What do readers of this board think about** the pfd who are so fashionable that they have to drive around with their foglights on at night, especially when it is not even slightly foggy?
I saw one recently who came up behind me at traffic lights with his ever-so fashionable foglamps lit (no headlights, just the fogs). A police car, coming the other way stopped at the lights, pfd then switched his Oh-so-fashionable fog lights off and his headlights on. When the lights changed and the police car passed us by, pfd, then switched his headlights off and his Oh-so-fashionable foglights back on again.
Is it just me, or are there lots of these people about and what (if anything) do the officers of the law do about it?
** about the same that I think of people who cannot write a note without bad language. Mark.
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This chap had obviously been nicked for having his foglights on when visibility was greater than 100 metres, hence his reaction to cop car. I think the young \'cruisers\' are aware of the illegality but do it anyway because it\'s the thing to do. A lot of other people just think that the more lights you have on the safer you are and are oblivious to the law or common sense.
What amazes me is that so many people do this and some of them must read comments like this but never write in to say \'\'I always have my fogs on because I\'m a pfd/don\'t care/think it looks good/think it\'s safer/didn\'t know it was illegal/etc.\'\'
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If there's no chance that I'm going to dazzle another road user, or cause someone to misinterpret, I'll flash my (very bright) full beam at them for a couple of seconds. Childish, I know but it kind of makes me feel better.
Never rub another man's rhubarb.
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If I'm driving along and someone has their foglights on behind me I'll switch my rear foglights on as well. At least we can both annoy each other.
Again, childish, but it kind of makes me feel better.
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I've just switched over from the BMWland forum where a similar thread is on the go, again without a single posting in favour of the use of foglights other than in fog.
I'm sure that none of us Backroomers are immature enough to run with foglights glaring ...
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Actually, on a fairly twisty dual carriageway A road last night, I did have my fog lights on (no fog) briefly, because there were no cats' eyes and visibility wasn't good but the traffic was flowing quite quickly.
My lights are adjusted so they only make a difference downwards, and when there was any traffic near me, I switched them off but did have them on for a few moments, because visibility was less than great although there was no actual fog.
As for driving without headlights, but with fogs... I've never seen that. Perhaps the pfd's car had an electrical fault (seriously) and the guy was either too stupid to notice or to lazy to care.
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>>As for driving without headlights, but with fogs...
There are loads of kiddies doing that around the Watford and Coventry areas. Completely daft, but then when I was a kid I thought stick-on/bolt-on flared wheel arches were cool.
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Often see fogs/no heads in London too.
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Often see fogs/no heads in London too.
The drivers have no brain, only fog up there!
James
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One idiot on the motorway on Friday afternoon (lashing down rain like stair rods) when visibilty was pretty dire thought it was ok to put his/her back fog light on but to still drive at a ridiculous speed for the conditions (I'd say well above the legal 70mph)
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should that have been stir rods? hmm?
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Ah, but they were safe, because everybody could see that they were being a complete idiot...(?!)
Never rub another man\'s rhubarb.
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And, no, you were right the first time.
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This fog lamp habit drives me mad. I always flash my headlamps at them. Trouble is it seems to about 1 in 5 drivers use their fog lamps and it is not all kids. I suppose since it denotes a higher speced car they want to tell us they have a GTI, GLS or whatever.
I tried using them and found the wider area of light distracting.
Peter
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Can we just clarify whether we mean "foglights" or "driving lights"? This confuses me everytime this subject crops up - and there's a difference between the two in use and effect.
> ever-so fashionable foglamps lit (no headlights, just the fogs)
Surely you can't have foglights on without headlights on: well, in all the cars I've ever owned you couln't.
Or am I missing something in all this?
Carole
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Carole - the previous owner of my Granada added some front foglamps which can be operated independently of the headlamps. I never use them (foglamps) but they're a damned nuisance because I can knock the switch without realising and inadvertently leave them on all night with predictable results!
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Can we just clarify whether we mean "foglights" or "driving lights"?
Front fogs should only be used when visibility is less than 100m. They will only work if the headlights or - in most cars I know - sidelights are on. The switch has a symbol that is a D shape next to diagonal lines with a wavy vertical line through. The lights are usually mounted in the bumper.
These are the lights that we all object to being misused!
As far as I'm aware, driving lights are generally a supplement to full beam headlights. They usually only work with full beam switched on. They are usually mounted near the normal headlights (BMWs are an obvious example with their twin lamps).
James
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One thing I find difficult to adjust to my H4 highlight is the lost of dipped when switched to full beam. This creates a dark area close to me which I am not completely comfortable with when driving on twisty B/C-roads. So now I switch the fog on with the full beam. When there is traffic then I switch both off.
My preious Sierra and Mondeo have 2 pairs of H1 and the dipped stays on when the is full beam switched on. I think that's definitely a better arrangement.
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James: thanks for that, but actually I know what the difference is. When I said "clarifying what we mean" it was because I'm not sure that when people are irritated by fog light misuse, that it really is foglight use they're complaining about. It's quite common to see cars with those "extra" lights on, and they're driving lights. And it is irritating to see them on under those circumstances: I would only really expect people to use them on dark unlit country roads, for example. I've hardly ever used mine: and when I did, it was on.....a dark unlit country road.
Hope this throws some light on what I meant.....
Carole
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Carole, sorry I didn't get the right gist of the question. Part of the foglight problem comes from people calling foglights driving lights and thinking it's okay to drive with them on all the time.
It's rare for cars to have driving lights that aren't wired into the full beam circuit. Whether driving lights are fitted or not the problem would be failing to dip headlights - is this what you mean?
On an individual car, that problem is indeed worse. Oncoming cars using foglights might cause a bit of dazzle but full beam can make it quite difficult to see. However, most people are quite disciplined with full beam so the numbers of those abusing foglights are much greater, giving more to grumble about.
My late grandad never used to use full beam, even on dark unlit country roads. When we questioned this, it turned out my non-driving grandma had told him off for flicking the beam up and down all the time!
James
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It's rare for cars to have driving lights that aren't wired into the full beam circuit.
Didn't driving lights go out with the XR3i ? Round here, proper driving lights are about as rare as rocking-horse dung. Fog lights.......now that's a different story !!
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Snail - there are still plenty of 205 GTis around (and lookalikes such as Dturbos) with standard driving lamps which come on with main beam. No front fogs though.
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To be effective a foglight should point downwards, to light the immediate area in front of the vehicle, so no glare. If a foglight is causing a glare then it must be badly aligned.
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To be effective a foglight should point downwards, to light the immediate area in front of the vehicle, so no glare. If a foglight is causing a glare then it must be badly aligned.
Not necessarily so. A front foglight even if correctly set will still cause glare if the road surface is wet. The downward light will simply reflect back up. Personally I just hit the high beam moments before passing one another, thus not giving baseball cap wearing moron the chance to do the same back to me. He who dazzles me will get the same back.
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On the button, dougr1! I have fogs (standard issue) on a new car and assuming they are installed correctly, they would only be useful at speeds of about 10mph, in a pea-souper! So far, even in the murky conditions in January, no use at all. The pool of light they give off extends just a few feet ahead of the car. To reach further they'd have to be reset to aim higher. I suspect this (plus higher wattage bulbs) is what has been carried out in many cases, causing dazzle. Meanwhile, Mr Traffic Plod is bogged down with paperwork, so can't pay attention to the low-life.
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Absolutely right.
Foglights are deliberately aimed low, so as not to bounce off the mist as normal headlights do . They illuminate a short forward area low down, and so are of little help in normal driving.
The overwhelming majority of people doing this ( and it's getting worse) are using foglights. it is illegal for them to be wired to come on with "sidelights " but clearly some people have actually spent money having their wiring changed to produce this effect .As a result, with foglights and sidelights on they have a very short forward illumination.
As far as I understand it, only headlights and/or driving lights are legal in OK visibilty on a moving vehicle . You just watch at twilight how many cars run on sidelights alone.
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Some cars used to have timers in the heated rear window circuit so that the heater went off after about 10 minutes. It would be good to have these on front fog lights, using them for than XX minutes would require a concious effort to switch them on again. I have to say that a lot of people with foglights on seem to be ladies who perhaps don't know that they are on (Don't recognise the warning light in the dash) and/or don't know how to switch them off (Info in the handbook!).
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They should automatically reset with the ignition, if they switched off after xx minutes you'd be concentrating on your fogs and not on your driving.
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Um (ahem) I sometimes use my foglights at night in good visability. Where I live (deepest rural norfolk) the narrow and unlit country roads can be difficult at night. The consequences of running just off the edge of the road can be nasty. Foglights illuminate down and out to the sides, and light up the edge of the road very efficiently, making it much safer. I do try and switch them off for uncoming traffic.
P.s, am I the only backroomer who grows bored with these continuous foglight threads?
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I have the same with a narrow, unlit road by me, the fogs fill in the area immediately in front of the car.
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Re the arguments that driving with foglights on helps in non-foggy conditions...
If they are fitted properly they will be low on the car and tilted downwards , so as not to bounce off fog .If fitted any other way they can't do what they are made for .So if fitted correctly they will, at best ,provide light for about 40 metres immediately in front of you..
If you are driving at 60mph you will cover that distance in about a second. If you can react that quickly to something they pick up, you are something special. Your dip/main beams are illuminating the area you will be in within 2-4 seconds, that's why you are taught to read the road ahead.
So, foglights don't help you, probably distract you in fact , and they certainly p*** off the vast majority of other drivers.Please stop it .
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The road I'm talking about you'd be in the hedge if you drove at 30, never mind 60, and it's deeply rutted and potholed at the edge as there is no pavement. I find the fogs fill in the area close to the front, and help define what's a pothole and what's a shadow.
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Joe, I have to agree, not much new stuff here.
Reminds me of the time years ago when I heard of a high level meeting to discuss various capital expenditure proposals. The complex projects were passed virtually on the nod, but the plan to build new bike sheds (I told you it was years ago!)took an hour. The reason: not many people could discuss the complex projects, but everbody had an opinion about bike sheds.
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This is a habit that really irritates me. Recently I have taken to flashing my fog lights and sounding the horn (when there's no-one else around). Half the time the idiots don't even realise what they're doing wrong (Judging by their moronic expressions).
It's worth pointing out that the advertisers aren't exactly helping when the adverts for their new models are shown driving around in broad daylight fully illuminated fog lights and all!!!
I realise most people won't be influenced by this but I have been keeping an eye on the guilty parties that I am passing and it's not just boy racer types.
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I had a SAAB behind me this morning with both headlights and foglights on in broad daylight, I think it was to intimidate everyone to get out of his way.
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I had a SAAB behind me this morning with both headlights and foglights on in broad daylight, I think it was to intimidate everyone to get out of his way.
This is exactly what I think about motorcyclists who drive with main beam (yes, main beam not dipped) headlights on in broad daylight.
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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doing my bike theory test soon, and saw a question about this, can't remember it completely but with street lights less than n metres apart you can drive without lights, they say you learn something everyday, not that thats that much use,
i agree with the fogs wired in to a timer, but have a soft reset switch so when the car stops they wont come on again automatically,
why is it normally ford fiestas with broken brake lights who seem to have the rear fog lights on as soon as they see a waft of smoke?
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it is illegal for them to be wired to come on with "sidelights" but clearly some people have actually spent money having their wiring changed to produce this effect.
Er, no. Vauxhall have wired them this way for years, as well as many other car manufacturers doing the same.
Sometimes in really dense fog it is easier to see where you're going with just sidelights and fog lights only. Switching on the dipped headlights as well can make visibility worse. That is why you are able to switch fogs on with just sidelights.
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I observed the use of front fogs on the way home from work the other day. In 80 minutes I saw about 15 cars with fogs on, and I think, without exception, they were showing fogs and side lights only, so they were obviously put on by the drivers purposefully, rather than left on by accident.
Oh well, small things keep small brains amused.....
Richard
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I really don't care whether people drive with foglights on or not. If it helps them not to crash into me then that is OK with me.
I find foggies much easier on the eye than Xenons (and motorbikes in the day).
As to people flashing other drivers who are using their fosgs, what is the point. (a) If you dazzle him there is more chance of being involved in an accident (b) why wind someone up. If someone flashes me when I am driving I honestly don't care as I have other things to worry about.
Also as Joe says, this thread seems to go on and on and on.....
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I wish I could adopt the same attitude. In daylight - fair enough since it doesn't affect my vision. However, night driving with cars coming towards you with fogs on is almost as bad as them not dipping their full beams.
Anyway, you're probably right it's just another bad habit that seems to be demonstrated by the majority of drivers out there.
On a completely different topic I have experienced two separate road rage incidents. One yesterday and another today. The most recent was from a paramedic (not in his ambulance) at a petrol station. I've discovered that the most effective way to deal with these nutters is to be as patronising and at the same time 'friendly' as possible - it seems to really confuse them!(lol)
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Sorry, but I don't agree. I had two idiots follow me home last night with there front fogs, there'd be quick to complain if I was driving with my rears on. This may be a generalisation but it always seems to be people who have cars that aren't quite as good as they used to be. This means you, the moran in Buckingham last night with the knackered old XR4i!
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