It would seem there is a heart in the local (Thames Valley) constabulary.
I took the 3500S to work yesterday, it wasn\'t so hot to dread the nagging vapour lock problem that I can\'t seem to shift and also the lack of air-con (I know, 30 year old car and that). It was perfect weather and the roads are really quiet at the mo.
I took the scenic route home through Windsor and Eton rather than the M4 and I fell foul of a Police car. I got the blues and twos from a smart looking Omega jam sandwich.
I was really dreading it, I have one SP30 to my name already. I saw them and looked at the speedo reading about 55-57 in a 50.
So I pulled over, two cops got out. I wound down the window expecting a real lecture, the carbs are running a bit rich at the moment too.
\'Hello sir, there\'s a problem with your car.\'
I thought it was serious now.
It transpired they\'d pulled me because my off-side rear indicator bulb had blown and they flagged me on it. These pink fluffy dice 4W jobs are always blowing (Lucas, THE prince of darkness)
I show them my license to one and other is going round the car, probably checking tyres etc, etc. I have a toolkit (the original including two nice \'Rover\' screwdrivers and some spare bulbs so I ask the officier if I change the bulb now would they refrain from a producer.
\'Sure, go ahead.\'
So out I get unscrew the rear pod to the fascination of these two young lads. I\'m 32 and these two weren\'t out of nappies. Lots of questions, how much HP, how fast, nice to drive etc, etc. Told them Jack the Ripper and Princess Grace of Monaco own one (why I told them the first one I don\'t know !)
Job\'s done and they help me check the bulb is ok, I ask them to check all the bulbs and they are all fine.
And then it happened.
\"Excuse sir, one last thing.\"
\"Of course?\"
\"Try to keep your speed down a little, you were just over what we allow on this road.\"
\"Oh, sorry officer, of course I will, the speedo needle shakes a bit, it is difficult to keep an accurate eye on it, it\'s an older car.\"
\"No problem but try to keep an eye on it and by the way, nice car.\"
\"Thanks.\"
So if you two lads are reading, thanks for not giving me a ticket and cheers for the help and compliment.
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Thank you Sir for those kind words.
You others can you understand why Speed cameras destroy Police?Public relations/ If you can write to the Chief Cosntable, North Wales Police.....
DVD
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It's not really my 'manor' as such as that's the Met. No offence but Thames Valley do have a reputation for being a bit harsh especially Traffic which I think these two lads were, either that or the 'Area' car.
I don't like the indiscriminate use of cameras as much as the next man but the old bill have enough trouble on their hands for me to give them stick. I guess maybe I'm a bit old school as I was brought up to respect the law and the Police.
I was impressed, they could have made a big deal out of it but didn't.
And the moral of the story: Carry a few spare bulbs and some fuses and the some tools to do the job.
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IMHO that's really how it should be, a little over the top, a word in your ear, done nicely, job done, no-one too upset. If they catch you again, you've been warned, fair cop, off to magistrates with you. That's how it was when I first started out driving and as DVD says it kept police/public relations on a pretty even keel. Nice to see there are still some coppers out there who try to keep things friendly.
Trouble is I also expect to see coppers on the beat and expect their watches to be telling the correct time as well....
Cockle
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Im researching the intra net to find issues I can raise in defence for a speeding fine (i didnt do it guv honest, however I found the Association of Chief Police Officers (WWW.acpo.police.uk) site last night and read their 'Road Policing Enforcement Technology Code of Practice, revised March 2003'
It makes interesting reading. In the foreword it says
'It is imerative that the procedures in this document are applied scurpulously - each link in the evidential chain is of importance, and upon ist careful application lays the intergrity of the Police Service' Guess who penned that, yer man from North Wales. Chief Constable Mr Brunstrom.
Bit further it say that all first issue of NIPs should be sent by recorded delivery. Seems they recognise that a date on a letter is not proof that it was posted on that date, left in the out tray on the printer etc. So they believe you need the recorded delivery to prove it was sent within 14 days. So if they didnt send it recorded/registered they broke their own code of practice and didnt scrupulously follow the code. In MrBrunstroms own words the evidential chain is broken.
It sone of the things I plan to raise.
Lots more things to catch them on, it also says that a copy is snet to each force for use in the courts, so why not use it for your purposes when you canshow they failed to apply it as they should.
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"smart looking Omega jam sandwich"
There's no accounting for taste.... :o)
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There have been a few posts/threads here lately to do with speeding. There have also been some along the lines of 'there but for the grace of god go I'.
I am not having a go at any individual here, far from it, but I just do not understand why people continue to speed excessively (and recent postings seem to suggest that 20mph above the limit is acceptable)when they are risking their lives and those of all around them.
I don't dispute that sometimes conditions seem safer, eg in the middle of the night when no-one else is about. Maybe that's ok.
But in the normal course of things, just *why*? It's been reiterated so many times here by others that, should one want to drive that fast, there are places to do it. But not on our roads.
We all think we're better drivers than anybody else. A lot of people seem to feel that they can control a car at speeds that nobody else could. Maybe they can, maybe they can't - I'd just prefer it if they experimented somewhere where I and my loved ones are not going to be.
I'd prefer it even more if they saw sense and realised they are not immortal; but since that's unlikely to happen, then please keep your death-wishes to yourselves, and let the rest of us carry on with our lives.
HF
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philwalker. I have no legal qualifications but follow speeding law quite closely. I see that you are quoting ACPO guidelines as amended in 2003 but, in most cases, proof that a NIP was sent to the keeper's registered address, is taken to exist with proof of posting and it is assumed that it has been received. This is despite PO admitting to losing 500,000 items of mail a month, or is it a week? Loads of excellent information on this, and related matters, at the oddly named www.pepipoo.com!!!!
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300,000 items go missing each week?
So if you've returned your unsigned NIP, and they send out another letter, not mentioning the unsigned form, but just offering £60 fine and 3 points if you send them your license within 28, else face the courts, would it be a acceptable in court, if it eventually got there to say "I never received the conditional offer, must have been amongst the 300,000 weekly missing letters."
I guess it wouldnt get you off the charge, but surely they couldn't do more than give you the £60 fine and 3 points, as proof of posting isnt proof of delivery.
So you could play that game and hope that it never gets to court.
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Mine didnt arrive recorded, that seems the same for most people I chatted to, in my case its a company car and when I asked who got the original I was told it had nothing to do with me and the phone was hugn up.
If they didnt send it recorded, ACPO effectivley say they have no proof of posting that will hold up in court.
REgards .... Phil
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Totally agree HF but I'm not gonna lose my temper this time. Just wish people could see the risks they are taking and the danger they pose to themselves and others. Seems to be the case that only a serious or fatal accident will make some people see sense. The really sad thing is that each time they get away with some serious speeding or even a near miss it only makes them feel more invulnerable. That is, of course, until the day comes when they don't get away with it, people are killed/maimed and many, many lives are ruined forever. That day could be today, tomorrow, next week, next year but there's no point arguing with serial speeders because they know best and speeding doesn't kill does it.
Many speeders justify their actions by complaining that the limit is too low but you and I know that you could make the limit 100 tomorrow and many of these people would want to break that limit too if their cars would allow. Don't know what the answer to all this is but can't help thinking that the sort of digital technology now available will put a stop to it on motorways/major roads at least thank God. Hopefully those who want to enjoy the undoubted thrill of driving quickly will then do so on safe, private tracks.
Keep safe everyone.
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V, with you on this one completely. I know it's not a popular view here but it's something I feel strongly about, hence the rant.
I've mentioned before that, despite figures showing that mile for mile motorways are the safest places to drive, I am absolutely paranoid about them, and would drive any distance out of my way to avoid them. This is purely because of the speed factor, and the fact that I don't feel anyone can be totally in control of a car above a certain speed. Maybe motorway accidents are fewer, but they are sure as hell usually much worse.
We have to drive to Crowborough next week, and I am studying ludicrous routes with the intention of sticking to A and B roads. Lord knows what will happen if I ever have to negotiate a route oop north.
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Don't take offence, HF, but you strike me as a driver that isn't very confident about driving and has a attitude to risk that isn't realistic in some ways. I am a cautious driver and don't believe in unnecessary risks but I don't have the fear of motorways you seem to. I felt the same as you when I first passed my test but travelling along motorways on my own and observing how other people drove on them safely I learned the skill necessary to do it and feel ok about it. I found the best way of travelling on a busy motorway when you feeling like everyone is out to get you ( I have had several journies like that!) is to stick in the inside lane in a nice big gap and keep an eye on the traffic behind so you know when you also have a gap to your right. If you can keep a gap in front, behind and to your side then you will feel a lot safer as you have places to go if something should happen.
If you are taking A and B roads then you are much more likely to be involved in an accident than on a motorway. You are also much more likely to be killed or injured on the A & B roads rather than on a motorway. I seriously think you would benefit from doing an advanced driving course and learning some defensive driving techniques so you could feel happier about being on the road.
teabelly
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Thanks for this post teabelly, I was thinking along the same lines but couldn't find a tactful way to say it.
My other half has been driving for many years but always had a fear of motorways, amongst other things (turning right, for instance...!)
Her job moved 30 miles along the M4 so the motorway was no longer avoidable.
Driving on the m'way has actually done wonders for her overall driving confidence and competence.
Having said that, she was previously driving a 1.1 Fiesta which is underpowered and in which even I felt a little vulnerable when on the m'way. The Focus has a bit more grunt, and is less likely to be accidentally stepped on by an HGV.
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In agreement with Smokie, Teabelly, no offence taken and thanks for your post.
In normal driving situations, ie places I know, and don't have to panic about whether I'm in the right lane or not, or whatever, I'd say I'm pretty confident with my driving.
However, about a week after I first passed my test (9 years ago now) I stupidly attempted motorway driving, and the experience has put me off ever since.
I do note your point about keeping to the inner lane, and if I had to drive on a motorway I would certainly want to do this. I am quite happy sticking behind Mr or Mrs 'won't do more than 60 whatever road they're on'. What worries me about the inside lane is having to keep moving over when other roads are joining the motorway. Although, as you say, if I knew I had a gap to the right as well, maybe this wouldn't be such a worry.
I also take what you're saying about the A and B roads - it's all I've ever known really, and I'm not sure whether I really am more likely to be killed on them than on a motorway. Although I accept what you're saying.
I think you're absolutely right that I would get benefit out of an advanced driving course - and if I do have to start motorway driving then that's something I would seriously consider. Can't say yet that I'll stop trying to avoid such journeys - because they still fill me with fear. But your advice is good.
As I said, no offence taken at all, and thanks for your post. It's helpful, understanding, and informative.
HF
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[dons helmet, head firmly above parapet]
Well V and HF, I'm going to sit in the unpopular corner with you.
What I don't get is this.
Let's (over)simplify the appropriate speed bit
We all drive along roads and say the limit is X, hmmm thats a bit quick because of whatever so I'll drive at Y, where Y < X.
Equally if we are honest we all drive along roads where the limit is also X, and perhaps can't quite see the reason why.
So at this point the population splits into two. Some say OK, I'll stick at speeds up to X because I don't want to get nicked, or there might be some hazard that I have not clocked yet.
Yet others say, limit must be wrong I'll ignore it, then get all mardy when they do get nicked and blame everyone else. Plus call anyone in the other group a numpty.
I mean what gives anyone the right to decide which laws to obey and which not.
Where does it stop?
I want to park here but there are yellow lines, so I'll park anyway don't care how it affects anyone else.
Traffic queue is in the way so I'll drive on the pavement.
Red light? What a personally inconvenient time and place for a red traffic light, I'll carry on and not stop or bounce up on the pavement go round the corner then I'm on a green aren't I?
One way street? What a personally inconvenient place, I'll drive up it the wrong way.
Getting dark? Don't feel like putting my lights on.
etc etc etc.
This sort of behaviour is the sort of stuff that we see from pedal cyclists everyday, and just look how that behaviour is reviled.
I'm all for if the law is wrong then try and change it in the proper manner.
So come on law breakers, justify it!
[hunkers down under cover]
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Superbly put and I'm in 100% agreement.
We have laws. We may not like them. But we abide by them. Or we face the penalty. Simple as that.
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Spot on FIF - There was I thinking (not!) that all sorts of clever(ish) answers to your points would be forthcoming but it's all gone a bit quiet in the speeding camp hasn't it.
BTW I've never been a sheep of any description so I don't mind being part of a rather exclusive club here ;-)
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Sometimes I wish I was perfect too...but not often...
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Speed is only a factor in road accidents when it is excessive. Speed cameras are totally ineffective against excessive speeders - police, criminals etc. - because these categories do not take any notice of speed cameras.
Incompetence is by far the biggest factor in road accidents - I can't see a campaign to remove all incompetent drivers from the road getting very far because there wouldn't be many of us left.
Accident rates are increasing in the UK for the first time in many years. This increase correlates with the introduction of speed cameras.
Speed cameras are a distraction and under the present scheme make no contribution to road safety.
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