>>what I will say is that in my time driving a car I can not remember having been cut up in this way by a truck.<<
>>Maybe this is because I read the road ahead, that includes looking to see if one vehicle in front is catching another and so will be pulling out<<
The first time I got scared to death by a lorry starting to amble out while I was passing him was also the last.
My rule is: if there is more than one lorry ahead in the same lane, one of them is bound to start ambling out. So I storm past them as fast as possible, leave a lane between, or stay where I am. And like Truckersunite I've never had a problem since.
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To reinforce a point already made, there are too many drivers (whatever the vehicle) who believe that by indicating they have the right to manouver and thus completely ignore another driver right of way as defined in the Highway Code.
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Now there's a question.
Let's say you were involved in an accident where a lorry pulled out into your lane while you were there. You could have avoided it by accelerating out of trouble but that would have involved breaking the speed limit, so you didn't. Would the police put any of the blame on your shoulders, as to prevent the accident would have involved breaking the law?
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A good motorway tip anyone can apply.
Before even contemplating overtaking a vehicle (whether it be a lorry, car white van man or whatever), check to see whether or not it's closing in on the vehicle in front.
If it is, either wait, or move into the next lane on the RHS if there is one and traffic conditions allow. This gives the overtaken vehicle more room if he hasn't seen you. If conditions don't allow you to do this, hang back for a few secs to see what unfolds and assess the position.
If he is not closing in, then he could be driving close, as truckers often do to one another for slip streams etc, or he could be waiting for the right moment. You need to decide.
This is not a total panacea for every such event but it will work for some.
H
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A good motorway tip anyone can apply.... etc...
Exactly what I wrote above!
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Bear this in mind. Regardless if its right or wrong, or what the highway code says, a quick flash of the headlights will be interpeted by 99% of lorry drivers as "the rear of your trailor is clear, pull out/in"
The higway code can say what it likes, but in the UK that is the practise.
(Its other way round in Europe - flash your lights to say "dont you dare pull out" or "get out of my way I am coming through like it or not"
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Bear this in mind. Regardless if its right or wrong, or what the highway code says, a quick flash of the headlights will be interpeted by 99% of lorry drivers as "the rear of your trailor is clear, pull out/in"
I think this is the top and bottom of this saga. You flashed as a warning (the continental way) but he took this as 'go ahead, pull out'.
Look at it this way, no one was hurt and you've learnt a valuable lesson about the use of flashing your headlamps!
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I am not about to start to pick this posting to pieces, nor am I going to try and stick up for the Lorry driver IF it was as clear cut as you say it was (but there are always two sides), but what I will say is that in my time driving a car I can not remember having been cut up in this way by a truck. Maybe this is because I read the road ahead, that includes looking to see if one vehicle in front is catching another and so will be pulling out, If you do any sort of advanced driving course they teach you that if you can not get past the vehicle to your left without having to stay alongside it for a prolonged period of time then it is not a safe manoeuvre. As for the spray, it is very difficult to see cars even with dipped beams on if it is raining hard and the mirrors are covered in water.
You have been very fortunate not to be cut up this way by a lorry driver. As for being in rain, it calls for greater care before pulling out.
With regard to looking to see if one vehicle in front is catching another, many lorry drivers drive nose to tail for miles without catching up and, if they are that close and travelling at a similar speed, which they mostly are, it is impossible to tell if one is gaining on another. Don't overtake if you cannot get past the vehicle to your left without having to stay alongside it for a long time? That is the opposite of what almost every lorry driver does when overtaking, isn't it?
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You have been very fortunate not to be cut up this way by a lorry driver. As for being in rain, it calls for greater care before pulling out.
It was not being fortunate, just driving with for thought.
With regard to looking to see if one vehicle in front is catching another, many lorry drivers drive nose to tail for miles without catching up and, if they are that close and travelling at a similar speed, which they mostly are, it is impossible to tell if one is gaining on another. Don't overtake if you cannot get past the vehicle to your left without having to stay alongside it for a long time? That is the opposite of what almost every lorry driver does when overtaking, isn't it?
If we had the option we would like to get past the vehicle to our left as quickly as possible, however, the powers that be seem to think that fitting a speed limiter set at no more then 56mph is a jolly good idea!!!!!!
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It was not being fortunate, just driving with for thought.
If we had the option we would like to get past the vehicle to our left as quickly as possible, however, the powers that be seem to think that fitting a speed limiter set at no more then 56mph is a jolly good idea!!!!!!
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With regard to forethought, if you do slow down every time you approach a line of lorries, you are going to get some very frustrated drivers behind you. As I said earlier, you can wait as long as you like to see if a lorry pulls out, but there is no guarantee it won't try to pull out when you do eventually try to overtake. There really is no excuse for such a manoeuvre, if it endangers the overtaking driver.
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Look, I know that Truckersunite is not going to like this and I am not going to get into a debate about it but....
I commute 124 miles round trip a day. Approximately 100 of this is on the A14 between J3 (Kettering) and J33(Newmarket), the vast majority of which is 2 lane dual carriageway, except the bit between Bar Hill and the Girton interchange.
To pass the journey, most of which I do on cruise control circa 72mph indicated (wherever possible), I observe other drivers and can usually anticipate what they are going to do, and when, by the position they take up in their lane. There's more to reading non obvious signals than most people realise and many read the road position signals without knowing it.
Anyway, I believe (i.e. it is my opinion to which I believe I am entitled) that, apart from the odd "Saint" like Truchersunite, most lorry drivers will happily use their bulk to intimidate anyone that gets in their way as they believe in their self righteous way that they have a right to baulk any other motorist that they feel like because they have to bring their speed back up to 56mph and it 'takes ages'! Let me make make my point clearly - Any Lorry drivers reading this - You do not have priority because you are unable to accelerate quickly!
Having said the above, if it is convenient and safe to do so I will always make room for another vehicle, car, Lorry or Bike if I can but I will not be bullied. Since A lorry pulled out on me and held me up for 7 miles while he overtook another lorry I am a little more "assetive"
I have lost count of the number of lorries that have cut me up by changing lanes suddenly (swerving rather than gentle drift), often without any indication and frequently late indication.
I saw 2 lorries veering from side to side this evening (admittedly within their own lane but it was disconcerting) and both were on the phone (not hands free).
Before anyone feels obliged to point it out, yes, I am aware that my puny car will come off worse but isn't that what these "professionals" are relying on: Bully tactics!
I'm know there are some good lorry drivers out ther but the majority are as selfish as everyone else on the road but the lorry drivers abuse their size and use intimidation techniques.
Oh, by the way, since when did lorries enetering the main carriageway from a slip road not have to give way? It seems thay don't bother anymore!
Now that the blue touch paper has been lit I shall retire to a safe distance!
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Going back to the days of my driving lessons, the procedure for pulling out of a line of traffic to overtake (or from stationary) was - mirror, signal (if there is a big enough gap to any vehicle approaching from behind) and then pull out. If visibility is not good enough to see behind, then there is doubt, so that means it is not safe to presume it is ok to pull out
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The procedure during an LGV test is to "Mirror, Signal, Mirror, Maneouvre" so we are expected to check the mirror more often then in the car test. But I really must stress the point that in the wet and spray a car gets easily lost in the spray, even with the lights on. In the rain last week I saw cars driving with only side lights on, some were grey in colour and were impossible to spot, the more time we spend looking in our mirrors the less time we spend looking ahead, there is always a trade off. Having your lights on does not exempt you from driving in a defensive style so to avoid all accidents. If I drove round all day expecting people to drive exactly like the highway code says we should then I would have lots of accidents everyday - would I still be in the right?? No I would not.....you should always drive with the assumption that other drivers will do the most stupid thing possible, that way you will never be dissapointed.
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I drive with my headlights on in rain, at all times. On the C5 they are Xenon lights, so as bright as you will find. There is little doubt that the lorry driver should have seen me when I was level with the back end of the lorry, even with the spray. I drive with more caution in the rain and I have had enough experience of lorry drivers to know that they often signal and pull out in one manoeuvre. So I am looking out for them. At some stage I make a decision to overtake and, even then I expect them to signal and pull out in one manoeuvre. I get very near to them and still I am watching for it to happen. If I am alongside them and it happens, what do you suggest doing? No light flashing because they will still assume it is OK to pull out? No horn sounding because they won't hear it?
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"But I really must stress the point that in the wet and spray a car gets easily lost in the spray, even with the lights on"
In that case you (lorry drivers) shouldn't be overtaking if you can't be 100% sure there isn't a car hidden in your plume of spray!
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Look, at the end of the day I am not defending bad driving antics by some lorry drivers - as has been said time and time again there are good and there are bad truck and car drivers, all I have been trying to point out is the physics of driving a large vehicle in the rain and wet. There is reduced visibilty, fact. Everyone has to be more careful, there are more accidents in these types of conditions for good reason, and it is the duty of EVERYONE to try and avoid those accidents, not just the people who are driving to the highway code.
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"....and it is the duty of EVERYONE to try and avoid those accidents, not just the people who are driving to the highway code."
I agree but like I said it is the RESPONSIBILITY of the person/vehicle performing the manoeuvre to make sure it is safe to do so. In my opinion, and experience, most lorry drivers will intimidate rather than wait.
If you can't see it's clear, or you would cause another road user to change course or speed then don't make the manoeuvre. It's that simple.
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I think everything has been covered in this particular discussion.
I'm locking this thread, as I'm sure next time someone else gets cut up by a car/truck/white van/ice cream float etc we'll all hear about it all over again ;)
Hugo - BR Moderator
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