|
My take on this is to look at how the maker usually deals with issues once a problem rears its ugly head, do they admit their fault and does the car owner feel happy that if the vehicle has the problem that the dealer/maker will sort the issue out straighforwardly at no cost and minimal inconvenience to the customer.
Up to a point it doesn't matter too much if an engine distengrates half way through a 3 year new car ownership period f the vehicle is being replaced again, its a different thing altogether when a car is a ong term prospect and warranty has expired.
Then you have to ask yourself why some makers feel confident enough to offer 5 or 7 year warranties and some have stuck to 3.
|
|
|
|
I suppose there are always some good as well as bad experiences with any make or model. My daughter had a Fiests with the Ecoboost 1.0 engine for 2 years and had 18K miles of trouble free motoring. She now has a Focus with the 1.0 Ecoboost and so far has had 18 months of trouble free motoring. She likes the car, likes the drive and the fuel economy too. She is an excellent driver having the benefit of police training, but I drive it occasionally and it is very nice drive. Hopefully Ford have sorted out the teething troubles.
Cheers Concrete
|
|
Thanks for the, as always, very helpful replies.
Since buying the car in July I've frequented a forum for B Max owners, the early days and months of which were littered with threads about the issues with Powershift. Most of those contributors no longer post, so they either have no more trouble with their cars, can't be bothered posting or more likely, got shut of their cars ages ago.
There are plenty more folks on there who have the B Max with Ecoboost engines, both the 99bhp and 123bhp versions, and the problems associated with those, if the volume of complaint on the forums is anything to go by, is much less than with the Powershift. Doesn't mean that somewhere else a whole heap of Ecoboost owners aren't complaining bitterly, but as stated earlier I only know of the cooling hose issues and nothing else specific.
It might have been SLO who referred to the Ecoboost problems, so I'd be grateful for a resume if he's around. And BBD, you're absolutely right to advise caution. Its on my list, but it ain't at the top.
Edited by argybargy on 27/11/2017 at 13:21
|
|
|
. My daughter had a Fiests with the Ecoboost 1.0 engine for 2 years and had 18K miles of trouble free motoring. She now has a Focus with the 1.0 Ecoboost and so far has had 18 months of trouble free motoring.
In my book this is the first ten per cent of its life, i.e. meaningless. I wouldn't touch one of these yet. My gut feeling is the Peugeot Puretech 1.2 might be a better long term bet (it also has a more acceptable autobox) - we are seriously thinking of a 2008 to replace our aging Focus - at least it passes the kneecap test (maximum height for lower edge of boot-lid)....must go and lie down till the thought wears off.
|
|
Car Mechanics May 2017 had an article on the engine: electronics diagnostics:
1. New batteries must be coded to the car.And a new battery is c£200.
2. Coil packs fail.
3. Turbo actuator fails. Turbo oil pipes need to be replaced if coolant pipe fails.
4 Failed coolant pipe. Overheating =HG problems if driven far.. or new engine.
5. ECU fails.
I am with John F on his comments: anyone who claims a car has lasted from new for 18k miles and nothing has gone wrong has got it wrong...Reverse the numbers and make it 81k and it might be more impressive : but only just.
No wonder Ford offer a 3 year warranty.. Looks like an expensive car to run when 5 years old and maintained like many 5 year old cars.
Edited by madf on 27/11/2017 at 14:36
|
|
Sorry madf but I actually didn't get anything 'wrong'. I am simply telling of my family experience with the Ecoboost. Nowhere in the OP was it mentioned he wanted to cover 81K miles or keep the car for 5 years. In that case a different question would be posed to owners of older vehicles like this, to recall their experience. No experience at all with 3 year plus Ecoboosts, if that is any clearer.
Cheers Concrete
|
|
Bought my fiesta ecoboost new in 2013, no problems at all with the engine, had a relay fail which was fixed under warranty, only got to 24000 miles before I traded in for another new fiesta
|
|
Thanks for all contributions.
I've been relatively lucky with the Powershift so far, Ford having paid for a clutch replacement which, out of warranty, would have crippled my finances for months.
Can't imagine I'll be so lucky with yet another Ford product of dubious repute (whilst readily acknowledging the positive experiences related on this thread), so I'll probably give the Ecoboost a miss.
|
Again can only speak from experience.
My girl friend has a Ecoboost 100bhp nearly 5 years old and now done 56,000 miles.
Only problem was faulty clutch switch which left it reluctant to start all - done under warranty.
Dealer Serviced every year.
She is now ready for a change - off to look at the Seat Arona at the weekend.
Another 3cl engine turbo to fret about!
I was under the impression the focus with the same engine is more problematical and in 125bhp form too.
|
|
Thanks, veloceman. I heard the reverse: that the 125 is more problematic than the 99bhp version. Not as clear cut as I thought, obviously.
It strikes me that there could be an element of the self fulfilling prophecy with some of these problems. Driving a car hard and/or failing to maintain it properly can play a huge part, obviously, but there may be something else at play.
Having bought my B Max and then read about the Powershift issues, I spent the next few weeks waiting for them to manifest themselves. Manifest they did, but only in a relatively minor way except on one occasion, when whilst driving up a steep hill the gearbox made a noise like the proverbial bag of spanners.
That one occasion was enough to make me head for the nearest dealer (who was rubbish, so I went to a different one 30 miles away) and the rest is history.
I suppose all cars have at least one weakness, and if you spend time waiting for it to show itself, and (perhaps subconsciously) looking to create the conditions in which that weakness is likely to appear, then show itself it eventually will.
Edited by argybargy on 28/11/2017 at 19:29
|
|
I realise this thread is about the ecoboost engine, and I can see the appeal in a small turbo engine, so I can see why manufacturers would persist with them. On paper, the ecoboost is a brilliant thing, so hopefully, come time, the problems will be overcome.
But regarding your gearbox issues, I really find myself wondering why manufacturers persist with the dual clutch manuals?. The current versions of the cvt with their programmed 'steps' offer everything the dual clutch manual does, but with none of the drawbacks. They are reliable, fairly simple (certainly compared to a dual clutch manual), and they are economical (which is the main minus point of the torque converter auto). In our jazz, you can change ratios using the paddles on the back of the steering wheel, to satisfy the wannabe racing drivers (I generally don't bother). It makes me think that manufacturers persist with the dct simply because to do otherwise would be admitting that they can't make them work properly, and therefore, lose face.
|
Sorry my wording isn’t that clear.
It was supposed to read; the 125bhp version is more problematical.
|
Sorry my wording isn’t that clear. It was supposed to read; the 125bhp version is more problematical.
Understood, and thanks.
|
|
My experience of autoboxes in cars is limited, BBD, and not of the best. We've owned just two examples: this Powershift and the long-unlamented Easytronic in a Meriva. I drove autoboxes in fire engines, but presumably they were CVTs, though I have to confess that I just don't know.
The dual clutch box is clearly hellishly complex in comparison to those CVTs, and helllishly expensive to replace also. As you suggest, once the manufacturer has put in place the infrastructure to build these things and the complaints start flooding in, it becomes not only a financial but a political decision to, as has happened in this case, tough it out in the hope that the problem goes away, then pull the technology, dispose of any faulty units and replace them with a working version, rather than admitting defeat and inviting tens of thousands of owners to return cars for a refund.
I did hear on good authority that owners who had problems during the early days of Powershift were having their faulty clutches replaced with faulty replacement units, because Ford wanted to clear the shelves of the flawed clutches before restocking with somethng that worked. As a result, many of those who took their cars back for a clutch replacement in the early days had to return to the dealer again just a few months later when their second or third clutch failed.
Maybe one day the dual clutch WILL work, and we'll all look back on Powershift, DSG etc as the flawed vanguard of a bright new dawn in vehicle technology. Or maybe they'll be barely remembered, and even then only as an embarrassingly ill-advised experiment that failed and cost these companies a whole heap of cash and a whole host of customers.
Edited by argybargy on 29/11/2017 at 09:58
|
Maybe one day the dual clutch WILL work, and we'll all look back on Powershift, DSG etc as the flawed vanguard of a bright new dawn in vehicle technology. Or maybe they'll be barely remembered, and even then only as an embarrassingly ill-advised experiment that failed and cost these companies a whole heap of cash and a whole host of customers.
If electric technology improves then they will be forgotten - there will be no need for a gearbox anymore.
The same thing has happened to these gearboxes as it has to engines. What started as a relatively simple means of transferring power has become over complicated in an effort to improve economy.
In response to a post above, yes, all cars have weak points, but when one of the major and most expensive components of a car is unreliable, it makes me look elsewhere.
|
|
Thanks for that response, corax.
Found a long thread on the forum of the Ford Owners Club concerning rust damage to turbo cooling pipes on the Ecoboost Fiesta. The damage shown in some of the photos posted by contributors was pretty bad for cars which in some cases were only 18 months old, and these are apparently pipes that Ford will not replace without doing a complete turbo replacement, costing over a grand.
Some owners have been advised by Ford that they are prepared to apply an epoxy paint to prevent the corrosion worsening, and others have decided to do this job themselves. Others still have had new turbos and cooling pipes fitted with a contribution from Ford to the cost and in one case the entire bill covered.
The tone of the Ecoboost discussion closely mirrors the frustration of owners which is evident in the early posts about the Powershift on the B Max forum. Ford's often piecemeal, sometimes disinterested, even dismissive attitude to addressing manufacturing faults seems to apply equally to both issues.
So yes, I'll leave the Ecoboost well alone.
Edited by argybargy on 30/11/2017 at 21:47
|
Thanks for that response, corax.
Found a long thread on the forum of the Ford Owners Club concerning rust damage to turbo cooling pipes on the Ecoboost Fiesta. The damage shown in some of the photos posted by contributors was pretty bad for cars which in some cases were only 18 months old, and these are apparently pipes that Ford will not replace without doing a complete turbo replacement, costing over a grand.
Some owners have been advised by Ford that they are prepared to apply an epoxy paint to prevent the corrosion worsening, and others have decided to do this job themselves. Others still have had new turbos and cooling pipes fitted with a contribution from Ford to the cost and in one case the entire bill covered.
The tone of the Ecoboost discussion closely mirrors the frustration of owners which is evident in the early posts about the Powershift on the B Max forum. Ford's often piecemeal, sometimes disinterested, even dismissive attitude to addressing manufacturing faults seems to apply equally to both issues.
So yes, I'll leave the Ecoboost well alone.
Given the above and other posts, I'll be recommending my (now elderly) parents not buy a Fiesta next time round (they've always owned Fords, originally Escorts [dad's company cars], and is now on their second Fiesta (both 1.25 petrols, latest being an 08 plate). The NA 1.1 currently available is too slow at 14sec to 60 (there's is about 12.5-13 and slower than the [same engine] previous model they owned [my dad moans about that])
Perhaps I can persuade him to buy a Mazda2 with its nippier 1.5 NA engine in 90bhp mode (0-60 in under 10sec) a car from another make without reliability woes. All I need him to do is convince him that he'll have to spend a good deal more than before (he got his current Fiesta [run-out model] new or pre-reg for a real bargain of about £6.5K [list price much higher]). Maybe going through a broker or buying at around reg-change time would suit.
Given this will be their last car before giving up driving (they'll likely keep it for 10+ years as the current one), I think hassle-free driving is a must, but the car needs to not be slow. Shame for the Ecoboosts, as they would suit them, at least performance-wise, though perhaps not usage or mpg wise (they mainly do short trips, which won't do any turbo any good at all). My dad is, though, rather wedded to buying Fords...
|
|
|
|
