New car options? Hmmm

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 08:49
New car options? Hmmm - NAthan smith
Hi all
My wife is looking to change her fiat 500x for something similar and diesel this time as her commute is longer. Ive done some research and narrowed down to Nissan Juke, Qashqai, Kuga? Her priorities are cheap to run, highish driving position , space for 2 kids and practicality. She likes the kind of funky look of that makes sense?!
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Wed 27 Dec 2017 09:48
New car options? Hmmm - badbusdriver

Without a budget and knowing the mileage involved it's difficult to make a suggestion?. However, as far as I can remember, the quashqai is not a car that is recommended, and presumably the juke will suffer from any issues that apply to it's big brother.

You need to think carefully about going down the diesel route as a longer commute by itself does not necessitate a diesel. With modern small capacity turbo petrols managing to average 50mpg, it would have to be a very long commute to justify the extra expense and maintenance for a diesel. These days, it's generally reckoned that 20k+ miles is what you need to be covering for diesel to be financially beneficial.

It would be a good idea to look at the honest john reviews of each car you are thinking of, and pay particular attention to the good/bad section!.

One of the very few modern diesel engines recommended by the forums resident motor trader SLO, is the 1.6 Honda. I don't know if anything in the Honda line up appeals to your wife, but if I had to go diesel, that's what I'd be looking at.

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 13:27
New car options? Hmmm - NAthan smith
Sorry budget around £10500 upto 3 yrs old. Around 14k miles a year cash purchase



Edited by NAthan smith on 27/12/2017 at 13:28

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 15:07
New car options? Hmmm - Engineer Andy
Sorry budget around £10500 upto 3 yrs old. Around 14k miles a year cash purchase

Definitely not diesel then. Any of them would have a DPF and the cost of replacement parts of the emmissions control equipment on them ain't cheap. I'd go for a petrol-engined car, and not a hybrid either, just not worth it if buying second hand and half way through the working life of the batteries.

Are you indicating that you're looking to keep it for 3 years, looking at cars that are about/over 3 years old or both? Bear in mind that a £10k budget will like buy a mid-sized MPV of somewhere around the 2-5 year old mark, depending upon the vehicle size, spec/trim level and make.

It looks like from your budget that you probably wouldn't be able to afford a car with 'all the toys' or a 'premium' (read German [not necessarily high engineering quality]) car, so only go for one that you can afford to run with minimal expenses for repairs, i.e. reliability.

I'll leave what to look for down to BBD, SLO and others, but I would suggest you make up a 'running costs' budget per year, including fuel) make sure you look up each car's 'Real mpg' from HJ's page and disregard the 'official' figures (which are probably averaged for a combination of city and out-of-town driving [add/take away about 5-10% if your driving pattern is nearer one end of that scale]), get a good range of insurance quotes from insurers you'd actually use (and are actually comparable [some aren't as they only have high excesses]) and add on tax for the specific car as well as servicing costs from the local dealer or indepenent (note that for some makes, even outside of warranty, are much more reliable over the long term if you get them serviced at a main dealer or reputable indie, and not some cheapo backyard joint with insufficient diagnostics equipment and specialist tools for that car/make, as well as access to the manufacturers updates and service bulletins).

Whatever you initially boil the 'new' list down to, make sure that all who are to drive the car go for a decent length test drive on a variety of roads and speeds (and not just in jog-jog traffic) to guage its drive and comfort. Take your time before setting off to, as far as possible, get the seating and steering wheel position right for each driver - many people test drive cars without doing much other than pulling the seat foward or back and regret not doing more later on once they've bought the car. The same goes for general ergonomics (fiddle with the controls whilst in the dealership) including back seat and boot space, ease of parking/loading up the boot, adding in child seats. I always take my holiday gear to see what actually can fit in the boot without taking any parcel shelf out or putting back seats down.

Also bear in mind that some 'style-conscious' cars often come with big wheels and low profile (below 55 profile) tyres, which a) often give a firm ride, noisy (which will only get more so as the car ages/tyres wear), b) make the suspension components work harder (meaning they will likely have to be replaced far sooner - not cheap) and c) the tyres will last half the time (1-2 years instead of 2-5) of higher profile ones and cost between £200 - £400 more per set of four.

Its amazing how easy it is to forget such points when buying a car and regret it later, which can often end up costing you a small fortune if you have to PX the car after a few months for another (never mind the extra time having to repeat the buying process).

Best of luck.

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 16:50
New car options? Hmmm - SteveLee
Sorry budget around £10500 upto 3 yrs old. Around 14k miles a year cash purchase

I'd go for a petrol-engined car, and not a hybrid either, just not worth it if buying second hand and half way through the working life of the batteries.

Are you indicating that you're looking to keep it for 3 years, looking at cars that are about/over 3 years old or both? .

If most journeys are motorway/a rood cruises then that's a good idea to not bother with hybrids as you're operating outside their efficiency "band", but the nonsense about "being halfway through the working life of the batteries" for a ~three year old car is completely unfounded. There are plenty of 12+ year old Priuses whizzing around on their original battery pack. My 11 year old Lexus has just passed it's hybrid battery test with flying colours and I regularly boot it away from the lights which puts heat stress on the battery packs and inverter - which is detrimental to their life. NiMH batteries if kept between 20 and 80% charge (which is what all Toyota/Lexus software does) means the batteries could last two decades with only a gradual drop-off in performance - I'd be surprised if the case was different for any other hybrid. I'm sure there are premature battery pack failures but they're not that common.

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 18:38
New car options? Hmmm - Engineer Andy

I understood that the warranty on their hybrid batteries was 7 years, which means they aren't designed to last that much longer, and most household batteries are lucky to be capable of keeping 50% of their original capacity. My point was that unless the OP would be predominantly using the car in town, then a hybrid would be an older car than a petrol only equivalent for the money and, if it was owned for a good few years afterwards, would not provide the level of mpg as it would in its early years due to the deterioration of the batteries. Its why I personally would only recommend buying a hybrid car if 2 years old and under - nothing to do with reliability really.

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 19:02
New car options? Hmmm - RT

I understood that the warranty on their hybrid batteries was 7 years, which means they aren't designed to last that much longer, and most household batteries are lucky to be capable of keeping 50% of their original capacity. My point was that unless the OP would be predominantly using the car in town, then a hybrid would be an older car than a petrol only equivalent for the money and, if it was owned for a good few years afterwards, would not provide the level of mpg as it would in its early years due to the deterioration of the batteries. Its why I personally would only recommend buying a hybrid car if 2 years old and under - nothing to do with reliability really.

AFAIK Lexus hybrid batteries get an 8 year warranty - it seems they've replaced very few under warranty - or very few after the 8 years so we just don't know how long they last.

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Thu 28 Dec 2017 02:20
New car options? Hmmm - colinh

If Toyota hybrid are serviced at a dealer (and servicing is relatively inexpensive on hybrids) they'll do a "hybrid health check" and that qualifies the car for an extra year's cover on the hybrid components up to 10 years.

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 16:10
New car options? Hmmm - SLO76
Stretch the budget a bit and negotiate hard and a good approved used Honda CRV 1.6 DTEC, current model Toyota RAV-4 2.0 D4D or Mazda CX-5 with the excellent 2.0 petrol Skyactiv engine should all be options. The Mazda will almost match diesel economy but there’s no fear of a blocked DPF or failed turbo.

There’s also the smaller slightly funkier CX-3 which uses a lower output version of the same engine. Personally from your list of requirements this is where my money would go. Avoid the Mazda's with the 2.2 Skyactiv diesel or the PSA 1.5 Diesel. Both have a past reputation for failure and it’s not clear yet if they’ve been sorted. Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20170913927...9

Edited by SLO76 on 27/12/2017 at 16:13

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 17:52
New car options? Hmmm - NAthan smith
2.0 petrol too juicy and insure hike thatshe doesn’t want to pay
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Wed 27 Dec 2017 18:24
New car options? Hmmm - Engineer Andy
2.0 petrol too juicy and insure hike thatshe doesn’t want to pay

It's a de rated non-turbocharged engine with a performance about the same as the VAG 1.4 TSI in standard guise, about a second quicker to 60 than the 1.2T types found in VAGs and Renaults/Nissans. It's not a performance engine and the cars it's found in are of similar insurance group to others mentioned.

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Thu 28 Dec 2017 00:35
New car options? Hmmm - SLO76
2.0 petrol too juicy and insure hike thatshe doesn’t want to pay

45-50mpg in real life too juicy? Insurance isn’t based on engine size either so check it before dismissing. The CX-3/5 are the best driving cars in their class and likely to outlast every rival too. I’d place them at the top of any small SUV shortlist.
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Thu 28 Dec 2017 11:00
New car options? Hmmm - NAthan smith
Real mpg for the 2.0 petrol are 37.4mpg which is not great. There is no way that engine would deliver 50-60mpg
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Thu 28 Dec 2017 11:21
New car options? Hmmm - SLO76
Real mpg for the 2.0 petrol are 37.4mpg which is not great. There is no way that engine would deliver 50-60mpg

44.8mpg according to HJ real economy figures on the CX-3 2.0 120PS and you’ll beat that easily with a light right foot. 60mpg is unlikely though close to 50 May be possible. But if it’s not for you then it’s not for you. My one drive in a CX-5 2.0 showed 44mpg on a mixed run without any major restraint. It’s close to diesel but with none of the longterm reliability drawbacks.

Edited by SLO76 on 28/12/2017 at 11:23

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Fri 29 Dec 2017 11:52
New car options? Hmmm - Engineer Andy
Real mpg for the 2.0 petrol are 37.4mpg which is not great. There is no way that engine would deliver 50-60mpg

44.8mpg according to HJ real economy figures on the CX-3 2.0 120PS and you’ll beat that easily with a light right foot. 60mpg is unlikely though close to 50 May be possible. But if it’s not for you then it’s not for you. My one drive in a CX-5 2.0 showed 44mpg on a mixed run without any major restraint. It’s close to diesel but with none of the longterm reliability drawbacks.

Indeed SLO - I managed to get around 42mpg whilst test driving a still tight (only a few miles on the clock) showroom demo CX-3 2.0 Sport Nav Auto (on 18in rims, so worse mpg than the SE-L Nav running on 16in rims), driving in the current sort of weather with the heater and heated seats on, and not tootling around with a light foot as I usually do. I'm sure, once it was worn in, and over an entire year, I'd be able to get 45mpg average at least.

Note to the OP - as the Mazda petrol engined cars don't use turbos, then there's less to (expensively) go wrong, similarly to the normally aspirated petrol engines in the previous gen Honda Civic & Co. Getting the 'best' mpg should never be the be all and end off of buying a car - there are many other factors, as previously explained by many of us, that can have a large financial impact on the cost of buying and running a car, as well as the actual ownership experience itself.

Long-term reliabilityrobustness normally more than offsets the lower (not that low - the one you quoted was for the range-topping 150hp [not standard 120hp version 4WD CX-3, which you don't really need unless you're living in a very rural area that regularly gets bad weather in winter - and is often more than compensated by running a car with an additional set of winter tyres or at least decent all season ones.

Just, on its own, running a car on 16in 55-60 profile rims instead of 18in 35-45 profile rims will likely outweigh the difference in real mpg (not as much as you think either) between these N/A petrol engines and, say, a modern diesel or turbo-petrol with lots of extra engineering onboard, never mind the far better ride quality with negligable penalty in handling at road legal speeds. I find it odd why you are so concerned about saving a few hundred £££ in fuel costs by wanting a diesel or turbo-petrol (or maybe a hybrid, much more expensive), but seem perfectly ok to get 5% less mpg running a car on low profile tyres that cost £300 - £500 more to replace than perfectly good quality 'standard' profile ones and having to do so at half to 2/3rds of the time.

Your wife may prefer the 'looks' of the Juke, Mini, 500x etc (thought its a very 'Marmite' car in that respect), and that's fine if she wants' a 'handbag' car, but just remember that looks aren't everything, and besides, the Mazda CX-3 is a very good looking car (the CX-5 is nice outside, a bit more staid inside but not that bad at all). Just remember this when one of you is driving little Jonny to his footie game/little Jane to her ballet recital and the 'nice looking' car grinds to a halt (not the first time) and strands you for over 2 hours, missing the event and ruining your day.

Buying a car for family use should, in my view, be solely with the head and not the heart (as much as may wish to), as you have greater concerns. A single person is only responsible for themselves. Jus sayin'.

PS. We're not making these points just to annoy you - they are honest advice/opinions based on our own experiences and those of fellow Backroomers.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 29/12/2017 at 11:55

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 10:16
New car options? Hmmm - SLO76
How many miles will it be doing annually and will most of it be local short runs or distance? How long do you intend on keeping it? Will it be leased or PCP then offloaded before the warranty term is up? Bbd is correct that the Nissan’s are not up to the best standard and are basically just a Clio and a Megane under the skin but if it’s not going to be kept past the warranty term then there’s little worry.

Personally as already mentioned I really rate Honda’s 1.6 DTEC diesels, in fact I’m wary of recommending any other small diesel motors these days. However Renault’s 1.5 dci as used in the two Nissan’s is fine if maintained properly, I’ve seen them 150k up and running fine. Trim and electrical issues are the worst of the ownership experience on these. Timing belts can fail prematurely though so if you intend longterm ownership have it done early.

The Kuga is a good option as long as you avoid the Powershift gearbox but Ford have been heavily cost cutting over the last few years so dynamically and quality wise it’s not up to the older car in my opinion. The PSA 2.0 Diesel is fine if used for longer runs mostly and correctly maintained.

Edited by SLO76 on 27/12/2017 at 10:18

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 17:05
New car options? Hmmm - SteveLee

The Citroën C3 Cactus is a cracking car for the money, not as luxurious as some of the opposition, but the ride quality is exemplary for the class and they’re funky looking (Marmite springs to mind), you’ll get a newer, lower mileage example for the same cash as the soft roaders mentioned above, they’re pretty light too so are quite sprightly to drive regardless of engine choice. The only real fly in the ointment in my opinion is the lack of wind-down windows in the rear, but some people with poorly behaved children may consider that a bonus.

Edited by SteveLee on 27/12/2017 at 17:06

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 17:46
New car options? Hmmm - veloceman
You could stick with a 500X
You can get one a year old diesel with two years remains warranty for £10.5k
Look after it properly and it’ll be a good car.
Also my Sister has had a cactus for a but now.
Been a good car for her in the year or two she owned it and gets 60mpg.
My only personal dislike is the iPad type adjustment for the heater controls and the weird back windows.
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Wed 27 Dec 2017 17:48
New car options? Hmmm - NAthan smith
Wife’s comment was she would rather get the bus than be seen dead than in one of those (cactus)

Edited by NAthan smith on 27/12/2017 at 17:51

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 17:50
New car options? Hmmm - NAthan smith
Wife’s comment was she would rather get the bus than be seen dead than in one of those
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Wed 27 Dec 2017 17:56
New car options? Hmmm - SteveLee
Wife’s comment was she would rather get the bus than be seen dead than in one of those

Cool, it'll save you a few quid in wear and tear then.

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 18:00
New car options? Hmmm - NAthan smith
I did tell her you can’t dent the doors!
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Wed 27 Dec 2017 18:03
New car options? Hmmm - SteveLee
I did tell her you can’t dent the doors!

I think they look cool in black where the crashtest bumps are less obvious! They remind me of a 306Gti, fluid supple ride with decent damping. If she doesn't like 'em then she doesn't like 'em.

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Fri 29 Dec 2017 12:44
New car options? Hmmm - Happy Blue!

Lots of options around, including the Renault Captur. We have one in our fleet. Almost three years old and no repairs needed at all. 0.9l 3cyl turbo petrol engine will easily cruise at 75mph. 50mpg likely under those conditions.

However, if the 14,000 miles a year of Nathan 's wife are mainly longer journeys, then every reason to look at diesels as well. It's frequent, short, cold stop start journeys that kill the DPF not longer ones. 35 miles each way averaging say 40mph will be perfect for a diesel.

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Wed 27 Dec 2017 23:18
New car options? Hmmm - Smileyman

I have a 37 mile commute .. each way. I changed cars in the summer of 2017. One factor I gave serious thought about is the range of the car, I didn't want to need to fill up more than once a week.

Not knowng your wife's commute I cannot comment on the suitability of any specific ca;, however keep the thought of range of fuel tank in mind as an extra consideration when choosing th new car.

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