Hi,
My niece has a 'W' reg Citroen Saxo 1.2 that the heater blower and the heated rear window are not working. I have tried all the fuses and I suspect that relays are to blame. I checked both the handbook and the Haynes manual which says that if it clicks - it works. That does not help identify which one has failed if it does not click. It does not give you a diagram to identify which relay is which. Anyone have a clue as to the problem and/or how to identify the offending relays. The ignition key has been causing a few problems with sticking but I think this is unrelated.
Any advice and guidance is, as always much appreciated
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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 31/12/2007 at 00:05
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they have a few fuses under the bonnet have you checked them as well?
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ive just posted on another forum that these switches in the ignition never go faulty(oops)well it may be your problem as the engine has to be actually running for the fan to work ,so may be worth checking there first?
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Robin
As oldman says, there is an interlock relay that needs the alternator to be charging to feed the HRW and heater blower fuses.
Despite there being that relay; all the power is still transmitted through ignition switch circuit code KK2. [Why? Because it's a Citroen!]
The ignition switches often fail under that high load and that is likely to be your problem. Drop the column shroud and bridge the brown two-pin connector on the ignition switch.
If that fixes it [engine running] then either have a new lock assy built to your existing key number: [possible, but takes days] or better still fit a relay switched by the other ignition circuit to bridge the KK2 plug.
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for the advice - having found the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual it is strange to see a feed to the relay from the alternator. I can't see a plausible reason why this is - but must conclude it is a remnant from earlier Citroen designs which were an absolute nightmare to work on. I've yet to take the column cowl off and have a look. When you say bridge the brown two pin connector, I assume you mean link the wires at that plug. Does it have to be removed or unplugged from the switch or bridge it as connected. If its bridged and the heater motor bursts into life this would confirm the switch as being at fault?? The relay has been changed but made no difference so its likely to be the switch.
You mentioned fitting another relay to overcome this but how would I go about doing this. I assume the lock and switch are a complete assembly and its not possible to remove/ replace the electrical side of it as has been done in the past like Rovers ehich are held in place by a small screw. The local Citroen agent could not offer the electrical switch separately.
Thanks
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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
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if you take the cowling down there are 3 mutiplugs as said one of these will be the link to the fan (i cant remember which one)but it sounds plausible that the fan will spin once the engine is running.
Personally i would source a s/h ignition switch/housing it was said that the switch can come out on my the other forum but i couldnt work out how this was done and if the dealer doesnt list it then thats why.
Any breaker should have an ax or saxo in stock with the ignition barrel removed and i would just swap this yours over to the new one and fit that to your car(hope that makes sense?)
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Have the switch operate a relay which then operates the heater,thus the switch is only carrying a small load instead of one that will damage it.
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Robin
The alternator-to-relay link was probably shoe-horned in on Saxo's to overcome a problem on the AX when you could inadvertantly leave the HRW relay energized with the ignition off and slowly flatten the battery. The lock and switch do indeed come as one piece and they're mounted inside a hollow steel tube with three sets of flyleads emerging from a small gap.
Unplug the brown two-wire connector of the ign switch's three plugs; then simply join both wires [of the loom-side half] with a suitably-sized link and run the engine to see if that makes a difference. If it does, that particular ignition circuit in the switch is U/S.
Be cautious of second-hand Saxo lock/switch assys. One, they're probably worse than yours and two, you could be walking into the chipped-key/ECU re-coding nightmare. [New ones, built-to-your-number, are only around £47, so it's not worth the grief of having two different keys.]
To fit a relay: brown plug's live feed to relay terminal 30; brown plug's heater/HRW feed to 87; earth the 85 terminal; link 86 into the other ignition switch circuit's live output wire. Insulate 87a [if fitted] and secure the relay to the loom with a cable-tie - job done.
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well said screwloose i was trying to say if it was the electrical bit that failed then swap his ignition barrel bit to a s/h housing,i have now found that the electrical bit does come out of the housing but are indeed not sold seperate by the dealer ,therefore if doing what we said cures the problem and the whole housing is only £47 then i totaly agree buy a new one.
Good reason with regards the ax as well.
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your advice and guidance. I now have a lot more to go on and i understand the fitting of the relay. I am informed by my niece that it does have chip/ecu built in so am trying to do an effective repair as economically as possible. Interesting to note that the electrical part of the lock is removable. I do have a special industrial electrical contact cleaner spray which i might try to get into the switch if its proved faulty.
One other question - is the lock easily removed from the column or does it have shear bolts to stop theft. I know some manufacturers have given up on this option (although I removed thousands with a drill and easy-out when working for rover).
Again many thanks to all of you for your assistance.
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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
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they do come off ive three at work off cars ive scrapped i believe they are shear bolts but a hammer and punch wont take long ,get new shear bolts from your dealer i"m sure they wont be dear,as regards spray cleaner it makes a lot of modern plastics turn to pulp but ive found that brake cleaner makes a good substitute for such jobs (so far).
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Hi Oldman,
Thanks for the info and advice. Interesting to read about the brake cleaner - I've got tons of aerosols of that. I might give it a try first as its the easiest option.
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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
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Hi Oldman,
Just a couple of quick questions - is it possible to remove the electrical part of the switch leaving the lock assembly still bolted to the column?? How is it held into the lock assembly??
Thanks
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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
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The steering lock & switch/ wiring harness & multiplugs is a barrel that slides out of the top steering column housing .It is locked in position by a spring loaded detent bar that can be depressed when the key is turned to the correct position.There is usually also a small screw to the rear of the housing ;often a torx drive head.The switch is riveted to the lock barrel.
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youve got me now elekie&a/c doctor because i originally said they dont come out (the electric bit) but a peugeot technician assured me they do i will look tommorow at work and confirm this, I cant really say more than that ,have you confirmed that the joining of the wires makes the fan and window work when the engine is running?original poster???
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as - elekie&a/c doctor says the ignition barrel and the electric connection with the wires connected slide out of the ignition housing through where you would put the key as said remove the grub screw turn the key and push in the locking button on the side and carefully slide it all out with the 2 electrical connectors undone,the wires are different colours on an ax to a saxo if you go the second hand route but the plugs will still interconnect,so make a note of which is which first.
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Hi Guys,
Well, armed with all the info I took the lower panel off the Saxo and bridged the two brown wires on the switch harness. Hey presto, the heater blower and HRW both burst into life. I did look at removing the lock assy but: A) could not find a grub screw and :B) could find no button to press in to aid removal. It was lashing down with rain so as you can imagine, enthusiasm was at a low ebb. I did wire (using suitable heavy duty cable) the two browns together as a temporary fix until she orders a replacement with the correct key.
Thanks to all who have contributed to the answer to this problem. As i often do, I give advice on Rover related problems on this site but its rewarding to be on the receiving end for once.
Cheers!!!
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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
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Robin
That's the equivalent of leaving the ignition permanently on for that whole feed circuit. I suggested bridging it purely for a few seconds as a test.
Consequences are unpredictable; but at the least that could flatten the battery; at worst burn-out the car. Fit a relay.
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hey im new to this forum but have similar problem to the one robin has mentioned although my brown wires were bridged with a 30a fuse inbetween. the fuse keeps heating up to the point it is melting!i want to remove the fuse but fear that it is there for a reason and will end up toasting my car without it...advice please
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traderbob, fit the relay as described earlier in the post
chris
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Hi,
My son has this problem with his heater on his saxo when you say fit the relay what sort of relay as i am not electrically minded but could follow instructions.
Thanks.
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a relay such as the following will do it,
tinyurl.com/5jbvhd
chris
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jordan
High-current circuit modifications are not a job for a novice. The right size of cables/terminals are required, the joints need soldering and the connexions are not simple.
Leave it to an auto-electrician.
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Thanks for the relies will try and find someone to do this if its that hard.
Edited by jordan on 06/04/2008 at 22:19
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hey guys,
I have the same fault... i was trying to fix the blower on my saxo, i found that there was a suspect lose wire/ connection in the loom of the ignition barrel. i havent fixed it, just know the blower works when the loom is held in a certain position... but now my indicators, stereo and alternator seem to be playing up, all fuses seem ok, the hazzards work and i've tried replacing the relay for the hazzards, but i've got the same problem. The alternator is showing a dimly lit battery light indicating it's not charging, but this only comes on when a relay under the fuse board energises after starting the engine and slightly increasing the revs, on idle it's fine. intermittantly the hazzard relay chatters when the indicators come on, but it seems to be linked to the relay under the fuse board... i've suspended the loom to the steering coloumn allowing the blowers to work but this does not explain the other faults! can they be linked? a faulty relay springs to mind as there seems to be too many relays clicking in and out!! any help would be amazing guys :)
cheers
Steve
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Hello can you tell me when you use the relay fix you posted, should the relay get hot to touch.
Many Thanks
Ben
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