Just read that MG Rover are going on strike.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2934827.stm
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I'm not taking any sides but it's easy to see way there are no 'UK' car manufacturers.
'Them' and 'Us' still goes on!
Steve.
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Us =
>>One union official said workers felt "betrayed" because the 2.2% pay offer did not reflect the contribution they had made to MG Rover since it was bought three years ago from BMW.<<
Them =
>>The workers are angry at pay deals for MG Rover bosses, including a £500,000 payment to chief executive Kevin Howe.<<
I'm not suprised they're upset with this blatent example of corporate greed that's so prevelent these days.
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ato said:I'm not suprised they're upset with this blatent example of corporate greed that's so prevelent these days.
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I say : politics of greed and envy are on show again. The choice is simple, if you dont like the pay and conditions of either yourself or your boss, go and find another job.
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M.B. said:
>>I say : politics of greed and envy are on show again. The
>>choice is simple, if you dont like the pay and conditions of
>>either yourself or your boss, go and find another job.
It\'s not a question of \"greed and envy\" more a question of morals. Why should someone who does not perform in their position, many large corps spring to mind mainly in telco\'s and insurance, and yet the bosses get millions in bonuses and payrises whilst the workforce are fed peanuts. Now that\'s imoral!
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And, IMO, not good business sense. I don't believe that senior managers should be paid a pittance and sometimes a reduction in losses deserves a big bonus, but paying high salaries beyond the market rate with no link to performance demotivates the workforce and costs shareholders money.
I'm no left winger - cutting jobs deserves a reward as much as any other way of enhancing profits - but directors' performance impacts on the company so much that their pay has to be performance related even when other jobs don't need to be.
Yes, that justifies bigger rises for directors when the times are good, but also big pay cuts when the times aren't. And this isn't a comment on Rover, because I don't know anything about the situation to have an informed opinion.
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Tend to agree with you DavidHM.
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ato - just as you and I are free to choose which car we drive (motoring thread, Bentley like HRH the Q, or Lada as a lowly paid sweat-shop/ fast-food-worker/or-any-other-job-of your choosing), there is no question of morality here. What you describe is called a free capitalist society. If we all buy Rovers, there may be a few more pennies profit for the bosses to pass on to the workers.
ato - do you drive a Rover? My first 3 cars were a Triumphs, including a Dolomite Sprint; the last Rover I sold last year was in fact a Honda rebadged as a Rover, but no Rovers for me any more, and unlikely to ever do so.
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words fail me: at least we the taxpayers are not subsidising them:-)
madf
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Seems to me that Rover is still struggling to become a viable business entity and that some sacrifices on the part of all concerned in the enterprise are likely to be needed. In this context a £500,000 pay rise is less than diplomatic whatever the pragmatic arguments are with regard to attracting the best managers.
Likewise strikes are the last thing on earth that particular company needs given its past history.
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Pray tell me how going on strike is the right way to express "moral indignation"?
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I understand from a "friend" that Rover have just canned the rear drive 75 because someone "forgot" it was going to cost £3mil to convert the production line and Rover simply haven't got £3mil.
Seems to me £500k would have gone a long way towards this cost and would have reaped it's rewards in the future.
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>>Seems to me £500k would have gone a long way towards this cost and would have reaped it's rewards in the future.
Cyd - I would ask the following questions of myself:
1. How many of us would like to volunteer to give our services free to Rover?
2. Am I paid enough for the job I do? Do I want more? Do my colleagues think I am underpaid or overpaid?
3. If £500k is too much, what figure do you think is acceptable? Is kicking a football around the pitchfor a few hours a week (assuming you have possesion and are selected to play) worth £50,000 per week = £2.5million a year. As I said, this is all about the politics both of envy, and greed.
4. Is £500k saved by getting a "cheaper or free" MD going to save Rover?
5. Is Rover in trouble because it makes cars for which there are not enough buyers at the price?
6. Is that because Rovers are perceived to be of poor quality, cheap, too expensive, or because the workforce is paid too little or the boss is paid too much?
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In motor industry terms, £500k isn't very high. Probably amongst the lowest paid chief executives there is and it wasn't as if Kevin Howe was unemployed when he went to Rover.
Whether it's a justified salary or not (probably not) it's not MG Rover's problem. The problem is that nobody wants to buy their products and they haven't the funds and/or in house technical capabilities to develop something people want to buy.
The rear drive ZT is already a year late and I doubt £3m will make much difference. It's hardly a significant car in sales terms anyway.
I'd like to see MGR make it, but if the mid-sized car doesn't launch on time and on budget in early 2004 I can see the crunch coming. Nobody is buying the 25 & 45 and the 75/ZT only really seems to sell in the UK (it's a good car but European sales have dried up) so I suspect MGR would be quite happy if the production workers on the 25/45 went on strike for about a year.
It's a bit like when all the pilots of Sabena went on strike demanding more money the week before the airline went bust.
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Typical British unionism: bring back the 1970's - totally out of touch with reality. Maybe when the company starts building vehicles of decent enough quality so that enough people buy them in great enough numbers to make profits they can start calling the shots. Just maybe this guy is the one to help. If he does he's worth it. Meanwhile striking is really going to help, not.
If 500k is his total package that's not that great these days for a CEO who could be out of work at the next shareholder's meeting. Plenty of nondescript City bankers pull this down and more. Have these dinosaurs thought about how much it would take to attract a CEO to want to even risk getting a company like Rover on his resume? There's a market for senior execs y'know, lads No senior exec, no company, no earnings, no job to have a strike about. Now take your cloth caps off and get back to work.
If you don't like the deal good luck in your next career move.
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Typical British unionism: bring back the 1970's - totally out of touch with reality.
My sentiments exactly.
But what with (a) a firemen's strike; (b) Rover on strike; and (c) an incompetent labour government, it seems like the 70s!
What next? A 3-day week?
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It's not quite the 70s, the world has moved on; I seem to remember Rover were already going to build their small car with TATA in India. Industrial "action" now will only export jobs yet again.
Tomo
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Fascinating. We already build BMW and Merc for export to Uk, so we'll take Rover as well.
And the CEO could have a lot of fun in the sun -
difficult choice isn't it? "Would you like to live in Brum or Cape Town for the next 5 years?"
[there was talk of Jensen coming here once].
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I think its sad more than anything else that the Unions are still leading them by the nose into a pointless stand off with their management.
Most of the guys that I have know that work there realise that they are in a pretty precarious position and have been for a very long time. The last thing they need to do is remind people, and give them an excuse to go on about, their actions in the past and the terrible cars associated therewith.
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I think this is something that will be sorted out. It's not the first time in the last three years that there has been ballots for strike action. And any parallel's with the 1970s are definitely misplaced, the shopfloor is non-status based and working practices are completely different.
The problem has arisen not just out of Kevin Howe's pay but also the contract inequalities between Longbridge and Powertrain. Powertrain employees get 100% sick pay, Longbridge worker 75%. Also they are not happy with some production lines getting overtime (MG-TF is one) whilst others accrue time off in quiet periods instead. The pay deal is also not spectacular and the Kevin Howe payment is an irritant.
Also this 'friend' talking about the rear wheel 75/ZT is talking rubbish. It's cost a lot more than £3m to convert the floorpan to RWD and a new rear axle has had to be designed. If you compare it the re-design of the TF that cost £30m. Pre-production ZT285's have been seen out and about in Warwickshire and it is due to enter production late summer. The shortened RDX60 floorpan is also being designed to be FWD and RWD as well for the new 45 and ZS. This is in the hope of reducing the development costs over units sold. Rover has the money, it has good cash flow.
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I have to say that I side with the workforce on this one. IMHO I believe that the workforce have done wonders and need to be congratulated. A lot of good posts on this one, which discuss the benefits of pay to both workers and CEO's. I for one love Rover cars, IMHO I think they are very underated, certainly against Vauxhall and Ford, I just hope that this isnt a catalyst for the demise of Rover, that would be very bad for everyone. Long live Rover I say, lets hope that this is sorted amicably and quickly.
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BMDUBYA (BMW?) - So why is your sign in name not ROVER?
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A few weeks ago, I posed the question "Are Rover bodies now galvanised rust proofed ?" because my impression was that Rovers were probably the only cars that were still not protected in this way.
What is the truth? Are they galvanised or not? Are there any other manufacturers still stuck in the past in this way?
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What is the truth? Are they galvanised or not?
Are we talking about the workforce? They sound pretty galvanised to me...
Splodgeface
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FCS it's simple economics. Who ever heard of a Rover in Asia? No one, because the junk they make can't hold a candle to anything sold here. If they can't produce equivalent stuff, the company should go under by all the natural laws of evolution.
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All Rovers products have zinc coated panels and a high standard of rustproofing - have had for years, even the SD1 had some zinc coated panels. Unfortunately Honda forgot to design in coated panels to the 800/Legend so it went without until 1989 when they were gradually introduced through that year, hence early 800s rusting so fast you could almost watch them disintegrate (there were also problems with the paint mix up to 1989).
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I never saw a Rover, but somehow I heard Rover is a common name for a dog in England. Now Big G he can't stop laughing.
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All Rovers are zinc coated and Rover have been electostatically painted since 1963. One of the first manufacturers to introduce the paint system, patented in 1962. Zinc galvanization came in 1976 for the SD1 but only a certain number of panels. The 800 did not have galvanised doors or boot for some unknown reason same with the Metro. I haven't a clue why.
I recently had to replace the electic window catalever on the driver's door of my 600, it's seen a lot of action with getting my workpass into the car park gate reader. I had a good look inbetween the door skins. Bearing in mind it's a seven years old but not a bit of rust and the drain holes were fine.
The P6 is another matter ;) Always checked over, at it's 31 years old. Rust is a problem because they weren't designed to prevent it with plastic deflectors under wheel arches etc, etc. But that's when waxoyl comes into it own :) It's just come back indoors as I've been painting the stuff onto the underside for its yearly application taking advantage of the unseasonably warm weather. Apart from two aching shoulders, no rust for another year, not even the battery box which hangs through a cut out in the boot, even the outer sills were looking good and the seams on the panels. Oh yep, they were unbolted to have a closer look last week. I need some new shims though, they are only a couple of years old and they are ....... rusting.
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