Any - Cars that get the tin worm

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Sat 18 Aug 2018 11:07
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - barney100

I had Vauxhalls and Fiats in my early motoring days and found them very prone to rust. If you live in a dry climate then the problem isn't too bad but our weather is harsh on cars. For the last few years I've had Volvos and Mercedes. My Volvos have had no rot at all, 240, 740, 340, V70. The Mercedes c220 x2, CLK, SLK have been mostly ok apart from one c class which got tatty round the edges but to be fair Mercedes sorted it. Point is, is it better to buy from a Manufacturer based in a harsh climate, Sweden for example as they are more likely to withstand our climate? Just read the post on KIA's underbody rusting.

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Sat 18 Aug 2018 11:38
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - BMW Enthusiast

I don't think any modern cars suffer from rust problems nowadays. It would be very disappointing.

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Sat 18 Aug 2018 13:18
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Andrew-T

I don't think any modern cars suffer from rust problems nowadays. It would be very disappointing.

I seem to recall reports of fairly recent Fords having sills rusting behind plastic outer sections. Is this true?

When Peugeot introduced the 205 in the early 1980s they made a great thing of a 7-coat electrophoretic paint-dip process - I still have the publicity leaflet describing it. Those cars very rarely rusted unless damaged, though a few developed small spots in seams or beside areas of glass. Basically the problem was solved at the factory, and other makers did likewise. I suspect some may have resorted to corner-cutting. My 10-year-old 207 is not rusting AFAIK, maybe I should look more thoroughly. I may have got complacent ....

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Sat 18 Aug 2018 17:09
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - John F

I don't think any modern cars suffer from rust problems nowadays. It would be very disappointing.

I seem to recall reports of fairly recent Fords having sills rusting behind plastic outer sections. Is this true?

Yes. Depends what you mean by recent, but our X reg Focus failed its MoT for the first time in March last year because corrosion had invisibly crept along the rear bit of the sill and happened to be too close to the rear seat belt mounting.

When Peugeot introduced the 205 in the early 1980s they made a great thing of a 7-coat electrophoretic paint-dip process - I still have the publicity leaflet describing it. Those cars very rarely rusted unless damaged

I bought my two sons a brace of old 309s for a few hundred each - even when nearly 20yrs old not a speck of rust. Truly amazing - much better than our more modern Focus. Still a common sight in France.

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Sat 18 Aug 2018 12:20
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - corax

Point is, is it better to buy from a Manufacturer based in a harsh climate, Sweden for example as they are more likely to withstand our climate? Just read the post on KIA's underbody rusting.

I would just read up on the particular car that you want. Many manufacturers have had their duds, including Mercedes (90's anyone?), which you could say come from a fairly harsh winter climate. It's more down to quality control. French cars used to be terrible for rot until the manufacturers got their act together - now the bodies will not rust even if neglected, better than 90's and early noughties BMW's in this regard, they could get horribly scabby.

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Sat 18 Aug 2018 15:33
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - madf

Early Dacias were appalling (the Indian built ones).

Almost all makers have untreated subframes (where fitted) and minor steel brackets. these can and do rust. A 12 year old Lexus RX suffers as do Subarus at the rear and VX Safiras (Car Mechanics this month), early Minis (BMW) , Kas, Mazdaz have minimal rustproofing and Hyundai suffer.

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Sat 18 Aug 2018 19:14
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Manatee

If the MX-5 is anything to go by, then Mazda would be one to watch. There was very little protection on mine so I've had it treated with Dinitrol products.

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Sun 19 Aug 2018 14:17
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - groaver

If the MX-5 is anything to go by, then Mazda would be one to watch. There was very little protection on mine so I've had it treated with Dinitrol products.

I agree. Mazda still suspect.

SWMBO's Mazda 2 (61 plate) had a lot of under bonnet rust and lots of rusting chips on the roof.

Her 64 plate saloon is showing some signs of it as well in the boot.

It won't be another Mazda for us next.

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Sun 19 Aug 2018 19:08
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Engineer Andy

To be fair to the oriental makes (to a degree - they should've noticed by now and changed their designs/manufacturing processes to suit), they probably see this as less of a problem as their home markets don't see much in the way of snow (and therefore roads get salted far less, if at all - a major contrinutor to cars rusting in colder climes if they aren't regularly cleaned).

Its also quite well known that for years, many Japanese brands designed their cars to last (without serious issue structurally) only 7 years, the MX-5 being the most famous example. I wonder if that still continues, and perhaps is the main reason (other than their home climate) why some makes still scrimp on the weather/rust-proofing...

That being said, a large part of their sales ARE in colder climes and so they should have done something about it by now. My 12 Mazda3 is fairing reasonably well - a few spots here and there, but then it is a 12yo car (even if its only done 65k miles - its never been garaged). I note that other than Mazda (unsurprisingly) being mentioned, Honda hasn't.

One of the few things EU brands seem to have got (for the most part) right in terms of engineering quality, and perhaps something the oriental brands can learn from them.

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Sun 19 Aug 2018 21:13
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - SLO76
I read an interesting article in Car Mechanics a few years back on this subject. They did a spot of research (mostly skulking around scrap yards) and found the French, particularly Peugeot to be about the best for rust resistance in recent years along with Volvo. Honda and Toyota were well regarded but BMW and Mercedes were heavily criticised as were one of my favourites Mazda.

In my experience it’s usually electrical and mechanical failures that send French motors to the crusher but underside rot that kills Korean cars which rarely suffer catastrophic mechanical or electrical failures. On Japanese cars it’s often gearboxes but usually at big miles, many years and low value. I’ve sent a few part-ex Civics and Colts down the road due to noisy gearbox bearings.

If I were looking for a car to last as long as possible it would once have been a Volvo (I’m eyeballing used V70’s and XC60/90’s for myself) but today’s complex often hybrid models will be a nightmare at a decade or so. Possibly petrol Toyota or Honda would be the way to go for 20yrs upwards.

Further to this I was surprised by the amount of serious rot I found under my neighbours 07 plate Ford S-max the other day. It is crumbling but still looks good on the surface. It would be very easy for someone to buy this thinking they’ve bought a sound and solid car with years of life left when in fact it’s only round the corner from an end of life Mot failure.

Edited by SLO76 on 19/08/2018 at 21:19

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Sun 19 Aug 2018 21:23
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Engineer Andy

A local chap still runs his N (1996) reg Toyota Carina E which, all things considered, dowsn't look that bad as reagrds rust. Toyotas (except the GT86 at present and others in the past) might be boring, but they sure do last the test of time. Clarkson could even kill one (the white pick up truck on Top Gear), and he tried quite hard, if you recall...

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Fri 24 Aug 2018 21:51
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - notagoodname
Minor point - the pickup was red!
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Sun 19 Aug 2018 23:24
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Big John

I have seen rust in modern cards (I spot well in advance) but I think it's the luck of the draw depending on the metal used

My wife owned a 1984 Polo that was nearly rust free after nearly 19 years of ownership whereas my sister had a 1990 Polo that was killed by rust before the 1984 was sold on - I think it was about 11 years old then.

My wife then had a 1999 Punto for a while owned from just over three years old that whilst seemingly rust free to start with started showing signs of rust where suspension mounts where welded to the body . We didn’t own it long as my son used to be car sick in the rear due to its hard ride but I've noticed looking online it didn't last long failing it's MOT on structural rust around suspension mounts! However I know someone with a different age Punto and it's remarkably rust free.

We still have a 2001 Octavia in the family (bought new but now owned by my son) where rust wise the body is near perfect (rust is showing on suspension parts and thick sub frames tough) whereas my 2003 Superb whilst not rotten was showing signs of rust. I’ve also seen a later Octavia that has tin-worm!

PS Noticed quite a few rusty BMW's and Mercs on the road as of late

Edited by Big John on 19/08/2018 at 23:28

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Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:52
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - madf

Different factories have different facilities and different standards..

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Mon 20 Aug 2018 15:04
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Engineer Andy

Different factories have different facilities and different standards..

Plus some cars, i.e. unsold new ones, may sit for months in huge outdoor (exposed) car parks near seaside docks, and I'm sure all that salty sea air doesn't do them any good...

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Thu 23 Aug 2018 01:20
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Leif

Different factories have different facilities and different standards..

Plus some cars, i.e. unsold new ones, may sit for months in huge outdoor (exposed) car parks near seaside docks, and I'm sure all that salty sea air doesn't do them any good...

Many cars have long sea journeys. I’ve often wondered if the air inside the ship is filtered.

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Wed 22 Aug 2018 22:15
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Metropolis.

We can add Nissan to this list, especially the Nevara with its chassis that has a tendency to split in half. Even Toyota haven't been unscathed, recalling trucks in the USA not too long ago, although being Toyota their customer service was top notch, replacement frames and rust-proofing done at the dealerships.

Maybe Nissan will improve now, given they are basically Renaults?

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Thu 23 Aug 2018 07:50
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - madf

Spent two hours in our pit last year Derusting and Dinitrolling a friends 2004 VW Sharan at rear.. all paint stripped from rear floor pan and cross members. Still looks good this year said MOT Inspector.

I suspect most 14 year od cars are the same (Lexus SC430s have rust issues at that age as do RX300s and younger RX 400h and Subarus and Hondas and...X Type Jags )

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Thu 23 Aug 2018 17:10
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Engineer Andy

We can add Nissan to this list, especially the Nevara with its chassis that has a tendency to split in half. Even Toyota haven't been unscathed, recalling trucks in the USA not too long ago, although being Toyota their customer service was top notch, replacement frames and rust-proofing done at the dealerships.

Maybe Nissan will improve now, given they are basically Renaults?

Good question - my old 96N Micra had to be PXed (for my current 55 plate Mazda3) because it had just failed its MOT twice in two weeks, once on rust corrosion by the door sill near to the seat belt mounting point, requiring a new section to be welded on, then a rear brake cylinder failed, but the main problem (though not a failure item, an advisory) was the 'significant' corrosion of the front cross member.

Mechanically (other the the brake issue, which was fixed) and electrically, the car was fine, corrosion-wise, it wasn't. I checked back on the DVLA website not that long ago to see if the car was still going and it had been scrapped/taken off the road in 2011. I'm surprised it lasted that long.

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Thu 23 Aug 2018 20:47
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Leif
My L reg Nissan Micro suffered from rust, I think it lasted four or so more years after I sold it when 8 or 9 years old. Otherwise quite a solid little car, well designed and very functional, but hated by other drivers who saw its presence in front as an affront to their manhood.
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Thu 23 Aug 2018 23:02
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Engineer Andy

Almost identical to mine. I think other drivers didn't like them because they were (well, the 1.0 petrol) slow, though not as much as the Polo. Sometimes I think people felt sorry for me and let my car slip on in front of them on roads, which was something, unlike Audi and BMW drivers, who were shunned. I liked it and probably would've kept it had the rust issues not presented themselves. Dead easy to look after and did 52mpg average. I miss it when parking my (much bigger) Mazda3.

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Fri 24 Aug 2018 10:23
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - TheGentlemanThug

Speaking of the Mazda 3, my Dad had a 2006 model up until last year and then gave it to my Brother. When I saw him recently, I noticed quite a bit of rust bubbling underneath the paint in the OSF wheel arch.

A 2006 Focus I had for a short while suffered from the same thing. Luckily, it was just a courtesy car.

Edited by Bicycle_Repair_Man on 24/08/2018 at 10:25

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Fri 24 Aug 2018 11:57
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Engineer Andy

Speaking of the Mazda 3, my Dad had a 2006 model up until last year and then gave it to my Brother. When I saw him recently, I noticed quite a bit of rust bubbling underneath the paint in the OSF wheel arch.

A 2006 Focus I had for a short while suffered from the same thing. Luckily, it was just a courtesy car.

Probably the most common problem with the gen-1 car.

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Fri 24 Aug 2018 17:28
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - pd

I'm not sure we necessarily have anything to fear from hybrids.

Toyota's Prius drivetrain has proven to be arguable the most reliable drivetrain you can buy. There are abused examples out there with 300k on still going strong.

Other manufacturers may well prove much worse but I'd trust a high mileage 10 year old Prius over pretty much any other 10 year old high mileage car.

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Fri 24 Aug 2018 17:47
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Engineer Andy

I'm not sure we necessarily have anything to fear from hybrids.

Toyota's Prius drivetrain has proven to be arguable the most reliable drivetrain you can buy. There are abused examples out there with 300k on still going strong.

Other manufacturers may well prove much worse but I'd trust a high mileage 10 year old Prius over pretty much any other 10 year old high mileage car.

You're talking about the mechanicals and electrics, not the structure and body of the car. Most Priuses are used as taxicabs and thus will likely do a LOT of mileage for their age. A 300k car might only be 7-10 years old and thus any bodywork corrosion would be minimal. Still, I suspect, knowing Toyota's reputation generally, they'll do better on that score than most of the other Japanese makes.

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Fri 24 Aug 2018 20:35
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Ethan Edwards

Just wanted to mention to you guys Japan does get snow. Lots of it.

www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/03/02/national/stro...A

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Fri 24 Aug 2018 21:54
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - Ian_SW

They do get lots of snow, but don't use rock salt to clear it. I think they mostly use Glycol (as used to de-ice aeroplanes) to keep roads safe in near zero conditions, and just plough it off and use winter tyres in the soft dry powdery stuff you get when it's below about minus 10.

I think I've also read something about heated road surfaces, but I've no idea how common that is.

Returning to the cars part of the subject, I was surprised how much surface rust there was on the chassis of my 6year old Octavia when I had a look under it the other day. It's much worse than my previous (MK1) Octavia was when I got rid of it at about 9 years old, and noticeably more rusty than the metalwork supporting the tow bar. Plenty of other things are going to kill it long before it becomes a MOT failure for rust though. I doubt I'll get more than a couple of years more out of the engine given the amount of oil it's now using.

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Sat 25 Aug 2018 18:48
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - bazza

I noticed the same comparing my Mk2 to Mk 1, more surface rust underneath especially on the front, leading to siezed bolts. The cost cutting extended to the interior trim, which wore through on the seats too, a bit of a disappointment.

Our 10 reg Focus is showing signs of corrosion underneath rear wheelarches despite regular washing and yearly waxoyling. When I put a towbar on it, the removable rear crossmember was significantly rusty, enough to put me off having another one I feel. No such problems on our 14 year old Corolla!

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Sun 26 Aug 2018 20:42
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - argybargy

One wouldn't expect any modern car to rust, except maybe in the case of neglected or poorly repaired crash damage.

My 1990 vintage Nissan Primera remained rust free for nigh on 15 years, but developed a nasty rash on a rear wing which I'm pretty sure was caused by impact damage rather than structural failure. I'd been thinking of changing it for a while, a local garage having created an incurable oil leak from the previously bone dry engine after changing the timing chains. I gave them several chances to sort the leak out, but without success.

That small but irritating leak along with creeping rust persuaded me it was time to sell on the best car I ever owned, and that was a sad day.

Edited by argybargy on 26/08/2018 at 20:43

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Sat 22 Sep 2018 23:06
Any - Cars that get the tin worm - The Gingerous One

My 1995 Primera suffered rusting at the ends of the sills at 10 years old.

I had an XF and though the outer body panels were fine, the suspension cross members and suchlike underneath were healthly rusting away. I guess it would be another few years before whoever owns it finds the problem.

19 year old Rovers can rust but it can vary from car to car, with no rhyme or reason...

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