Well then, I guess we are not alone!
I ignored it, thought the slight leak was some hose where those lousy OEM factory clips not put on properly. Thought it was strange no sign of coolant going anywhere...that using the telltale signs of the aluminium 'frosting' or dried out deposits of coolant, showed nothing.
Sadly, your view and the valuable contributions of this Honest John column, now give me that sinking feeling coolant is being burned up or evaporated disappearing via the exhaust.
No sign of emulsified oil.
I looked it up only now because it has taken three years for it to suddenly go from being a litre of Renault coolant per annum, to the entire reservoir disappearing from the last time i checked, about a month ago.
It's patently worsening, and I would put money it is the cause of performance seeming variable under acceleration, and what I retrospectively realise is more steam than usual, emerging from the exhaust.
It is my spouse's car, and other than this, it is brilliant. This was a big investment for us, and to be blunt, if we needed proof an electric vehicle is the sensible option, this is likely it, although we cannot afford one that matches the distance driving of this ICE car.
Now I wish we had got the diesel, they use different blocks and heads and are four cylinders.
I am too old and experienced to get livid about it, but I simply must roast Renault over a spit if they prove unhelpful.
It is not our fault, any notification to the dealer etc would have been fobbed off which is why I did not do anything before it got serious. Not my first rodeo.
Spouse will be upset, women get quite attached to their cars, that's what will get me going, her hard earned money down the toilet if Renault or the dealer try to slug it out.
First step, get a quote froma trusted mechanic, for the likely stripdown, if it comes to it. Armed with that, truncheon Renault dealership and write to Renault UK.
Hacks me off, because it is like saying 'write to your MP'. You say that for a laugh.
Best to all and thanks to Honest John for the forum and this opportunity to share.
Ian Margetts
Cleckheaton.
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Ian - you have our synmpatghy but your position depends very much on how old your car is and when you bought it. All we know so far is that it's a petrol Renault.
It's a pity nthat the original poster from 2017 never came back and told us the outcome.
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Ok, sorry, yeah, my wife bought her Clio mk 4 as I refer to it, in 2015.
She bought it brand new, and we had several discussions with the dealer about when it would arrive, as wife paid a large deposit and the rest cash - large part of hard earned working life savings - and I recall deposit paid around feb or march 2015 but took until may or something for them to get the car to us.
A car they said they already had, or we thought they did. Turned out they had to go across the pennines, bring it from Bolton or similar back to us near Huddersfield, whereupon I expressed concern it had nearly a hundred miles on the clock.
After a discussion they got nice and technical during and where they finally blurted out anywhere under 500 miles was 'new' as far as they were concerned (!) Wife got car.
There was a panel out of true I noticed after a couple of months while washing it and made a mental note NOT to bother wife with this minor deviation from perfection. Her happiness is more important than a perfect world order!
It has honestly been really great, but there have been occasions where i put the foot down like once to show my brother how good it was, and it felt 'flat'.
Hearing the issue of coolant disappearing, makes me think of a car I had where it appeared inside the engine cover, emerging and crystallising when that VW's cylinder head gasket went at 200,000 miles. Power loss occurred, and also internal heater leaked...pressure created by the gas exiting into cooling system was to much. Blew out past pipes connections.
This seems like a recall that simply hasn't happened, no?! They must have thousands of cars out there, where owners haven't noticed or are just lving with it...maybe dealers getting servicing contracts for three years like wife did with ours, the dealers quietly top up and say nothing.
To balance and for context, we still have wife's first new car, an ex demonstrator Clio mk 2, year 2000. Bar none, including the venerable VW passat of 1999 vintage this Clio 2 is the most reliable car we have ever had. Now on 131,000 miles, I did the cam belt a year or so ago, yes it took me a week stop laughing at the back, and we had the clutch done around 95,000 miles, and I did the sunroof leak fix, and also replaced the two rear door locks.
These small things were fixed with internat assistance, as it were, and so were much less than they might have been. The only other issue I can think of, is the remote key unlocking stopped around 12 years into ownership. I know a little tech and have deduced it is the backup battery behind the glovebox in some electronics compartment. Sometimes, if i accidentally squash the keyfob as squeezing out door in a car park slot, the car locks even now. It is the backup battery. After driving, holds a tiny charge, works for three seconds remembering the keyfovb number code, then dies again!
So, Renault, how about admitting how many cars of the clio 4 Tce type, three cylinder turbo, have this issue worldwide?!
Lastly, there was only one recall for the clio 2, for a bonnet catch. Ours did not pop up at motorway speeds or ever, and nothing needed done, because i regularly lubed the catch i assume. But others were caught out.
Does make me think, they recall when it pleases them, and don't when it doesn't. This is the recall that hasn't yet happened, I am certain of it.
Not sure what to do, because it is the hardest issue to pin down being not quite constant or debilitating yet. Poss show to trusted mechanic in next town, get a quote as if to do whole head gasket job, give that quote to dealer and renault, see response?
Renault make some great stuff, and if they would be above board on this, I could still trust them.
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It could be an airlock pressuring up and pushing water out?
WIth the engine cold take the radiator cap off, and run the engine for about 10- 15 minutes, until the water is circulating normally then stop,shut down, and check the water level. Top up if necessary.
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UPDATE - but first the airlock suggestion...No chance. The cap is screwed tight, and the engine is literally disposing of water at a variable rate up to a litre a week. I stopped using coolant, it became too expensive.
The new information I have is two-fold, that I did not have back in February 2019:
ONE - Asked the best mechanic I know, what is the assessment. He replied perfectly reasonably after a short exchange, really he needs it in to look it over, etc. I view that as the beginning of costs. So, that’s a critical point. Back to this later...
TWO - Cylinder head tightening isn’t what it used to be! Look, please don’t laugh when I tell you what I have discovered, is the bolt tightening sequence for these engines...I checked the dates on the material I obtained because I thought it must be April fool’s day, here it is, I paraphrase:
1 - Tighten bolts in the sequence given, to X torque.
2 - Go have some Chocolat et croissant - ok it actually said wait a few minutes
3 - Massage the head bolts with an even blend of creme de menthe and Napoleon brandy, for approximately 30 seconds, while looking askance at a photograph of Monsieur Macron and saying a prayer for the Notre Dame - you must be facing Sud at the time. Ok this one is made up.
4 - Tighten to X torque now, plus half a turn, after waiting the requisite amount of time.
Look, I make a mockery of this, but I cannot see thi complicated procedure being followed to the letter, by every shop floor worker that assembles these engines, on every occasion. It’s far too finicky. I am used to tightening in a certain sequence, and maybe yes, having got the correct torque, applying a quarter turn more or something. But this, waiting and so on, no way that always happens.
It suggests to me, these cylinder heads have become very prone to warping or at least distorting, and hence the complicated procedures. Other engines are similarly particular in their tightening-up, that I have seen the handbooks for.
Everything, points to either a design flaw/weakness, and/or an assembly failure to obey this rather fanciful procedure. It’s such a s*d of a problem to have, the manufacturer, the dealer, everyone can argue until the cows come home, about how you basically have failed to prove conclusively this party or that party is to blame.
I know who is not to blame - the hapless owner that was meticulous about putting it in for service, and kept a close eye on the coolant, oil, air etc situations.
In a nutshell, this problem has crept over us. In the beginning it is too slight for the dealer to take seriously, and by the time it is swallowing a litre per week, it’s out of warranty.
I couldn’t have done any more than I did. I wouldn’t take it to the dealer, because I don’t live on Mars. In this world you need to have a strong case, to get something fixed. My first horror thought was I hope it’s not the cylinder head/gasket.
Bottom line - if it was an easy fix, it wouldn’t be in these pages. If it’s a hard one, and as common as I believe, the dealers have circulated the info, and know the avoidance and delay tactics.
They maybe make a grand on these cars. Slightly more if you buy servicing or whatever.
It does not say to me not to buy Renault - it says to me that electric cars are long overdue. We almost bought one in 2015. We almost bought the diesel version of this Clio mk 4. Woulda coulda shoulda.
My pressing question now is, how to extract from the vexed situation. All the options are unpalatable. You buy a new car to avoid problems. We were sold an inherently flawed vehicle, and proving it is in practical terms impossible without spending more money than the thing is worth. You can’t play one lot of mechanics against the other - they usually won’t play that game.
I could whip off the top of the engine, the covers, and just guess-tighten the head a bit more. I could advise the wife to flog the car to some unsuspecting buyer. We could take it to the dealer and start the whole business off in that direction - it will begin with them needing the car, and as I can’t trust them, I doubt that will make me comfortable.
Lastly, give it to my trusted competent mechanic. Great. If it is the cylinder head, it’s a grand before you have your first tea-break.
We don’t want to flog somebody else our problems. We don’t want to be minus our car for an indefinite period. We don’t want to sign up for a non-specific cost that begins with the engine being dismantled, even if we do trust the garage doing it.
It’s absolutely wretched, this situation. I haven’t even covered all the options, because the ones I left out are even more undignified, risky, and repulsively lacking in integrity, from those already detailed.
My solution to 80% of the problems of the bulk of present cars, is to buy an EV. I think any other solution, is a stop-gap until that one is implemented. I really won’t be unhappy if the problems are relegated to software glitches and chassis/suspension/running gear repairs. Even the battery issues, are largely negated, if you buy an EV with liquid-cooling of the pack.
All the radiators go, all the engine problems go, virtually no transmission to speak of, you’ve even got secondary brakes by engine braking, should you have brake failure. If lorries were electric, all those accidents where the brakes fail, would never have happened, because in an EV the physical friction brakes are hardly ever used, when engine braking is properly implemented.
No, these things are museum pieces as far as I am concerned. I just want to offload the lot, and go EV. I am too old to find the allure of vibration and a screaming engine take precedent over practicalities! I will write all these unpalatable options down I think, and assign them the numbers one to six, then throw a die for it...
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