My son just bought a diesel car, went out to the pub with him today and coming out of it was quite a few people sat on the terrasse.
Thought nothing of it but as we were about to start the engine, quite a number of gents were staring at the car, so there we go start the engine and the grin on their faces really annoyed me as clearly it wasn't a V6 noise but one of a diesel. He has told me that this can happen every so often..
Whats the problem with diesels?? It seems like its exactly the same as badge snobbery!
Car in question is a mk3 golf TDI
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Don't worry about it, every 5 times they fill up their cars your son will only fill his 3 times. If they'd done that to me I'd have floored it and given them some soot to taste!
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2 Dirty VW diesels and a Honda with an 18 inch blade
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When the apocalypse comes and our cars are running on old chip fat we'll see who's laughing then.
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not you as after the apocalypse your old golf wont start whereas my old viva with points will be on the button and running on meths and elderberry wine ;)
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A Viva?! Which one? My Dad had an HC.
JH
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i havent got one but still hanker a dream to buy a 1600 slant gt with the matt black bonnet (hb model by the way)
sorry but i hated hc vivas :(
:)
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When the apocalypse comes and our cars are running on old chip fat we'll see who's laughing then.
As long as they don't use EMP weapons! (Well, it would be me out for the count anyway!)
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"so there we go start the engine and the grin on their faces really annoyed me as clearly it wasn't a V6 noise but one of a diesel"
And just how did you establish that it was the sound of a diesel that provoked these looks?
Are you sure your flies were done up?
Was your wife with you - was her dress tucked in her knickers?
Were they all driving V6s?
How many of them had arrived in Kia Prides?
Was it the diesel or the car you were driving?
Is the car bright pink?
Were you in a Streetka ?
had someone stuck "Just married " sign on the back?
Have you got a funny nose?
Were you wearing shorts?
Were you wearing sandals with long black socks?
Was your beer belly hanging over the top of your shorts?
Was your thong visible?
Are you a little oversensitive?
had one of the blokes just told the others a joke?
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Phil
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Were you wearing shorts?
Were you wearing sandals with long black socks?
interestingly these are my pet hates with customers (male) :(
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May be they were covering for their own inadequacies
I was once bullied 9at sunday school) since my parents bought an old Morris Minor (848cc). Comments like - old museum piece, ancient heap etc. My dad politely reminded me that the bullies did not even have a car and that we chose to have this car instead of importing a Mercedes 220D that we had bought before emigrating.
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Lol no, not one of these applies.
It was clearly the car, I don't think i am that interesting to watch!
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Car snobbery is complete pants IMHO.
I just don't get it. People pulled my leg when I had a Rover 75 (not because it was a diesel, but because it was a Rover) & that was a damned good car.
I think that I read that the UK is nearly onto 50% of all new cars being diesel ----- the laughing boys will be well stuffed by then.
MTC
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>>I think that I read that the UK is nearly onto 50% of all new cars being diesel ----- the laughing boys will be well stuffed by then.
I like diesels - you can entirely justify buying one on performance and driving enjoyment vs petrol these days but I wonder - how many as a percentage of these new technology diesels have been bought by private people on "feel good at the pump" grounds yet really there is a very slim if not a negative cost advantage at all?
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My diesel car cost the same as the larger engined petrol equivelent version. As well as being 50% more economic than the petrol flavoured one, it also has much BETTER performance.
For me it was Win-Win
MTC
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Don't worry about it, every 5 times they fill up their cars your son will only fill his 3 times. If they'd
I personally think that the sound of a modern diesel is a very purposefull and satisfying sound, and we forgot to mention the overtaking advantages on A roads that equivalent CC deisels give over petrols.
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best of all you cant beat the smell of unburnt diesel on the overun :(
or diesel on your hands
or diesel on the mats from the forecourt yard
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best of all you cant beat the smell of unburnt diesel on the overun :(
You must have a really long nose or some routing issues with your cars exhuast pipe. ;o)
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I personally think that the sound of a modern diesel is a very purposefull and satisfying sound,
Yes, if it has five or more cylinders; my brother's XC90 D5 sounds great as did a VW Caravelle "MPV" with five cylinder diesel engine that I hired, and does a friend's six cylinder E320 CDI. All are smoothly mechanically "busy" and "urgent", with a nice cultured growl under load.
No, if it has four or less; it's just a drone.
With the exception of stratospheric RPM machines such as sports bikes and to some degree the ilk of an S2000, the same applies to petrol engines in my book. This is one of the reasons I never buy cars with less than five cylinders; how the engine sounds is of great importance when lived with over time, and my tuned V70 2.4T has that "Quattroesque" (Big Q on purpose) growl in spades.
>and we forgot to mention the overtaking advantages on A roads that equivalent CC diesels give over petrols.
I think you've conveniently forgotten a small detail; a turbocharger.
My father's S80 2.4 170hp is pretty humdrum for overtaking with, bro's previous car (V70 D5) was swift, and my turbocharged (and then standard tune) turbocharged V70 2.4T was more so. All have the same size engine to within a few CCs. Yes, the D5 wins hands down on outright economy and as an economy:performance compromise, but it doesn't win on performance alone if compared like for like.
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Agree with you 100% SjB
I just swapped my 5-cylinder Merc 270 for a 6-pot E320. Both have a lovely sound, although I think I just prefer a 5-cylinder warble.
VAG 4-cylinder TDIs are however not the smoothest on the block!
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> Agree with you 100% SjB
Even my missus comments favourably in the same vein; much though she likes the sharp handling and limo ride of her 1.8 petrol 306, she wishes it had the sonorous nature of a five pot engine.
To add to my earlier comment before someone else does; my comments apply but in a different way to flat four engines too. Subaru Imprezzas - for all their undoubted qualities - simply sound like a spark plug is missing with their off beat chuff-chuff-chuff.
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To badly paraphrase Black Adder; a small capacity diesel engine without forced induction has as much get up and go as an asthmatic ant with some heavy shopping! ;-)
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...and making one in this day and age is like fitting wheels to a tomato - time consuming and completely unnecessary. ;o)
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sounds like making lurrrrrve to a beautiful woman only to find she is a blow up doll ,methinks :)
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People who sneer at other people's cars, unless they are very expensive and very naff, are basically ignorant ten-year-old boys.
'Mista, your car's carp.'
'Know a bit about cars do you?'
Of course they don't. Don't give it a second thought. In fact don't even notice.
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Some famous French bird said, "If they don't have bread let them eat soot"
If they mock, give it to them, they don't like it up em ;-)
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2 Dirty VW diesels and a Honda with an 18 inch blade
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Reasons why I don't like them :
They Stink.
They give out loads of horrible pollutants that are bad for our health.
They Stink.
They don't sound very nice (I could put up with that if it was a good engine, but it certainly aint good).
I personally would never want to expose anybody to the gasses that come out of a Diesel. If I needed a big car then I would probably consider a Diesel, but I certainly wouldn't be proud of it. The torque etc. is nice, but not no excuse for the pollution!
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Reasons why I don't like them :
They give out loads of horrible pollutants that are bad for our health.
Petrols chuck out just as much pollutant and probably more CO2, yes diesels can be smokey, but this is mainly soot which is a bit dirty but fairly harmless.
The sound is only evident at tickover realy.
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IMO diesels are ok if you can cover the necesary mileage to offset the initial cost.
Also whilst they are getting better there is no doubt there are more smelly, noisy and carcenegenic (speeling not my strong point - get it ?).
Clearly for you to notice and feel strongly enough to discuss it then maybe you should have the courage of your convictions not to worry about it - or are you a little insecure about it ?
It seems there is alot of insecurity coming out among the diesel owners here justifying their choice - calm down people - its only a car !
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type 's': >>Also whilst they are getting better there is no doubt there are more smelly, noisy and carcenegenic (speeling not my strong point - get it ?).
Comparing an arbitrary couple of vehicles (Honda CRV 2.0 petrol v. 2.2. diesel, and New Focus 1.6 petrol v. 1.8 diesel) the petrol models produce more CO2 , CO and HC, and the diesels more NOx and of course particulates. All these cars were Euro IV compliant (obligatory on new cars from 1.1.07)
Quoting from the VCA website -
- CO2 is the most important greenhouse gas;
- CO reduces the bloods oxygen carrying capacity which can reduce availability of oxygen to key organs.
- some HCs are carcinogenic;
- NOx can have adverse effects on health, particularly among people with respiratory illness. NOx also contributes to smog formation, acid rain and can damage vegetation;
- particulates are associated with a range of respiratory and cardiovascular disorders and asthma.
I don't know which are the most carcinogenic, petrol-car-emitted HCs or diesel ones - I'm not sure whether petrol still contains benzene, which is a known carcinogen. Some sources suggest that diesel particulates can be carcinogenic although the VCA info doesn't mention it.
Noise-wise there's not much in it with these cars - the Foci figures are identical, and the CRV diesel is slighly noisier than the petrol (<1dB). The noise measurements are carried out at full throttle acceleration from 50kph.
A lot of the internet sources date back to the 1990's, since when emissions standards and fuel specifications have changed so I have avoided quoting those.
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Reasons why I don't like them : They Stink......
They stink...Yup
They're noisy...Yup
Then the next bit, you would'nt expose anyone to the diesel gasses.......Unless you needed a big car, maybe.
Take a bath in petrol and report back ;-)
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2 Dirty VW diesels and a Honda with an 18 inch blade
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They stink - yours might, mine certainly doesn't
Lots of horrible pollutants - my car has a brand spanking new particulate filter that catches them.
They don't sound very nice - my V6 diesel sounds splendid.
It IS a big car and jolly nice as well.
I love driving & owning it.
MTC
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>>They don't sound very nice - my V6 diesel sounds splendid.
But wan't that my point MTC?
Diesel or petrol with five cylinders or more usually sound pretty good. Diesel or petrol with four cylinders - high RPM motors apart - usually just go "boom".
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>>They don't sound very nice - my V6 diesel sounds splendid. But wan't that my point MTC?
But it was P3t3r's !!
MTC
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I am on my second diesel and I wish I had gone to diesel years ago. Their is no notable lack of overtaking accelleration and I get 45ish fron a 2.2 engine. It passes the emission test yearly and I personally like the sound of a diesel engine. I think diesel engines are more robust and will in the end save me cash not turing it in for a new one regularly.
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Murphy and Barney
You won't convert the Vtec mob, lets keep it as our little secret ;-)
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2 Dirty VW diesels and a Honda with an 18 inch blade
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Vtec mob ? is that like HJ backroom shorthand for people with a petrol addiction.
MTC
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I have driven diesel for several years now.
I like 'em and I couldn't care less what anybody else thinks.
So there!
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Gents - I have to agree with you - you will never convert us vtec mob. Give me refinement any day over the tractor boys and their black smoke and clattery engines - especially the VAG TDI's. (Which are soon to be outlawed in North America because there are so dirty).
As the governement hse exec says: "Diesel engine exhaust emissions have the potential to cause a range of health problems."
Now I am not saying that breathing in petrol exhaust fumes is very pleasant or good for you but at least it is not cancer causing or irritable to the resparitory tracts. People go on about the levels of CO2 becuase of taxation mainly - but what about all the extra NOX - now that is nasty stuff.
Now the torque figures speak for themselves on paper but the 525d I was following today tried damned hard to leave me for dead when a space emerged on the outside lane but vtec man just kept up with him (even kept it in 6th).
It is just a shame I could not admire his car with all the black smoke between us.
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As the governement hse exec says: "Diesel engine exhaust emissions have the potential to cause a range of health problems."
er, so does a coconut.
Brainwashed.
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Joking aside now (the banter is always good on this site - intelligent like minded people and all that) I have noticed that the cuurent crop of engine devlopments does seem to be on petrol and ethanol variants - VAG for instance have invested heavily in FSI and TSI at the expense of TDI (other than in racing format of a current concept with the R10). Is a pattern forming or is it a question of allocating engineering resource and the next wave of TDI's will come. I cannot see them not devloping TDI in the short term but it will be interesting to see the medium and longer term strategy of engine makers.
Hybrids for instance seem to be the main focus of many companies. The mpg is not as good as the public and press would like or the makers claim but overall emmisions are down (not just counting CO2 in isolation that is)
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Now I am not saying that breathing in petrol exhaust fumes is very pleasant or good for you but at least it is not cancer causing
Benzene doesn't exist on your planet then by the sound of it.
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"No, if it has four or less; it's just a drone."
Agree entirely with SjB - and it's even worse if it's a 4-cylinder diesel automatic, like my Mercedes B200 CDI.
The previous Audi (V6 TDI) made a lovely noise, and not much of it - the Golf TDI estate before that
was perfectly OK unless the weather was very cold.
The B-class is my come-uppance for calling Mercs German taxis all these years - this one sounds like a London taxi. A bit like an inexperienced or very elderly driver slipping the clutch.
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>>er, so does a coconut.
Brainwashed.<<
You get alot of coconuts bouncing down your street do you ?
I call it education not brainwashing.
Try and come back with a sensible argument - its no fun fighting an unarmed man remember.
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>>Benzene doesn't exist on your planet then by the sound of it.<<
Actually it does with the diesel powered coconuts (see ashok leyland above).
Its a question of how much gets released to atmosphere and what gets burnt in the combustion process.
As you know Benzene is an aromatic hydrocarbon that occurs naturally in crude oil and hence in the petrol derived from it. The difference between this and the carcenegnics in diesel is huge - for instance even at some busy roadside locations, for example Marylebone Road in London, 2002 benzene levels were only about 0.7 ppb. (UKPIA study - UK Petrolem Industry)
The UKPIA also goes onto say that:-
"Overall 80% of exhaust particulates are from diesel engines." - NOW THATS THE BIG DIFFERENCE and hence my dislike of diesels. Remeber this is what the UK Petroleum Industry are saying - not some HSE geek.
Particluate size is also of importance and the particulate size in diesel fumes is much greater.
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I don't think there is any argument that diesels, not petrols, are the particulate producers, though the levels are significantly lower with Euro IV. Nevertheless petrols appear to produce more HC (cited as including carcinogens) than diesel - neither is healthy.
C02 may not be poisonous but it is arguably the biggest problem - particulates and HCs will knock a few people off, but climate change is another matter, unless you're George W Bush.
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Given that your pollution concerns with diesels revolve around the soot & particle emissions - does the particulate filter fitted as standard to my car not go some way to allaying your fears ?
MTC
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