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If the problem is this bad, Why don't the DVLA take notice when we tell them about an untaxed vehicle? There are now 2 in my street.
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I am absolutely sure that there is a hidden "do nothing " process at work here when it comes to following up reporting vehicles with no tax/no MOT to the authorities. It's called "out of sight/out of mind". If I am proved wrong--it will only be because somebody from these authorities reads this blog and makes a comment explaining just what is done when a report is filed, how it's done, when it's done etc. Oh yes- and specifc figures of how many vehicles were caught, what the punishments were would be useful too!
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I am surprised that the reporting of this hasn't been privatised. There must be a nice little earner.
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I am surprised that the reporting of this hasn't been privatised. There must be a nice little earner.
Quick, someone get on to the people running the congestion charge or one of the Political parties donors.....
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And of course, the opportunities for detecting tax fraud have diminished since the police disappeared from our streets.
The authorities mount high profile "purges" now and again, but these appear to be few and far between. Although senior police officers will tell you different, its my belief that these events are largely politically motivated, and designed to persuade the long suffering public that the system is working properly.
I doubt whether anyone in authority seriously believes that such exercises have a significant long term deterrent effect on tax evasion and the criminal activity that often exists alongside it.
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It's usually forgetfulness, not fraud. Also, if for some reason your post code is changed (as happened locally), or email address if doing it online, you don't get reminders. According to The Times, it has gone from 0.6% to 1.8% untaxed, an increase easily explained by RT above. I think it's still amazingly low - a tribute to British values of honesty and co-operation. if no-one had told me, I would have guessed a higher percentage.
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If there is no effecive enforcement then then the law will be abused.
And enforcement is a really trivial issue - set up number plate recognition camera on any high street and watch for MoT and Road tax offenders driving by.
Only issue may be how to deal with offenders - on the spot fines, vehicle confiscation, through post summons, points on licence etc.
Either the police regard this as very low priority, or are overloaded pursuing other issues. We probably need a 2 tier police force - one dealing with major crime, and one deling with day to day enforcement and protection. By ring fencing resources in both, it is more likely that local and minor issues will be dealt with.
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If there is no enforcement is a really trivial issue - set up number plate recognition camera on any high street and watch for MoT and Road tax offenders driving by. no effecive enforcement then then the law will be abused.
Only issue may be how to deal with offenders - on the spot fines, vehicle confiscation, through post summons, points on licence etc.
Either the police regard this as very low priority, or are overloaded pursuing other issues. We probably need a 2 tier police force - one dealing with major crime, and one deling with day to day enforcement and protection. By ring fencing resources in both, it is more likely that local and minor issues will be dealt with.
A police officer I know has almost 50 ongoing cases on their personal workload: this entails interviews, reports, court attendances, all to be fitted in along with responding to incidents, training etc. Some forces have admitted they do not respond to burglaries other than providing a crime number for the householder to give the insurer. Nailing tax offenders is thus low down the priority list. Tax discs were an easy way for traffic wardens to spot untaxed cars and notify DVLA.
Edited by galileo on 17/11/2017 at 13:20
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And enforcement is a really trivial issue - set up number plate recognition camera on any high street and watch for MoT and Road tax offenders driving by.
Some of you will be aware that the multi-million Mersey crossing opened a few weeks ago. The new bridge replaces the 1962 link between Runcorn and Widnes, and incurs a fee of £2 for each crossing, except for residents of Halton borough who can buy an annual permit. The fees are charged automatically by ANPR and must be paid before midnight the following day.
SWMBO crossed for the first time a couple of weeks ago, and paid at the official pay point 20 minutes afterwards. Needless to say she received notification of a fine for non-payment yesterday. I have a sinking feeling that this may run and run ....
Not sure whether those cameras do anything about untaxed or uninsured vehicles?
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I am absolutely sure that there is a hidden "do nothing " process at work here when it comes to following up reporting vehicles with no tax/no MOT to the authorities. It's called "out of sight/out of mind". If I am proved wrong--it will only be because somebody from these authorities reads this blog and makes a comment explaining just what is done when a report is filed, how it's done, when it's done etc. Oh yes- and specifc figures of how many vehicles were caught, what the punishments were would be useful too!
Ditto - I've been trying (in vain) to find a suitable way of getting the 'authorities' to act over a local person who (amonsgt other things) is running a car without an MOT (it expired months ago). Only a 'general' contact us email address on the [DVLA/DVSA/whatever they've (expensively [redoing the logos on all their stationary and buildings) changed their name to this year] website. And this is AFTER I found this info out by USING their own MOT checking service!
Surely the local Plod should automatically go after these people, fine them (which should be high enough to at least cover all the expenses of doing so) and, where needed, impound the car until the owner pays for it to be MOTed and, where required, fixed, otherwise , if they don't want it any more, then they pay for it (with costs for holding it) to be sold on or scrapped.
This should be automatic, and, as others have said, quite lucrative. It should also not be impossible for everyone to set up some way of a reminder to have their car MOTed (though I suspect many aren't forgetting once they see very few are being brought to book.
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There is a simple solution to this (like driving using a mobile.),
Cars caught on road with no tax are automatically seized. Period. To retrieve them pay a fine of 10 times VED since last on road (thus catching persitent offenders) and £500 costs for being caught. One month to pay or car sold..
Easy to administer..
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There is a simple solution to this (like driving using a mobile.),
Cars caught on road with no tax are automatically seized. Period. To retrieve them pay a fine of 10 times VED since last on road (thus catching persitent offenders) and £500 costs for being caught. One month to pay or car sold..
Easy to administer..
But not to enforce unless the government gives the police sufficent funding.
I watched one of those ubiquitious "Traffic Cops" programmes on TV the other night. One officer, during a single shift caught at least five uninsured drivers by means of his onboard ANPR...they were all taken off the road, issued with various penalties and their cars seized. OK, some of them might have access to other cars but others will not, and will definitely struggle to get back on the road. One or two might even be dissauded from doing it again.
If the police were able, across the country, to mount an extended campaign to get untaxed, uninsured drivers off the road in large numbers, rather than mounting the occasional high profile operation that lasted a few days, maybe a week, it would surely make a difference long term.
I for one would support such a long term campaign wholeheartedly, because it irks me tremendously that there are so many clowns and criminals out there on the road who just ain't paying their dues.
Edited by argybargy on 17/11/2017 at 14:49
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We need the tax disc back, so easy to spot for wardens etc and a useful reminder to the owner too. the number of offenders if the press are to believed is huge.
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But not to enforce unless the government gives the police sufficent funding.
...and yet, ONE FORCE had 'sufficient' funds to mount a multi-million Pound 'investigation' into a certain well-known politician which turned out to be based on lies and inuendo from very untrustworthy sources.
The Police and Home Office HAVE the money - they just continually spend it badly because of the ineptitude and political correctness of the top brass in each Force and Civil Servants/Politicians 'running' the Home Office, which got FAR worse since all the PC (pardon the pun) red tape was brought in from 1997 (and the Tories are too timid to get rid of).
I've worked alongside so many government depts and civil servants on projects over the years to know how where and how much money is wasted on an industrial scale. Most good ideas, such as those touted here and on other threads and forums (to do with motoring and many other issues) are often changes in HOW things are done, and mostly don't need 'more resources', more like resources and money used wisely to actually achieve results, not just to be 'seen' to be doing 'something' (e.g. the 'crackdown' on X, Y or Z - essentially a very short term measure to give a good show to the media, which isn't followed up once the furore of the original story dies down).
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Andy
I'm aware that the money is there and being used for other purposes, and that starving the police of funding for day to day enforcement tasks is a political decision. I mean, they also found a billion smackers to bribe the DUP and keep themselves in power, didn't they?
However, we are where we are, and chasing untaxed and uninsured drivers is clearly not top of this government's wish list, whatever they might say in their Press releases. To change that situation we can only continue to lobby our politicians to alter their priorities or campaign for a change of government. There is no other way forward for we poor, long suffering plebs.
Trouble is that neither option is likely to yield entirely satisfactory results for the diligent majority of the motoring public in the near future.
Edited by argybargy on 18/11/2017 at 10:15
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The number of untaxed vehicles includes all the nearly new and used cars on sale at dealers which used to be taxed until the end of the month when traded in and tax back-datedto the start of the month when sold - now they spend all their time untaxed - and the figures don't take onto account all the double taxation revenue of cars bought/sold within the month.
That was my reaction too. Ot the first time ‘official statistics’ have been musused and misquoted to suit a political agenda / try to sell newspapers. If we assumetaht even half of the ‘for sale’ car park was previously taxed that’s a big number than are now ‘avoiding’ the charge.
But ‘law of unintended consequences’ is not half so compelling a headline is it?.
I’m sure there is evasion of duty. Is it any worse than before? I’ve no idea, everything is anecdotal.
Frankly I’ve long expected it to be abolished in favour of a ‘new registrateion charge’ and an increase in duty on fuel. Even collected electronically, the £10 annual charge on my Niro can’t yield much for the Exchequer.
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