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I read a report on the rust problems with the 75 in one of the many motoring mags that I read, but unfortunately can`t remember which one. - The car was an early example, that had covered 70k miles, but had rusted areas at the bottom of all doors and the lower area of the boot.This was a one owner car from new, and the owner complained bitterly about this problem and definitely decided it would be his last Rover.!! With reference to Dizzy`s comments and his consideration to buy a 75, - with his background in engineering and appreciation for technical integrity, I find it hard to understand that he is even consideribg a Rover. A car is the sum of many parts and IMHO few manufactures on the market today can match the thoroughness and detailed engineering that is the hallmark of BMW. As someone mentioned on an earlier thread, they are run by engineers and not accountants, and their design specs are developed irrespective of cost.!!!!
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I would also like to add to my previous thread, that with the consolidation taking place throughout the motor industry worldwide, when it is your own hard earned cash going into your vehicle, one of the questions I considered, was how many less manufacturers will there be worldwide in 10 years time ??? I most certainly don`t wish to be alarmist, but think Rover are skating on thin ice, evidenced by the fact that nobody of any merit within the manufacturing world has rushed to merge or take over the company, except an unheard of outfit in India. If it was my hard earned cash involved in making this decision, the answer is not too difficult to conclude!!!!
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I can only speak from what I see. My friend, until recently had a BMW 330 Coupe. In two and half years (from new), the car had been returned to the dealer on numerous occasions. It went through three clutches and was returned to BMW for examination. The engineer decide it had a major fault, but couldn't identify it. As well as numerous electrical problems, the fault was never rectified. He eventually got fed up and has just bought a Mercedes SLK.
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Again, it seems that the two examples of corrosion cited are early Oxford-built cars, ie 1999. Has anyone come across evidence of a corrosion problem in Longbridge-built cars, those built from 2000 on? I'm aware of a problem with chrome pitting, but regard that as relatively minor, no more than the odd stone chip. I would be very concerned though if rust turned out to be an issue in the version I am considering.
andymc
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Dude
The Tata group has about Euro 9 billion in sales a year. Hardly an unknown company. If they really wanted to improve Rover they could pump in a lot more money than GM or Ford could.
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I cannot believe the piffle that people write about BMW. I do a certain amount of work for BMW (I am going over to Munich for a couple of weeks from July 12th on) and I know exactly how they operate.
The notion that the company is run by engineers and not accountants - and that the cars are designed without regard to cost is absolute and utter rubbish and betrays a lack of knowledge about how the modern motor industry operates. It is true that BMW is probably more engineering led than some VM's, but cost is very much #1 priority. If this were not the case then a 3-series would cost about £250k !!
There are about 7000 staff at the FIZ in Munich (Research and Innovation Centre) - about 80% of them are working on cost reduction. Much component production has been farmed out to lower cost areas such as eastern Germany and other East European countries. In fact the eastern Germans are on strike at the moment - arguing for parity with western workers - its starting to hit production.
The project I am working on is all about reducing new vehicle development time by elimiating the need to build so many prototypes and hence shorten development time and take costs down (I can't say more - but you can probably imagine the technologies employed...). All the other VM's are doing this too.
BMW's marketing in the UK is brilliant and they have managed to establish a reputation which far exceeds the reality. The UK is also, I believe, their most profitable market in terms of gross margin.
Most UK motoring journalists are gushing in their enthusiasm for the marque, for reasons I've never fully understood. This is not the case in BMW's homeland, where reviews are a little more measured and Japanese cars (so often denigrated by the UK motoring press) are receiving growing praise.
If you arrive at Munich station on the airport train you step out to the taxi rank in Arnulfstrasse - now, the Bavarians are fiercely patriotic, but you won't see many BMW's (maybe the odd 5-er estate). The taxi drivers drive MB's, Toyotas and Nissans. If you take a ride and chat to a driver he'll tell you that the BMW's don't last like the MB's and the Japanese. These guys expect a car to do 500k kilometres before major work.
Speak to any 'vehicle analysis' engineer in a European motor company (these are the guys that strip down competitor's cars to uncover their secrets) and you will find that they are all pulling the same cars apart - Lexus/Toyota, Infiniti/Nissan, Accura/Honda. Those cars are incredibly well designed and built.
I am not saying that BMW are not good cars - they are very good, as are many other brands, but don't swallow all the marketing hype and keep a sense of proportion.
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That's a very interesting post, Aprilia, very enlightening.
Hands up all those who knew that most of the BMW 3 series sold in this country are not actually made in Munich, but in the Republic of South Africa?
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This thing about rusty 75s, I wonder if it might have anything at all to do with the fact that around about the time BMW sold Rover they had airfields full of cars sitting around not being bought, and nothing to do with build quality problems as such?
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If you arrive at Munich station on the airport train you step out to the taxi rank in Arnulfstrasse - now, the Bavarians are fiercely patriotic, but you won't see many BMW's (maybe the odd 5-er estate). The taxi drivers drive MB's, Toyotas and Nissans. If you take a ride and chat to a driver he'll tell you that the BMW's don't last like the MB's and the Japanese. These guys expect a car to do 500k kilometres before major work.
Aprilia,
I think your comments about BMWs not being used as taxis in Munich misses the point. As a visitor myself to Munich in the course of my pre-retirement work (attending the European Patent Office, not BMW) I am aware that not many taxis there are BMWs, but then you don't see many Jaguars used as taxis in Coventry. MBs are basic transport in Germany, much like Fords in Britain, so you expect to see them as taxis!
I am about to move away from BMWs but I still rate them above MBs in almost all respects, the latter having degenerated over the past few years. MB have probably now overcome the awful build of the post-1994 E-Class but they still use agricultural 4-pot engines whereas BMW start the 5-Series range with a refined, smooth and powerful straight-six. Moving up the MB price range, it is possible to have a 6-cylinder but only in vee formation and quite a bit thirstier than BMW's offering.
If I was buying a car for taxi work in Germany, I might buy a Mercedes. Since I'm not, I won't. Sorry to criticise the make that you own and respect but I think I started to become biased against MB at the moment their silly parking brake pedal hit me on the shin when I released it at the start of a test drive!
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>>>The notion that the company is run by engineers and not accountants - and that the cars are designed without regard to cost is absolute and utter rubbish and betrays a lack of knowledge about how the modern motor industry operates. It is true that BMW is probably more engineering led than some VM's, but cost is very much #1 priority. If this were not the case then a 3-series would cost about £250k !!>>>
Of course manufacturers, in an extremely competitive market, have got to cost and budget every stage of manufacture and component sourcing, - that goes without question. My point was that, if BMW have got their priorities between technical and accountants inputs into their business so wrong, how come they were awarded the bronze manufacturers award in the J.D. Power survey for 2003, behind two world class Japanese manufacturers, namely Lexus and Toyota.!!
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Dude,
Thanks for responding to my question re: reports of rust on the Rover 75. Seems fair comment, now that you have explained where it came from, however I am pleased to read that this problem probably applied only to some very early cars.
Regarding my decision to order a Rover rather than a BMW; as I mentioned, I rate the E39 5-Series more highly than the Rover 75 but the diesel version (525d or 530d) with all the 'bits' that I'm about to get on my highly-discounted Rover 75 Connoisseur would cost around twice the price! Of course the 320d is a very good car and quite a lot less money than the 5-Series but, as I mentioned before, it's not the car for me.
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