Hootie
I've owned numerous Fiats ( unlike Sean I suspect, who's terminally biased) I currently have a Punto HGT which I bought at auction 7 months ago and apart from a sticky gear linkage (£60 to fix at independent) I've had no problems at all. This confirms my previous experience with Fiats, ie no more trouble than any other car I've owned. Suggest Sean explains why any web site that reviews current cars ( Including Honest John) never appears to share his negative opinions. I agree they may have a few niggles but so do most other cars. I've also owned numerous Saabs which certainly do have perceived value as "quality " cars and have had more expensive problems with them than i've ever had with Fiats. Fiats reputation is partly a hangover from the days when thet were terminal rustbuckets but they're all galvanised bodies now. I agree if you want the best reliability buy Japanese but I think there are other factors that some may consider just as important, such as style and fun. I agree there are cars in Fiats lineup that are bad buys new, as with most manufacturers but the Punto is a very popular car for good reasons. If you saw Sundays Top Gear test of the new Alfa 147 they all slated it objectively against the Golf ( and another which I've forgotten!) but in the end 3 presenters chose it without hesitation subjectively. Hearts should rule heads sometimes!
I've no experience recently of Fiat dealers as I use an independent but the general opinon is they're not too good, the Punto is another matter, it's a great small car, especially In HGT or Sporting trim.
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Yes, I am terminally biased against Italian cars and bikes.
I am a graduate engineer and am highly dissatisfied with the engineering I've seen there. You can jump in and tell me about wondrous Ferraris, with 12 cylinders and 4 valves per cylinder and I'd point out that you need to remove the engine just to change the cambelts, let alone the clutch.
I look at the size of the wires in the cable looms. About a quarter of the size of German ones. I listen to Snr.Agnelli whose company it is, admitting what I'm already thinking.
Hootie, I respect what you're doing.
I have 2 kids myself. I made all the mistakes. My wife thought it would be a great idea if she and I went to a posh Scarborough hotel and left our kids at home to run a party for my daughter's 18th birthday. It took months to rectify the damage and replace all the stolen stuff.
I invested £100,000s in my pension. Now what are pensions worth?
I bought my daughter a Micra for her first car. It needed regular maintenance (1990 model) but she wouldn't get her hands dirty.
You will understand the misery of wondering where your daughter is when she has to drive from Leeds to Southampton in an unreliable car.
She thinks she can handle anything, until it all goes horribly wrong, then she's a whimpering "puppy" again.
Who has to sort out all the mess? We do.
I bought her a Seat Arosa diesel 1.7SDi and she's had no trouble at all in the past 18 months and 25,000 miles since she got it.
I'm only a member of the Backroom to try and help. If I'm not helping I'll depart.
My experience of Italian bikes was even worse. When I had a Cagiva Canyon I had to sell it in pieces for hungry buyers needing parts. No chance of selling it complete. I even thought of taking the oxy-acetylene lance to it and claiming the insurance it was so bad.
(Highly illegal. No, we won't go there)
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May I suggest a look at the J D Power User Satisfaction survey.
available on the What Car? website (under News)
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Hootie,
If you want to look at Nissan Micras, there's a good Nissan dealership in Southborough, between Tunbridge Wells and Tonbridge on the A26. Called Birchwood Nissan, and shares its space with an Esso station. We got a very cheap Micra from there, and they've provided good service.
In terms of Puntos, a friend has a two year old Punto HGT and just had a second (or maybe third) gearbox put in. It's the high power version, and he does tend to drive it quite quickly though, so possibly his fault. Apart from that, no problems.
Good Luck!
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My mother and sister both have Puntos, have been excellent. We`re lucky in that we have a main dealer which is family run so is in the main excellent.
As for Fiat engineering, did you know they invented the common rail diesel engine? (Now fitted to every car make going?) and the Alfa 156 was the first car to have one? Not exactly a sign of poor Italian engineering!
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Sean- you wouldn't want a Ducati then? Or a Ferrari, or a Bugatti or Lambo. or an Alfa or any other of the automotive icons from Italy? Italy has produced some of the greatest automotive design statements and still continues to do so( and I have to admit I speak from the viewpoint of a professional designer, not an engineer) For some reason Italian cars seem to produce a very pro and anti response, I think we'll just have to agree to differ!
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Well said Lordwoody, each to his/her own. It would be a very boring place if everyone thought the same!
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1. I've just taken this from www.Fiat.IT technical website. Yes Fiat thought of it and developed it as far as they knew how, then passed it to the Germans ie Bosch.
From Fiat comes the Unijet, a revolutionary new system for use in direct injection diesel engines, capable of enabling the performance and comfort of diesel propulsion systems to match that of petrol engines.
The Unijet, which was included only recently on a batch of vehicles specially designated for a sample selection of consumers, will, within a few months, be fitted to Fiat Auto's new models.
This state-of-the-art system, which is suitable for engines with various numbers of cylinders, was devised within the fiat Group and is based on the principle of the "common rail" injection system.
Three Fiat Group companies were involved in the various stages of design and development: Magneti Marelli, Elasis and Centro Ricerche Fiat which, in turn, registered a number of trademarks.
The Fiat Group then sold the ownership and marketing rights to German company Robert Bosch which handled the final development and industrialisation stages of the product.
2. No I would never touch Italian stuff again. I was badly burnt with their bikes and have had colleagues close to weeping over their cars.
3. Variety is the spice. Buy what you want. If someone asks me for help I try and save them from misery.
4. Common rail is not fitted to everything. About 22% of diesel cars have it, with the rest using pumpe deuse unit injectors or high pressure rotary pumps
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Sean- you wouldn't want ..... a Ferrari or a Bugatti or Lambo or an Alfa
Yes, a Ferrari or Lamborghini would be nice. But probably* less reliable than a Porsche.
Yes an Alfa would be nice, but probably* less reliable than a BMW or Lexus.
Similarly a Fiat would probably* be less reliable than a Toyota or Nissan.
(A Bugatti would be very nice, but Bugatti are French....)
* Probably means just what it says on the tin. The fact that someone's wife/daughter/sister/brother-in-law/rabbit had an OK Punto/Bravo/Cinq just proves that SOME Fiats are reliable
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..just to throw another spanner in the works..
I bought a 3 year old Regata estate from my Uncle and after a few years getting parts was becoming a nightmare. Even the Fiat dealership didn't list a distributor for it when I needed it. The car was only 6 years old for heavens sake! The only place I could get one was from the breaker's yard.
The only way I could help to ensure a ready supply of spares was to buy another one, so that's exactly what I did. It did seem a bit extreme to keep a 6 year old car going though but I only paid £25 for it.
Check this factor out as well. Don't talk to the salesmen but discuss this with the service managers at your local Fiat dealership.
Personally, if you like chic - try the Pug 206 or 207 or Citroen Saxo.
H
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I am not taking a pop here so please dont feel I am but i think buying a Cagiva Canyon and then basing that as a typical example of Italian bikes is hardly scientific. They were complete dogs from day one and we all pretty much knew that. I too am a professional engineer, have owned and indeed still do own Ducatis and have never had a moments bother with them either and quite frankly there is not a bike marque on the planet that i would consider replacing them with.
There are many many vehicles where engine removal is a pre requisite to change the clutch, so its a little unfair to single out FIAT in that respect. Indeed as I am sure you will agree, being a felow engineer, there is am awful lot of bad engineering examples in the car industry but there is a lot more than just technical considertaions that have to be considered when producing a car for market.
I would agree that the SEAT could be a good recomendation, I drive Skodas and would say that Hootie should look at a Fabia but perhaps her daughter may not be so keen on the image thing. In the same breath as i have stated before though, my mother has a Punto and it has been a great wee motor.
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