plastic trim falling off can you not steer her towards a better built car than a Pug or a renault eg the Swift option which also will mean she's being just a bit original...not everyone at the sunbed/nailbar centre will have one unlike a Mini or clio......
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Clio3 is a very well built car. At least the 'Expression' model I looked at was. Very close to VW cabin quality IMO, certainly a big improvement on the MK2.
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If you mean the one that has just been replaced then I totally agree, very solid little cars.
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Unfourtunately its not the job when she was a Sales rep for cadbury and had several zillion cream eggs in the car.
Post her degree, she is taking up a post as the senior community childrens nurse for NW surrey, and will be doing approx 1000 miles a month with a shed load of medical type stuff. So it all needs to be out of sight.
Hence the requiement.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Has she had a look at a Modus- got the sliding rear seat so could be altered for work / pleasure.
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I had a Modus for a day while my lagoona (sniffle) was being serviced.
Nicole thought it was possibly the worse car she had ever driven, ugly, lifeless, characterless, and utterly soul destroying. (did I mention ugly?)
I thought she was being rather too kind about it myself.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Oops- sorry about that then! Did wonder why hadn't come up.
One thing with Seat- have seen a fair bit of speculation about their future recently. Audi have been strongly denying company will be for sale- but comes up every couple of months or so. Have heard the new look has not gone down at all well and sales are down.
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I am not having one, its pooey" Refused to sit in it
I now have coffee in the internals of my keyboard!!
Absolutely priceless.
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Also the 8v 1.4 engine was gutless in a 206 I drove once, in a 207 I dare not think how slow it must feel.
I find that surprising, as the same engine in a ZX gave good performance. It was good for over 100 mph, 40 mpg, would cruise all day at 80 mph and, really, what more do you expect of a 1.4 petrol engine.
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Same TU3 engine in my 206 will do 114mph without bother once it gets going, Easily get 40 mpg + too
Also managed that in a C3 loan car with the same TU3 design of engine.
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New 207 is to big & heavy for the weedy engines that pull it along, The gearchange is typical Pug, RUBBISH
I am quite surprised by that statement, as all of the Peugeots that I have driven had wonderful gearchanges (309s, 405 and 505).
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I had a ZX with that engine. It was noisy, but didn't feel as slow as the 206 I tried with the same engine. I assumed that gearing/weight was different.
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What about a RenaultSport Clio 197 2.0 16V.
Then you can borrow it :-)
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Oh Dont
I sat in this in the showroom. Its stunning.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Over the years & the many Peugeot & Citroen cars ive owned & driven I can safely say that a good gearchange ISNT yet available on a PSA car.
Long & clunky is the PSA gearchange way.
Now Ford & Vauxhall do get the gearchange action right.
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My OH had a Peugeot 306 for a couple of years and travelled from Cumbria to Aberdeen in it every weekend for two years and it never missed a beat. He previously had a Golf which travelled from Cumbria to High Wycombe every weekend for over 3 years which did another perfect job. The Peugeot was a diesel and the Golf wasn't. The Golf had less toys but felt more solid. What would she trust?
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Over the years & the many Peugeot & Citroen cars ive owned & driven I can safely say that a good gearchange ISNT yet available on a PSA car. Long & clunky is the PSA gearchange way. Now Ford & Vauxhall do get the gearchange action right.
Having had two 309s, a ZX and a Xantia, the only one I wasn't keen on was the ZX gearchange, which was a bit clunky and a bit long, but never unpleasant to use . The 309s were lovely and smooth, although the gates were a bit close, and the Xantia was simply wonderful, as good as anything I have driven. Long and clunky they were not.
I also took a test drive in a 405 and 505 once upon a time and the gearchange in those were good too, the 505 being particularly nice.
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I've yet to drive a French car (only driven PSA cars and just one Renault Megane I) where the gearchange feels as precise and slick as that on a Focus or Mondeo. That said, my Dad absolutely detests the gearchange in my Focus, so it's as with everything else: a matter of personal taste.
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My old 306's gearchange was horribly notchy and clunky, particularly on cold oil. My colleague had an identical car with similar mileage that was lovely though. A bit odd really.
I found the Focus gearbox a delight. Short-ish throw with a real "mechanical" feel to it and virtually no freeplay in the linkage. Our Fiesta's is the same, but spoiled slightly by a fairly long lever.
The Mondeo's is short throw and fairly slick,and has a lovely stubby little gearlever, but there's a bit of play in it, and the gate can feel a little vague at times. A new linkage would probably fix it, but what's the point? It works.
Cheers
DP
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Hi All,
Had a test drive in the new Mitsubishi Colt last week. Found it amazingly spacious for its size and the engine pretty good. However, the ride was fidgety and when I got up to 80mph, and then braked hard, the car wavered around and didn't feel too safe.
I then went to the Nissan Note which, with the 1.6l engine, was very nice to drive and with a comfortable ride. The cabin was rather narrow and the drivers seat didn't have height adjustment, only cushion tilt.
After that, I found the Fiat Grande Punto which was very nice to drive with the 1.4l engine. The worst thing about it was a badly placed clutch footrest. Neither I or my friend liked it and I in particular just couldn't get comfortable. There also seems to be problems with steering racks and poorly fitting doors so this car needs time to have its problems sorted out.
Hope this is interesting.
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Hi All, The cabin was rather narrow and the drivers seat didn't have height adjustment, only cushion tilt. After that, I found the Fiat Grande Punto which was very nice to drive with the 1.4l engine. The worst thing about it was a badly placed clutch footrest. Neither I or my friend liked it and I in particular just couldn't get comfortable. There also seems to be problems with steering racks
Hope this is interesting.
Are you sure it wasn't a BMW series 1 that you were driving?
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Ignore the oldgit Bumbler,
Thats valuable input - thanks
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Ignore the oldgit Bumbler, Thats valuable input - thanks ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Should not that be, "ignore the oldgit, Bumbler". Otherwise it appears that I'm an oldgit as well as a bumbler (without the insertion of a comma).
Anyway, why should my well intentioned comment be treated thus as I was merely suggesting that some of the findings were similar to what I'd found in the car mentioned
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Actualy, bumbling old git turned out rather accurately ;) (said with a grin)
Anyway, which comment(s) applied to the BMW in question? ( a car it seems with which i share your dislike)
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Actualy, bumbling old git turned out rather accurately ;) (said with a grin) Anyway, which comment(s) applied to the BMW in question? ( a car it seems with which i share your dislike) ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
A brief fleeting comment "The cabin was rather narrow and the drivers seat didn't have height adjustment, only cushion tilt" . Although the Beemer does have seat height adjustment, it comprises that awful levitation action where you have to levitate yourself at the same time as operating said lever in order for the seat to rise. Quite why they keep this system is beyond me. In addition there is no room around the pedals and the whole car is very cramped both front and rear with the latter having poor access.
Apart from all that, the car's looks are pretty horrendous (excuse the Oxymoron).
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Ok right,
well I am going with Nicole to the Pug dealer this evening (as it happens there is a tapas bar over the road - Thats handy!) to cast my eye over the 207 and to see what deals the salesman can come up with, but i think its going to be the Clio.
So it boils down to money. Here is my figures.
Assumptions
Old clio trade in £1.5k
Sell old clio privately £2.0k
Cost of finance - pers loan at 6.4%apr / 48 months
New Car = Clio 1.4, 3 door expression, metalic paint, List price OTR £10470
Therefore worse possible deal*, cost to change £10,069 / £209.77 month.
* No list price discount, book price trade in, finance balance @6.4% apr 48 months
The deals
Internet brokers, uk sourced cars - The best possible I can get here is:
Discount price OTR, £8629 - sell old car £2k = Balance £6629 + finance £950
Cost to change = £7,579 / £158 month.
Local Renault dealer.
A casual enquiry after the test drive, easily got this deal.
Discount price £10,072 OTR - trade in £1.5k = balance £8572 + 0% finance (48 months)
Cost to change £8572 / £178 month.
I intend to go for this deal at the dealer. That is walk in with old car and docs, bank details, and a "we will sign
right here right now where's the pen" promise.
Discount price £10,072 OTR - trade in £2k = balance £8072 + 0% finance
Cost to change £8072 / £168 month.
I prefer to go with a dealer, but if they cant match that its the broker route.
Opinions? thoughts?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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If you do go for the Clio remember to send off the extra £50 so that you 'free' breakdown cover with the AA is extended to cover punctures, locking keys in car, using incorrect fuel, etc.
www.renault.co.uk/NonWarrantyHome.aspx
It's pretty penny-pinching of Renault that this cover doesn't come as standard in my opinion.
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Ok right, well I am going with Nicole to the Pug dealer this evening (as it happens there is a tapas bar over the road - Thats handy!) to cast my eye over the 207 and to see what deals the salesman can come up with, but i think its going to be the Clio. So it boils down to money. Here is my figures. Assumptions Old clio trade in £1.5k Sell old clio privately £2.0k Cost of finance - pers loan at 6.4%apr / 48 months New Car = Clio 1.4, 3 door expression, metalic paint, List price OTR £10470 Therefore worse possible deal*, cost to change £10,069 / £209.77 month. * No list price discount, book price trade in, finance balance @6.4% apr 48 months The deals Internet brokers, uk sourced cars - The best possible I can get here is: Discount price OTR, £8629 - sell old car £2k = Balance £6629 + finance £950 Cost to change = £7,579 / £158 month. Local Renault dealer. A casual enquiry after the test drive, easily got this deal. Discount price £10,072 OTR - trade in £1.5k = balance £8572 + 0% finance (48 months) Cost to change £8572 / £178 month. I intend to go for this deal at the dealer. That is walk in with old car and docs, bank details, and a "we will sign right here right now where's the pen" promise. Discount price £10,072 OTR - trade in £2k = balance £8072 + 0% finance Cost to change £8072 / £168 month. I prefer to go with a dealer, but if they cant match that its the broker route. Opinions? thoughts? ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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drbe - looks like you have missed this notice at the top of the page:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=42...2
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Ok right, well I am going with Nicole to the Pug dealer this evening (as it happens there is a tapas bar over the road - Thats handy!) to cast my eye over the 207 >> ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Sorry, Papa, my last was a mishtake.
What I had INTENDED to say was enjoy your tapas - that would be the tapas bar by the traffic lights at The Halfway?
Didn't it have a fire on the opening night? Let us hope history doesn't repeat its self!
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... by the traffic lights at The Halfway? Didn't it have a fire on the opening night? ..
and which (along with the rest of the halfway) was flooded two weeks ago when walton/weybridge had that once in hundred years type massive thunderstorm.
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Yes I was driving back from the midlands that afternoon, That was a longish old journey i can tell you.
I assume then, not to take a slightly musty smelling 207 from stock thats going cheap?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Dat be the one, under the new flats.. You know what Pug dealer I am visiting then
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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the "hersham hardware" place next door to the pug dealer was definitely flooded - photo was in surey herald. perhaps the pug dealership was too. but then the fire station is just opposite so maybe they bailed them out first. see:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/5223...m
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So to The pug dealer.
The 207 3 door looks better in the flesh close up than its pictures would indicate. The clutch has a very short, overlight action with not much feel in the bite. Little room in the footwell for such a big car, the gearbox is rubbery, sloppy and has a long throw. There are visibility problems to the rear, and you cant see the swooped down front.
The glovebox is laughable.
Its the Clio then.
So to the Tapas bar at the Halfway. Its was as near empty as makes no difference and early.
Table for two?
Waiter looks around empty resturant, "Have you booked"?
Incredulous look "No? do I have to?
Waiter spend two minutes, leafing through some papers, loooking around the large empty resturant, checking watch several times. Much sighing and sucking through teeth.
"Poke your gambas and chorrizo where the costa del sol dont shine" says TVM flouncing out in a hissy fit, trailing a bemused Nicole in his wake.
A good Tapas bar in Woking tho.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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You can get a top of the range Initiale 106 DCi 5dr on 0%, put £3000 down and £257 p/m 48 months, no final payment.
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Or a Privilege 111 VVT 5dr on 0%, put £2500 down and £208 p/m 48 months, no final payment.
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Or an Expression 1.4 98 3dr on 0%, put £2000 down and £168 p/m 48 months, no final payment.
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That makes the car £15336. Daft money for a Clio no matter how good it is.
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So thats 15 grand for a clio then? Hmmm
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Or its 250 a month for a fully loaded, fun to drive, pretty nippy, 60mpg car that is actually about the size of a MkI Focus.
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You can get a 197 for that money.
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Right well we make appointment to see dealer today. 11:00am, arrive at 10:55
Bad start, still not been seen by the salesman at 11:30 - so TVM kicks up a fuss and gets into the sales manager.
The best he could do was
Discount price £10,072 OTR - trade in £1.5k = balance £8572 + 0% finance
Cost to change £8572 / £178 month.
I refused to move from a cost to change of £8072 so gathered up my pen and nicole and we showed the dealer our bums as we walked out.
So its private sale, finance and internet brokers route.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I presume the dealer is busy - or at least not desperate for business - right now, in the run-up to the new 56 registration-plate release.
Surely he'd be a bit more pliable and eager to make a sale if you waited until November? Not many people buy cars in the run-up to Christmas! Can Nicole be patient?!
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Indeed that is an option, and under consideration.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Indeed that is an option, and under consideration.
And if she can wait that long for aircon then surely she can wait until next spring and 07 plates, after all your current Clio will have lost little value in that time and you cash could make 5% in the bank.
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Of course, the salesman might also be playing chicken with you too. He'll wait to see if you go crawling back on Weds/Thurs to accept the deal. If you don't, he may well call you at the end of next week with a marginally increased offer!
Furthermore, after the Bank Holiday weekend next week, he'll look at his sales figures for the month and may also wheel and deal more freely "for a quick sale".
It also pays to get a comparative quote from a different dealer sometimes...
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While you are still at the stage of driving round looking for a replacement you could also put an A4 advert in the back window of the existing car. You might score a private sale and then be in the position of turning up at the dealers without a trade in. That could be worth a few quid on the deal for you. The beauty of the back window ad is that it is no trouble and no cost. If it works great. If it doesn't you haven't lost anything. On the down side it might mean a few weeks without a car while waiting for the new one to be delivered. There are pros and cons with everything.
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Any update TVM - is Nicole driving about in a shiny new something or other ?
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Nope. Not since the trip to the Renault dealer, pen in hand did not go to my liking.
Currently waiting till the september reg change rush is over.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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did you look at the Mazda2?
Nice smallish car, 4* Ncap, comes with aircon stereo, CD etc
comfortable, spacious ... and no I don't work for them, just this is the car my wife drives and she likes it!
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I would second the Mazda suggestion. I bought a 323 in 1999 and we still have it. We had one tiny problem when we got it. The courtesy light in the boot wouldn't work. The dealer fixed it under warranty and it has been perfect since. Not very good - perfect. If the 2 is anywhere near as good you will have a very good car indeed.
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Something tells me she's not a Mazda2 lady.
"Fiesta - Its a ford"
Although I do understand completely where she's coming from!
;)
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Ford and Mazda are linked ... the Fiesta and Mazda2 and Fusion are all built in the same factory in Valencia.
They share the same 1.4 engine, and probably the many other parts too.
Nonetheless, there is something about the Mazda name that gave a greater confidence than buying a Ford, or perhaps it was the the dealership that instilled more confidence. Illogical perhaps, but that's life.
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