Each time a new/ revised model is launched the car buying public are told how much better than the old one it is. Just like washing powder, this makes me wonder how we all got along so well before. Apart from the obvious styling changes and any fancy new gadgets by how much is the average new car a significant improvement over its predecessor ?
I you have bought a new car, have you found it to be better or worse than the model it replaced and, if so, how ?
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'significant improvement' covers a multitude of sins Vman. I would suggest any 'improvement' totally outweighed by the "keep up with the Jones " factor. Plus not usually their own money being spent.
No objection to this on my part. Where else are all the second hand motors going to come from which are free from depreciation for the sensible.
Happy Motoring Phil I
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WHen I worked for a major washing powder manufacturer, we used to consider there had only been 5 major advances in washing powder since the war. The rest were perfumes etc.
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Ah but have you ever gone and driven an old car you used to think was good? They feel like old prams once you're used to moden ones, but having said that, it's only relative....If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor....... as the song goes.
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Not sure VM, I see your point but I think there have been significant improvements but then we tend to buy second hand and keep our cars for quite a few years so it's not quite each new model. But, for instance, in 3 cars we went from a BX normally aspirated diesel, to the turbo diesel and then to an HDi and each successive one impressed with the improvement in power, torque, quietness and sophistication. We also went from no sunroof to tilt and slide then to sunroof and climate control (sunroof superfluous?)and thought each successive improvement great.
However, if you change your car each couple of years for the same but newer model, perhaps there isn't much progress: if you change every 5 years or more then there is.
My nominations for best improvements (apart from engines as above) are cross ply to radial tyres (remember the impact of those Mich & Pirellis in the '60s(?)) and disc brakes. But then I also remember cars with no heaters, no windscreen washers and no radio. And the biggest decision I had to make? Cassette or 8-track! Needless to say I went for 8-track!! Anyone want 200 8-tracks of Yes, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, Alex Harvey Band, Saxon etc??!!
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Phil,
"I went for 8-track!! Anyone want 200 8-tracks of Yes, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd, Alex Harvey Band, Saxon etc??!!"
I will swop you for some super Betamax video tapes and a really expensive slide rule!
C
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Marlot, am I right in telling SWMBO not to use as much powder as it says on the packet, because *of course* the manufacturers are going to say use *loads*. Not that she takes any notice mind.
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Cardew,
Sorry mate , already got them! But I feel you could be a potential buyer of my old Atari computer (complete with various rally/driving games - motoring link!)
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Not to mention that old motoring classic "Spyhunter" on the C64...
As for the 8-tracks, my childhood memories are scarred by my father's Harvest Gold (Beige) Austin Princess with the Stylistics belting out of the eight-track as I peeled my burnt legs from the vinyl seats.
Yooooouuu... to me are everything.....
Mind you, it would have been a whole lot better if he had played Saxon.
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Marlot, am I right in telling SWMBO not to use as much powder as it says on the packet, because *of course* the manufacturers are going to say use *loads*. Not that she takes any notice mind.
Lezebre - I use the tablets these days but after dropping one and it smashing I thought "pfd it" and used one. No difference at all to the wash. I only ever use one tablet now and it always makes a fine job of the washing. My ex always used to fill the entire s**ding powder tray up - I used to put about a third the amount in and it never made any difference.
As a suggestion you could try sticking with the current washing powder and changing the missus instead :)
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>>I use the tablets these days but after dropping one.......
Didn't realise you had a drug problem, Dan, but if you want to send me an e we can talk about it if you want..... ;)
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"Where else are all the second hand motors going to come from which are free from depreciation for the sensible."
Why buying a new car is "not sensible"? Who says so? And who says used cars don't get depreciation? The critical age is 5 years. After that the curve gets steeper and steeper.
And in the same way, why not buy second hand clothes? And food? Now second hand food is really free from depreciation, isn't it?
IMO, you buy second hand when you can't afford the car you want as new.
Vagelis.
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Yes we need new cars to be made and each new model should represent an improvement in all sorts of ways. However in terms of 'drivability' how much better is, say, the new Vectra over the old one or the new Mondeo over the last one ? In terms of looks, I prefer the new Mondeo and old Vectra but which would I prefer driving ?
As the owner of a 12 year old car, I'm sure (well I hope !) then next one I get will perform a lot better and show me how far things have progressed but for those who change every 3 years or even less, how much change is real improvement and how much just cosmetics ?
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Washing powder. Grrrrrrr.
Yes, look where we've got in the past five years. Take a cheap powder. Add a little water and form it into tablets, then dry it. Hey presto, charge 50% more for the same powder. Then, a couple of years later, add more water, put it into little bags and sell it for another 50% price increase! If you don't believe me, work out the cost per wash for old-fashioned powder when you're next in the supermarket. If you live in a soft water area (or have a water softener) it's even more savings for you; you'll cut your costs by so much, they'll bleed. Sorry for the rant, but you've picked on one of my pet subjects.
At least with cars, we tend to get more for our money each time. Remember when the 140hp Cavalier SRi was THE car? You'll get a diesel with that performance nowadays, for a much smaller percentage of your annual salary. The problem is that you don't do the jump in one go, so you don't see big advances, just new models now and again steadily improving little by little.
V
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My current car is improved in almost every way over my previous one. Definately not marketing hype, the changes are real ad very noticeable in terms of comfort, performance, security... everything really.
Having little cause to use a washing machine regularly (I still live at home :) I can't comment on how quickly the pwders progress, but I bet they don't progress as quickly as cars do.
Also my last car was a *huge* improvement over the 6 year old car that it replaced.
Blue
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I think it's a very difficult thing to do, to compare a current model with a previous one. Say the manufacturer revises models every five years or so. To do a fair comparison you really should be comparing like with like, ie, a brand new example of each model. You also need to remove all bias by ignoring any factors attributable to current 'fashions'. (For example, amber indicators no longer seem to be considered fashionable, but ~5 years ago, no problem). However, the best you're going to manage is a five year age gap between models. So sure, the newer model is going to be better - clean, quiet, no squeaks or rattles, no miles, 'modern', etc.
On the other side of the coin, I think it's very easy to become blind to progress and get stuck in the "they don't make them like they used to" rut.
As for washing powders, agree with all points above. Who do they think they are kidding? It's difficult being so cynical sometimes.
Ed.
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From Vin's profile: "But sometimes, when duty calls, I turn into Omegaman, defender of the best car ever to roll out of Luton."
Err, no.
That was my now departed Vectra GSi Estate, even if it did leave Luton as a SRi and become a GSi a few miles up the road with MSD! ;-)
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From Vin's profile: "But sometimes, when duty calls, I turn into Omegaman, defender of the best car ever to roll out of Luton." Err, no. That was my now departed Vectra GSi Estate, even if it did leave Luton as a SRi and become a GSi a few miles up the road with MSD! ;-)
Pistols at dawn it is, then.
Who'll be my second? Svpworld, Omega Owner, Mark (rlbs)?
V
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Well, for the 2nd time, I am replacing my car with an OLDER one.
L and P reg Xantias, I could choose to drive either one of them or both - but no SWMBO wants the K reg Discovery!
Ok I do as well ;)
Its just because the Discovery gives us more of what both Xantias lack - ie MPV type space with more functionality at a fraction of the cost.
The last time I went to an older car I changed from a G reg Fiat Regata Weekend to a D reg Pug 309 SRi. Why? Because the Pug had only 41K on the clock to the Fiat's 91K, and - well the SRi was a better car IMO, though lost the versatility of the estate.
Although SWMBO liked the Fiat, shame I didn't keep it for her really.
Hugo
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The main thing is not to use washing powder to wash the car!!
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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The main thing is not to use washing powder to wash the car!!
And not put it in the tumble drier afterwards!!
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What a BOLD title for a post. We are DAZzled by this title. Stems the TIDE of badly named posts anyway. A FLASH of brilliance.
Must go, got more of the web to SURF.
clariman.
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Q.> Marlot, am I right in telling SWMBO not to use as much powder as it says on the packet, because *of course* the manufacturers are going to say use *loads*. Not that she takes any notice mind.
A.> If she uses the amount it says on the packet she's doing better than almost everyone in our trials. Virtually everyone adds a little bit extra 'to make sure the clothes are clean'.
Too much powder actually makes the clothes less clean than the right amount.
The major advances if anyone's interested are (in no particular order):
Enzymes
Bleaches (only in liquids)
Fluorescers (UV reflectors = whiter than white)
Micro powders (clever way of reducing the bulker)
Tablets
Tim
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Well having driven and owned cars for over 35years (old age!), my observations are:
1. Usually latest models are significantly better.
2. quality is very much better.
3. functionality is much better
4. reliability is much better
EXCEPT if
1. the manufacturer is generally underperforming (Fiat, Rover to name but 2)
2. the dealers are no good (Fiat, Rover)
3 The parts supply is poor (Rover)
madf
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"of course the manufacturers are going to say use loads"
As in the world's most successful long-term con, seen on every bottle of shampoo: "Rinse and repeat".
In my experience, women tend to fall for this, but men don't. However, I can't claim to have done an exhaustive survey...
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I you have bought a new car, have you found it to be better or worse than the model it replaced and, if so, how ?
No, but nearly. Own 1999 Mondeo and have driven new-shape Mondeos. Better in just about every way except possibly fuel economy, the new car being bigger, heavier and more powerful. More comfortable, quieter, faster, easier to drive, better ride, nicer interior ...
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Anyone recall the full page newspaper adverts for VW in the seventies? Featured something like 20 or so, Beetles all in red, except for 1, in green.
The tag line ran something along the lines of, Mr so & so, always had a new one every year & fancied a change, from his 'usual' model!
VB
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Newness is something which appeals to all human beings. Newness represents regeneration, ribirth or a recapture of youth. Sameness represents sterility,futility and all the attendant problems of lack of stimulation. We are creatures that like change, even if it is just for its own sake. Fixing ones eyes on the same dashboard; feeling the same hand controls; plunking ones well padded rear end on the same piece of fabric does not make us feel alive.
Enthusiasm and passion about ones surroundings keep us feeling alive. Who wants to keep a car for ten years even if it is designed to last fifty? It is an inanimate object...we do not owe it loyalty or affection. When it bores us it must discard it like last weeks garbage...if it doesn\'t bore us what does that say about ourselves? Are we contented? Are we Budhists frittering away our all too short lives eating lentils and pink fluffy dice up our knees? Do we keep cars a long time because it is economical to do so? Have we become sad little accountants who count the pennies and derive smug satisfaction in the knowledge that our bank ballances are slightly greater than they would have been otherwise. Newness is pleasureful. Difference is as important as oxygen to the mind. Personally I\'m with the Japs on this one.
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Well I think you should change your forum name to "PhilosopherFred". :-)
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Philosophy doesn't bear thinking about.
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BTW does the same apply to marriage ? Trade in the missus for a new model every few years ? ;-)
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Careful, VM - I expect HF is round here somewhere...
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Do we keep cars a long time because it is economical to do so? Have we become sad little accountants who count the pennies and derive smug satisfaction in the knowledge that our bank ballances are slightly greater than they would have been otherwise.
*slightly* greater ???
I could certainly cope psychlogically with changing the car at Japanese inspired frequency, but my slightly greater bank balance justs seems to keep disappearing on other things.
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