Excuse skepticism, but having been involved in the anticorrosion coatings field for a long time, 30 years seems 'unguaranteeable'. Not only because the conditions of use are outside the manufacturer's control, but also because I can't believe coatings - superb as they are these days - can possibly be guaranteed for such a period. Unless the whole of the substrate metal itself is not subject to corrosion (e.g. galvanised steel or aluminium) and even then, the coating polymer itself will eventually degrade, regardless.
However I'm willing as always to learn.
Oz (as was)
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The anti-corrosion warranty on Merc's is for 30yrs and they are pretty good about getting the work done.
Just a shame that the new E-Class isn't very reliable, mine has had to be recovered twice now in a month and is sitting in the dealership while the mechanics scratch their heads. I am seriously considering leaving the Mercedes club as the last year of E-Class ownership has been a catalogue of problems.
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Sorry to read about your problems, Marcos. There's plenty of correspondence in the Mercedes Owners Club Gazette to confirm that you are far from alone (cold comfort, I know) and you should see the moaning & groaning about the dealers. All of which makes me feel rather comfortable with my 1996 E320 Coupé, serviced by an excellent mobile mechanic (who's a helicopter flying instructor when he's not servicing cars), a car I hope to keep for a long, long time and which promises to serve me well, having had no problems in the 24,000 miles I've driven it -- apart from a one-off slight perturbation of the cruise control and, of course, what M-B dealers managed to do to it in servicing (e.g. failing to refill the auto box correctly and overtightening a fitting such that a heavy-duty plastic component cracked).
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Its true that MB designers (in common with many others) seem to have taken technology beyond what they average dealership technician is capable of understanding. As some BR regulars will know, I do a certain amount of engineering consultancy work for major manufacturers. I have seen it happen that we have an electronic fault on a test vehicle, or in the engine test bed, and even with all the engineering staff on hand (i.e. the people who designed the stuff) the fault still cannot be fixed and we end up getting the technicians to just install a whole new system, wiring and all.
Unfortunately this situation is not going to get any better - not unless dealers start recruiting their technicians from the engineering department of Oxbridge!
MB reached their zenith with the W124 series - could be all downhill from now on.....
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Its true that MB designers (in common with many others) seem to have taken technology beyond what they average dealership technician is capable of understanding. As some BR regulars will know, I do a certain amount of engineering consultancy work for major manufacturers. I have seen it happen that we have an electronic fault on a test vehicle, or in the engine test bed, and even with all the engineering staff on hand (i.e. the people who designed the stuff) the fault still cannot be fixed and we end up getting the technicians to just install a whole new system, wiring and all. Unfortunately this situation is not going to get any better - not unless dealers start recruiting their technicians from the engineering department of Oxbridge! MB reached their zenith with the W124 series - could be all downhill from now on.....
I note this post from 8 years ago. Aprilia for parliament - this prophetic statement can be made about most every 'durable' we buy now.
The standard repair now is the replacement of sub assemblies at £100's a pop until the fault (maybe) disappears.
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Marcos - sorry to hear of your problems with your Merc, you mentioned that you were seriously considering "leaving the Mercedes club", if so, what would you consider as a suitable replacement ???
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Oz,
It's 'scepticism' with a "c" if you don't mind...
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It's 'scepticism' with a "c" if you don't mind...
Roger, you're right of course. Must have been the subject matter (the Merk) that threw me. ;0)
Oz (as was)
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Dude,
I have no idea to be honest. I would love to stay with an MB but in veiw of recent events I am getting a little fed up.
My freinds new BMW 5 series is no better or possibly worse so thats BMW out of the question too.
I don't like Japanese cars but I am thinking that maybe thats the way to go.
Any ideas?
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Lexus?
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The trouble with Lexus is they are so ugly and the dashboards just do not look nice places to sit behind.
The reason I bought the E-Class was that it was classy to look at, drove well and sitting in it is a nice place to be.
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Marcos. It has been mentioned on this forum on various occasions that a car is the sum of many parts, and it is so difficult to get a combination where everything is spot on.
Through clever advertising by the so called prestige German marques, we have been "conditioned" to believing all the hype and that they are invincible. IMHO they do succeed in many areas such as their quality interiors, great handling and generally sound coachwork, but through inferior electronic components their reliability is well below that of the Japanese.
At the end of the day, one has to ask yourself, what is your principal criteria for choosing any make of car, and I am beginning to come to the conclusion that the most important factor of all has to be reliability.
This is where the Japanese have been consistantly supreme over many years, and whilst I have had no problems with my BMW to date, if it starts to give trouble, I am definitely looking East for my next motor.
One car that I have tested recently and mightily impressed me was the new Honda Accord 2.4 Executive with the 190 bhp engine. I know the interior is not up to Merc/BMW standards, but the engine/gearbox combination was absolutely sublime with superb ride and handling and very little torque steer. Mechanically the engine felt so refined and well balanced, that it is light years ahead of anything built in Germany and worth a try !!!!
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Having owned a succession of MBs, I too am looking towards Japan for the replacement of my current C Class which has failed to live up to the standard of its predecessors.
The metallic paintwork is disgracefully thin,brittle & were it not for the 3M plastic tape adorning all frontal areas, would be a pepperpot of stonechips.
The electronics have proved to be unreliable & failure prone.
The cheap interior trim/plastics are reminiscent of my old 60s Fords.
Whilst engineering integrity is maintained, I anticipate this too will join the downward path in future models.
Subaru or Lexus(They are ugly) is my current train of thought.
Lucy Ts friend
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As a very long-time MB fan I too am very disappointed by the quality of recent Mercedes. The old W126, W124 and even W201 truly were amongst the best cars in the world. The same cannot be said of the current line up.
There is a wonderful paradox with prestige cars though. 15/20 years ago there was a massive chasm between 'average family cars' and the 'prestige' products. Nowadays though, the average car is so good that one has to question the wisdom of buying a prestige car. Increasing, all they have left is the badge and reputation from a former era.
Earlier this year I had the opportunity to drive a brand new C200 and then step into a brand new Mondeo 2.0. To be honest, the Mondeo was a better drive. Granted, the dashboard wasn't as nice, but at less than half the price I wouldn't complain. And when you look at the prices they go for in the supermarkets they really are a stupendous buy and make the purchase of the smaller-engined C-class look absurd.
Two weeks driving a new Vectra 2.2Auto in Germany also made me realise how good 'average' cars can be. Given that the previous week I was driving a new Munich-registered 320i, I was mighty impressed with the Vectra. I didn't like the styling much, but it was very quiet and took me around Bavaria and Austria in fine comfort and with excellent fuel economy. My wife also much prefered the heating/air-con of the Vectra to that of the BMW.
The suggestions above about Subaru, Honda 2.4 are all sound, I also personally like Lexus (don't think they're ugly), but then I liked the W126 shape Merc. as well.
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Well, I'm very happy with my humble Honda Jazz SE! Thank goodness I don't have any aspirations to buy an MB! LOL!
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As an owner of a 98 320 Estate Auto looking to change soon and put off by the reports of the new E.
Would like a diesel auto and will consider BMW.
Have read that Lexus will introduce their new hybrid engine to the RX series and will await the detail later this year.
Anyone know of these ?
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Audi,
Have had 2 now A4 and A6, both have coverd quite large mileages with little / no fuss, build quality is fantastic. At the moment I am driving an A4 with 147K on the clock, and except for servicing the only parts replaced have been tyres, brakes and a couple of suspension components (Still on original exhaust system). I want to change car, but cant really justify it when the thing just keeps going!
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Quite right. "Skeptic" is only used if you're a Septic.
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The 30-year corrosion warranty claim is all fluff; I recently bought a new C-Class estate from a UK M-B dealer and read through the user manuals with gusto..then there is a statement about the 30-year corrosion warranty (paraphrased here): ?..you are covered for one event that perforates the body from the inside out..?. In other words, if the car starts to rust through then they will not continue to fix the car ad infinitum. Very clever get out clause.
A clear case of marketing hyperbole.
I bought it for the EuroNCAP 5-star rating and the light interior. The interior is cheap-looking: a Mk IV Golf is better (and I have owned one). Even the seat rails are bare metal (Golf is hidden under a classy shroud. Nice touch.) and there are visible screw threads everywhere. Appalling. Hope the new 2004 facelift model has a better one since it was styled by the ex-Audi interior design bloke MB poached 13 months ago.
Body work finish is not perfect either and there is noticeable wind noise over 60 MPH.
The plus point is the ride: totally smooth and refined. But that?s it. Mercedes are definitely resting their laurels and only the brand image and marketing gurus keep them in the running.
If the Toyota Avensis had a pale interior then I would have bought that: the quality was 100% but the customised interior options were not good. Shame. Honda Accord was almost there but it was only 4 star NCAP. Audi A4 was unrefined compared to the C-Class.
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Agree about the wind noise. The 'new' C-class makes more than the old W202, which in turn made more than the W201 (190E) - very strange when the body shape is getting (apparently) more aerodynamic. I think it comes from around the A-posts; you would have thought it a fundamental bit of design to get that right.
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"I think it comes from around the A-posts; you would have thought it a fundamental bit of design to get that right."
IMO I would suggest that this has nothing to do with the shape of the A post design, but further evidence of the cost cutting regime within M. Benz, by fitting inferior quality door seals.
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Unfortunately BMW appear to have gone down a similair road. I test drove a 330ci and the internal build quality was terrible, my freinds new 530d is a pile of junk, 2 turbos and a complete dashboard in 2 months, and my dads freinds 745 has spent most of the last year awaiting various parts that keep failing.
My W211 E320 CDI is still sitting in the dealers whilst they scatch their heads as they cant find why it wont start.
I used to think that the Germans had the car building thing licked, now I'm not sure.
Although my E-Class is beautifully put together it hasn't stopped it breaking down twice in a month. Mercedes said they had addressed the build quality problems with the new E-Class, which they have but mechanically it is suspect.
Unless the big German names sort themselves out I fear we will all be driving Japanese within a few years.
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I reckon Lexus are best placed to take business away from the German prestige brands. The mechanicals seem well proven but I just wish they could make their exterior styling a bit more attractive and their interiors as good as Audi.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - MB and BMW know that the Japanese are the ones to beat.
The Japs have not really being trying in the European prestige market yet (maybe for political reasons?) - Lexus is playing it very gently and brands like Infiniti and Accura have not even been introduced. For the time being they are content to work on the US market - but in due course they will introduce 'Europeanised' versions and then there will be all hell let loose.
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/Tongueincheek. Honda Jazz anyone? /Tongueincheek
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My uncle's just bought a Jazz and is over the moon with it. Mind you he did have VX Astra's for years before.
I agree with Smartdealer about the interiors. The cars dont look too bad but the Japanese interiors all seem to look the same boring thoughtless rubbish, sort the interiors out and I'll buy a Lexus.
Maybe
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I reckon the German car industry is now where the British car industry was in the late '60s / early '70s. Trading on reputation, without the product to back it up.
They can either continue as they are, heading towards being where the British car industry is now, or they can get Japanese quality control and preproduction testing methods in sharpish.
Has to be sharpish too, the Rover / Honda partnership cars had the quality right (quite a lot of 'em are still going strong to this day) but the reputation damage had already been done and most were not prepared to believe it and give 'em another chance. Building reputation is hard, destroying it is easy. Look at the monumental effort Toyota went to to cure their outbreak of the collywobbles recently, replacing / recalling everything perceived to be faulty, even when in fact quite a few things weren't. There's a company that knows exactly how important a reputation for reliability is.
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