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As the car is over 5 years old and some 2 years out of warranty, what did you expect VW to do ? You can't reasonably expect them to replace the engine at their expense or offer a contribution towards it can you ! What car manufacturer would ?
Any car can have a catastrophic failure and no matter where and how often it was serviced, there is always the chance something can go wrong, the blame cannot be laid at anyone's door, it's just one of those things.
You could try writing to VW's head office with as much info you have about the failure and include copies of the service history, invoices etc, see if your motor insurance covers for this kind of occurance, or just have to stump up the cost yourself ?
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I suppose because it has only done 35k I wanted some goodwill for that. After all it has only done the mileage of a three year old car. I have been reading that this car in particular has this problem and be has admitted that...I wondered if anyone else has had this problem with as little mileage as mine??
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I too have looked into this fault on the net and have also seen reports that VW has supposedly admitted blame, but unfortunately I can't find exactly where they state it.
A lot of posts in forums state that VW have given large goodwill gestures towards this problem but, some of them are a year or so old, so the cars would have been younger and not as far out of warranty as yours is.
Like I suggested, write to VW explaining what's happened and point out the masses of similar if not identical chain failiures and their outcomes that have been posted. It would help if you could get the service manager from your VW dealership on your side as he/she could send a report/request through to VW HQ and try for goodwill ?
At the end of the day, it's in the dealers best interest to 'get the job' as they will still be paid by VW for it and hopefully, you won't be out of pocket too much ?
Good luck.
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VW have or are recalling 2.5million cars with 1,2 and 1,4 engines to refit the timing chain as the original had a manufacturing fault, whether yours is to old or is part of this recall I don´t know I would check with VW head office or on a VW web site.
I have been accused on this forum tor being anti VAG but I hear nothing but problems with their products and in extremely large numbers.I would also search this site as I put the original recall from VW regarding this problem.
Edited by Collos25 on 04/01/2014 at 08:06
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I have been accused on this forum tor being anti VAG
But you are anti VAG. We have had 5 VAG cars over the years and like all cars they do have issues but our have been very minor (other than a gearbox after 110,000 miles).
Compared to Ford who deny everthing after 1 year they are angels.
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2.5 million cars in one recall pretty amazing and thats just a timing chain people have different perceptions we had a fleet of VAG vehicles in Germany absolutely nothing but problems they were replaced with Ford no problems.Now I am retired I personnaly prefer PSA cars and petrol ones.
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Thanks for your help, I will let you know how I get on.
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"As the car is over 5 years old and some 2 years out of warranty, what did you expect VW to do ? You can't reasonably expect them to replace the engine at their expense or offer a contribution towards it can you ! What car manufacturer would ?"
Due to a known fault, but not widely causing problems, Honda have just replaced the entire aircon pipework and radiator on a friend's Jazz which is outside warranty. He was withoit the car for two weeks, but there were no issues as a courtesy car was provided. He didn't have to fight, or argue, or go to head office.
Some companies have a 'look after the customer' philosophy, some have a 'look after the profit' philosophy. Those in the latter can't see that looking after the customer helps to look after the profit.
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So...the saga continues. Engine has been totally taken apart and yes, both top and bottom parts of the engine are damaged. The garage have quoted me £6k to put a new engine in with a £2k goodwill gesture from VW.
What should I do? Scrap it?
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Thats a lot of money to spend on a car of that age/value. I once replaced an engine on a car, and regretted it. It would have been much easier and cost effective to buy a different car, and sell the damaged one on ebay.
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There are e bay sites offering supply and fit 1.4 tsi replacements for thousands less than that. Then get shot as soon as, if i were you.
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they will only buy if off me for £500, ive looked on autotrader and the same car with same mileage is selling for £7500. Maybe I should get the new engine then sell it privately?
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You don't mention when you bought the car. If it was less than 6 months you may have rights under the SOGA.
Mark
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I've just had the same problem with my 09 TSI GT (55k on the clock, full vw service history) The authorised VW dealer is coming back to me with a full cost of engine replacement tomorrow although I expect it to be in the same region.
I'm thinking of giving VW a call - any hints on how best to approach the conversation given the £2k goodwill you managed to get out of them?
Thanks in advance - appreciated!
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Hi Collos25. You seem to know a lot about this so issue and we Ned your help, please. Our VW Sharan 1.4TSI has just come up with a cam shaft sensor fault and the Vw garage is in the throes of trying to identify the fault. It looks like it's the timing chain or belt. They tell me there have been no reported problems by VW about this but you seem to know otherwise. Has there been a recall?
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You could say it was one of those things but if the OEM admits that they had a faulty design they should repair regardless of in warranty or out.
My friend bought a Toyota Rav4 from a toyota dealership which was already 5 years old, he had it serviced by a mechanic mate for 2 years and when the head gasket went and he took it back to main dealer they said that they have a known problem with this engine type regarding cracks in the coolant system which damages the engine. They replaced his engine for free, he didn't even need to complain. This car was 7 years old and not touched by a proper toyota mechanic for at least 2. Now that is customer care......
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Disagree. I have had a VW engine replacement after 17k miles on a Golf TSI 07...and a timing chain replacement last year after 40k miles...and now issues with timing chain again. If before buying a car, you knew there was a chance an engine would last 40k miles then have to possiby replace an engine noone would ever buy a car. This happens too much with VW considering they advetise their reliability etc.....they should be liable up to to x miles....and x = 100k in my opinion.
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I disagree that Toyota are helpful...my 3.5 year old avensis had head gasket problems but as it was just outside the VIN range I was told 'tough'. Glad to say I've just got shot of it for a 10 month old Kia Ce'ed SW - and as the car was pre owned by Kia themselves they are giving me 7 years warranty after the first year!!! I get all the benefits of a new car at a a used price. Best decision I ever made - the car is smooth, comfortable and economical. I now have 7 years of worry free motoring ahead of me. So stuff you Toyota and your crap customer service - you've lost a customer forever - in fact one of my work colleagues was so impressed with the deal I got, he's gone and bought a Kia Ce'ed SW too from the same garage!!!
Theses are the views of Robin the Technician - I fix, therefore I am
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I disagree that Toyota are helpful...
At last! Someone else who has had the came crappy customer experience from toyota as me! You can't crack the toyota halo on this forum though....
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I disagree that Toyota are helpful...
At last! Someone else who has had the came crappy customer experience from toyota as me! You can't crack the toyota halo on this forum though....
Dealers vary, even 'good' manufacturers can be let down by a poor dealer (just as some makes with a bad reputation may have some outstandingly good dealers).
Toyota's reputation is based on overall perception, the way they admit faults, issue recalls to fix them or have given goodwill contributions.
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(Duplicate post)
Edited by Avant on 17/05/2014 at 00:11
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"At last! Someone else who has had the came crappy customer experience from toyota as me! You can't crack the toyota halo on this forum though...."
So you have found one other poster who has had a similar experience to you, wow.
Compare that to other posters on these forums who have reported seemingly bad customer service experience form other makes especially VAG and BMW.
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Had both BMW and BMW. VAG far worse. BMW do own up to there failures and offer Goodwill, if it BMW fully serviced and not an import.
I would never go to any dealer for such a major repair they never seam gear up for the work and alway charge 2X a specilist..
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When I read about the swirle flap problems with my BMW 530 Diesel i contacted my local agent and he unofficialy agreed that there was a problem with the units dropping into the engine , trashing the whole unit.
but the only way to check if the engine had them fotted was to remove the inlet manifold
I checked with BMW HQ who denied there was a problem, and they were unable to confirm if my engine was fitted with the swirle flaps or not.
Had the inlet manifold removed and lo and behold there were no swirl valve flaps.
What a waste of time and effort which could have been avoided if the manufacturer had a record of which engines were fitted with them.
Anyone else had a similar experience.
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Success story!
Just had this failure at 56000 miles. A solid amber/yellow engine light became active. Purchased a cheap OBD 2 diagnostics tool which confirmed the engine had a fault referring to cam positioning sensor - Data out of range. Took the car to my local VW dealer and raised my concerns about the timing chain and they said they need to carry out their own diagnostics. However, the service representative mentioned that this part should not stretch if the car was properly maintained. They concluded that this was indeed a stretched cam chain and as a result, my valve timing was out by 21 degrees...
Once they told me this is a 7 hour job and it would set me back by £1200, I explained that I was not satisfied as the car had a major service 3000 miles before and has a FSH with VW. They explained that the only way of picking up this fault was to open the engine so they could not identify it at the time. Awaiting my approval to go ahead and replace the timing chain, I called Volkswagen UK customer services as they did not reply to my email. I explained that I found youtube videos, Car magazine articles (German) and many blogs identifying this as a very common and potentialy fatal fault to the engine. The customer service representative took my details and called me back soon after.
Pleasingly, he called me back within the hour and informed me that VW UK would pay 40% and the local garage would pay another 28%. I felt this was very reasonable as the car was out of warranty in terms of time so I gave them the green light for tepairs. This was purely due to my FSH with Volkswagen and continuous support to my local dealer.
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Appalling service:- expecting you the sustomer to pay for a design fault.
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I think I was lucky to get goodwill as the car is 7 years old which might be why I am satisfied. However, I fully agree that 100% Goodwill would be the best option from a of Customer service point of view. The article I saw in the German magazine (link below) explains more about the defect:
Original: http://www.autobild.de/artikel/vw-tsi-motorschaeden-3393757.html
This page can be translated via Google Translate by pasting the original link in the translate box.
From my understanding, the article explains that the defect was due to money saving methods used by the contractor that manufactured the chain. Overuse of tools resulted in tooling marks left on parts of the chain linkages. This in turn could result in excessive wear on the chain and then causes it to stretch.
If this is the case in the UK, which I believe to be true, I can not see why the customer should be held liable for these failures.
Edited by joubs on 07/01/2015 at 13:09
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Sorry to say this, but if a defective part lasts for 7 years, then it wasn't that defective.
That's my opinion though.
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The Autobild article makes for an interesting read. One thing to note is that they state cars only doing short journies are affected worst of all. VW are not paying out to have cars fixed, that are well outside of warranty, for nothing.....they know there's a problem as the article clearly shows. Just a pity you have to gather loads of info first before VW UK will do anything (seemingly in most cases) - thank God for the internet!
So that's one issue explained on the TSi engines - they've just got to explain/sort out the high oil use on the TSi engines now.....
If only everything in life was reliable as a Volkswagen.......VW mechanics would be kicking about in their workshops with far less to do!
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I would love to know the exact number that have suffered failure and the exact number of engines fitted in vehicles (VW, Skoda, Seat and Audi).
As usual there is probably an element of missed maintenance involved in many of the failures plus from the evidence I have seen on the Seat Forum many owners of the twin charged versions especially have chipped them to stupid power levels, thrashed them and then sell them on just before the warranty expires.
But at the end of the day it will be only a tiny percentage that fail.
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It is not a (lack of) maintenance issue - it is a quality/design issue.
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I've just spoken to VW customer services today about the same issue, '57 VW 1.4 GT TSI, that we've owned from 3 months old. It's been serviced and maintained as per the handbook by only VW dealerships, - the timing chain failed - VW have said they are not interested in helping in any way, they say the cars too old to make a contribution, even allowing for the fact that it has been 100% correctly maintained.
I pointed out that it's been reported that this isn't how they deal with the problem in Germany - their response "VW may do things differently in diferent countries" but in the UK they view the car as too old. I asked them why they in their advertising they continue to say "if only everything was as reliable as a Volkswagen" whilst this fault seems to be well known - they responded to the effect that all cars fail at some time.
I also asked why they weren't taking any notice of the fact that as a family we've bought 7 Golfs in the last seven years (including a new Golf R and new GTI in the last 12 months) and had them all maintained only by VW dealers.
They didn't want to discuss customer loyalty just said they understood where I was coming from (!!) but they wern't going to do anything to help - so the upshot is that they've just lost themselves a loyal VW customer, shame they don't get that customer and brand loyalty needs to cut both ways!
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1.8TFSI engine in an Audi on an 08 plate. Customer attended our garage with broken down car. Static timing lost. On inspection it appears the hydraulic tensioner has a ratchet on it that goes weak allowing the chain to be incorrectly tensioned and jump Bad news. Good news however is that only the rockers between the cams and the valves break and are a few quid each from VAG. Can be checked by conducting a compression check on the engine. If ok (no bent valves then the vehicle needs replaced rockers, a new chain and tensioner and a few hours labour (well less than £ 1000) and a lot less than a new engine. (It's as if the engine designer designed a weak point into the engine with the tensioner design and then installed rockers that would break rather than allow valves to bend). VAG have modified the tensioner on this engine since 08 with a retaining clip that supports the ratchet mechanism to hold the tension on the hydraulic tensioner when the engine is switched off and oil pressure is lost. Its still a bit micky mouse but should work better than the old tensioner design as it wears.
the Sad part we found was that in order to complete the work on this engine a couple of bespoke tools were required. The local VAG dealership can get hold of them but "refused" to sell them to our garage on the grounds it was taking work away from them !!!
Needless to say google of the OEM part numbers revealed the required tools on Fleabay and other sites including the US. A few days delay whilst we got the lock up tools and one happy customer who had been quoted several thousand for a new engine from Audi.
Lesso. Check the compression before condeming the engine as if the rockers only have failed then the valves aren't bent then the repair doesn't involve head removal, new valves etc. Just a little mechancial knowledge and the correct lock up tools for the cams, crank etc
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And people wonder why I pillory VW costomer Service. Seems the reason why they are second bottom for service..tinyurl.com/lat3ayw is because they are rubbish..
(And SEAT are bottom - owned by ... VW).
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Skoda is number 4 in that survey (which doesn't surprise me) - it would be interesting to know how they are responding to the same issue, on their cars fitted with this engine? I know when the Siemens injector fiasco first surfaced on the 2.0TDI, Skoda admitted the problem to customers while VW UK were still denying there was a fault at all........
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Question for YG2007
'1.8TFSI engine in an Audi on an 08 plate. Customer attended our garage with broken down car. Static timing lost. On inspection it appears the hydraulic tensioner has a ratchet on it that goes weak allowing the chain to be incorrectly tensioned and jump Bad news. Good news however is that only the rockers between the cams and the valves break and are a few quid each from VAG. Can be checked by conducting a compression check on the engine. If ok (no bent valves then the vehicle needs replaced rockers, a new chain and tensioner and a few hours labour (well less than £ 1000) and a lot less than a new engine. (It's as if the engine designer designed a weak point into the engine with the tensioner design and then installed rockers that would break rather than allow valves to bend). VAG have modified the tensioner on this engine since 08 with a retaining clip that supports the ratchet mechanism to hold the tension on the hydraulic tensioner when the engine is switched off and oil pressure is lost. Its still a bit micky mouse but should work better than the old tensioner design as it wears.'
I basically have the same problem with my Golf TSI 1.4. (07) Less than 45k on clock. Only bought last year but not from VW garage. Its at the VW garage now and they want £1200 (after already spending £300 for diagnostic). The timing chain has stretched and the VW garage is saying that its jumped at least 6-7 teeth. Now when the warning light first came on I took it straight to my garage and they thought it was just the cam shaft sensor so said that i could keep driving it.... I drove it (tentatively) for maybe another 30-40 miles before I took it back to garage for sensor to be changed. Then my mehanic said that he would need to involve VW as they had the specialist equipment etc. So they have recommended changing the timing chain which i understand as they need to put the timing chain on before they can check the compression?? But my problem with that is that they can't tell me whether the valves are bent etc and therefore is the engine useless. I'm a woman who doesn't know alot about cars! I didn't want to spend £1200 if the engine is useless... is there any other way apart from stripping it? How accurate is the borescope camera?
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You've spent £300 already on a diagnosis and now they want you to spend £1200 but no guarantee of a fix? That's not good enough. You need to know exactly by written quote what it will cost to make good. What have they done so far for £300? Have they stripped it down? What I would have expected is to pay an amount for full diagnosis, which will probably involve stripping down to determine valve/piston damage etc and then a written quote to fix.
There's an element of taking you for a ride here, as you cannot throw an unknown amount of money into a possible bottomless pit.
Go back to the garage and ask to negotiate some more. I might be prepared to spend another 2 or 3 hundred perhaps, in order to get that full diagnosis and written quote.
If it needs a new engine or top engine, the bill is going to run into thousands unless you can find a scrap 1.4tsi and get a good indie to swap it in for you. It needs to be weighed up against the value of the car. Which is what....maybe £3k ish or so?
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Do you have a name, as Im going through this at the moment and my case handler is cr*p
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