My own suspicions are on the timing belt tensioner possibly allowing the belt to jump. They did send me a photo of the timing belt with the marks in alignment, which seems a bit like sending a photo of a golf ball in the hole and claiming a hole in one!

Regardless of the fault however, surely they have some responsibility when I took the car back to them after the service complaining of rough running and poor starting and they told me it was fine and "not a concern"

Don't understand the Unfortunately it's now too late to get a sample of oil for analysis and proof of diesel dilution.

I'd have thought that, to the (limited) extent that diesel dilution is relevant, it would tend to support the dealer's bs, but I don't THINK its absence would, of itself, disprove the dealers bs.

If there was enough unburned diesel in the combustion chamber to hydrolock the cylinder, there would be large amounts in the sump from ring blow-by too.

Also the dealer's theory that "one injector failed and the others have been over-compensating" is complete and utter nonsense. An injector failure would throw a fault code and a Check Engine / Emissions warning light, and the remaining working injectors would NOT over-compensate, as the injection system runs closed-loop.

If you don't get anywhere and they are a franchised dealer take it up with Jaguar.

Edited by elekie&a/c doctor on 01/01/2021 at 12:21

If 'several rocker arms are broken' it would seem that this engine is designed with so-called sacrificial rocker arms, so that in the event of a timing belt breaking or, as most likely happened here, being mis-placed by a cack-handed mechanic, there is hopefully little damage to the valves and pistons. There are bound to be marks on the piston crowns which would confirm the diagnosis. Depending upon the strength of the conrods, they might have bent, so when the head comes off check the pistons actually come up as far as they should.

Why they won't just hold their hands up and put the damage right is almost unbelievable.

I would say quite believable and possibly to be expected. The Russians have shown everyone for generations that when the finger points, deny blame until that is no longer an option. Many politicians ( I'm sure we can all think of some) do the same. In the end the truth will out if persistence lasts long enough.

What does Russia have to do with it?

You might have asked what politicians 'have to do with it'. It was a reflection on human nature, that's all - which I believe Russians also have, to some extent.

Your mistake was letting them dismantle the engine. You should have had it taken to an independant garage.

I think you might now be without a leg to stand on.

It's time to go legal - get a solicitor to remind them of their contractual obligations.

I agree. They probably intend to go on denying until it becomes too late for you to get anywhere. They may also have tampered with any evidence.

Edited by Andrew-T on 06/01/2021 at 09:40

Photos from the garage

https://ibb.co/kc26LnD

B1-2 - there are flat machined recesses in the piston top for the exhaust valves. It seems obvious there has been contact at the top left Ex V and marks are clear on the piston showing both inlet valves have hit the piston in Bore 1. The machined circular recess in the bottom face of the valve can be seen on the piston head for three out of the four valves (might need to zoom in). Bore 2, there seems to be a mark at the top right Inlet Valve.

https://ibb.co/bv59vwG

B2-3 Again the top right Inlet Valve seems to have left a mark on B2.

B3 - there are marks for both Inlet Valves in Bore 3 (RHS)

https://ibb.co/5BhYdBm

B3-4 Again in this photo there is a mark where the top right Inlet Valve has contacted the piston in Bore 3

In Bore 4, the top left Ex Valve seems to have also contacted the piston, since there is a circular machined recess in the bottom face of the valve, corresponding to the raised circle in the centre of the machined recess in the piston.

Despite having sent me these photos, the garage reiterated the rockers broke due to an overfuelling issue and is nothing to do with them changing the timing belt less than 50 miles previously.

Am I just clutching at straws or is it not obvious from the photos there has been piston valve contact?

Clearly a classic example of the human propensity to believe what it wants to believe despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. To accuse the garage's representative of 'delusion' might be going a bit far. Perhaps the word 'trumpery' is in need of a new meaning?

Thanks guys. I believe the timing belt tensioner has not been fitted correctly, allowing piston / valve contact. The 'master tech' who claims the belt and tensioner was perfect when he took off the cover, I suspect is covering for either himself or a colleague. If timing is correct, valves cannot touch pistons. The Service manager who admitted to me he 'is not technical' is blindly believing whatever nonsense the master tech is giving him. The master tech has dug himself into a hole and as you say, in a style Trump would be proud of, he will not admit he is wrong. I am getting to see the car this afternoon and will be taking plenty photos. If they have attempted to cover up or conceal that the job was botched in the first place this crosses the line from incompetence to fraud! Not what you would expect from a national dealership!

Edited by Tungstentrout on 08/01/2021 at 12:46

I still think it's worth taking this matter up with Jaguar

Absolutely, I agree. It is over three weeks of arguing with them and they just come up with the same ridiculous nonsense.

Had I just accepted their diagnosis I would be getting another bill well into the thousands to remedy what I believe is their mistake.

Apart from anything else, I took the car back to them telling them it wasn't running right and after keeping it in overnight they acknowledged it wasn't right and said "no cause for concern - book it in next week!" They must bear some liability for that alone. The car lasted another 8 miles after that!

It seems to me they are either incompetent or deliberately covering up their mistakes.

Either way, this is going direct to Jaguar.

Just a thought - if you paid for the service/belt change with a credit card, have you considered making a s.75 claim against the credit card company? Doing so may increase the pressure on the dealer. May even prompt the cc provider to commission an independent inspection.

Also, the provision of services is covered by CRA 2015, which requiews them to be carried out with reasonable care and skill.

Good point - will investigate, Thanks

Garage responded again claiming that if the timing was out or tensioner was set wrong the valve rockers on all 4 cylinders would be broken, not just on 3 of them, as if that proves their case.

When I suggested that the wet appearance of bores 1-3 was due to the engine being turned over on the starter with exhaust valves being stuck closed after the rockers broke, they rubbished this saying that bore 4 would be just as wet, despite all valves on bore 4 working properly.

To sum up they are still adamant the the sudden failure was due to overfuelling, not them changing the timing belt.

What puzzles me is that a diesel engine speed is controlled by how much fuel is injected.So if 3 cylinders suddenly overfuelled, surely the car should have been accelerating as if I had hit kick-down. Failure happened at constant 70mph on a dual carriageway!

They were trying to prove that the reason for the failure was not piston / valve contact but some completely unrelated over fueling issue. Despite the injector test showing they were fine and clear indications on the top of the pistons that the valves have hit the pistons, they still insist the failure is nothing to do with the timing belt replacement and want paid to carry out the repairs.

At least you're getting somewhere, well done for persisting. Vardys are just sulking with their "case can be built for both arguments" statement.

Well done for 'sticking to your guns' and getting it sorted. Goes to show cowboys are still operating in the business, even in so called premium brands and expect the customer to pay for their expensive mistakes.

Thanks for updating.

Excellent. Thanks for coming back to us. A salutary lesson that a big name fancy gin palace is no guarantee of competence.