No Tax or MoT, what are the chances...

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:16
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - macski

...of making it 200 miles without a fine or having the car confiscated if I just bought it?

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:23
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - veloceman
No MOT means no insurance.
Hope you don't get far at all.
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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:27
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - pd

No MOT does not necessarily mean no insurance, but a non-roadworthy car may well do so.

You can mitigate things a bit by booking a MOT near your destination. It is a grey area but technically you can drive to a MOT station for a pre-booked MOT with no current MOT. There is no distance specified but obviously 200 miles away is going to look a bit suspect.

The reality is that the chances of getting caught are very low. You are 10x more likely to get caught on the no tax. If you do go through a check, if you subsequently MOT it and then tax it back to the start of the month you will probably still get away with it.

So, actual answer: Low. Proper answer: If you have any doubts about the car's roadworthness you should trailer it.

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:27
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - Dwight Van Driver

Wrong no MOT does not invalidate Insurance.

dvd

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:25
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - Dwight Van Driver

Unless things have changed and I have not spotted change Police do not have the power to seize vehicle for no tax only no d licence or no insurance.Only dvla have power to authorise prosecution.

It is a revenue offence and as such DVLA enforcement do have the powe to seize vehicle.

If stopped by police and reported they submit a CLE 2/6 form to dvla for them to take action.

IF vehicle taxed immediately at end of journey then when form reaches dvla their record should show vehicle taxed? NFA?

DO you feel lucky?

dvd

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Mon 6 Nov 2017 14:35
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - The Heg

Unless things have changed and I have not spotted change Police do not have the power to seize vehicle for no tax only no d licence or no insurance.Only dvla have power to authorise prosecution.

It is a revenue offence and as such DVLA enforcement do have the powe to seize vehicle.

If stopped by police and reported they submit a CLE 2/6 form to dvla for them to take action.

IF vehicle taxed immediately at end of journey then when form reaches dvla their record should show vehicle taxed? NFA?

DO you feel lucky?

dvd

Things have changed- certain officers in certain forces can now seize vehicles for no tax. Off the top of my head, I think the tax has to have been out for 3 months- so it won't be aimed at Mr Honest who forgot, or who is a bit late renewing. And yes, whilst there is a maximum £1000 fine at magistrates for no MOT, you are almost certain to get a £100 fixed penalty notice at the roadside- assuming the car is simply out of ticket and not in a dangerous condition. As others have said, easier to pay the seller to have a new ticket put on it.
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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:25
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - RT

About 100% - they don't even need to see you - if it's not on SORN then the moment the previous owner registers the transfer to get the VED refund, DVLA knows that you're the owner and haven't bought VED - which is an offence in itself whether it's on the road or not.

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:30
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - pd

About 100% - they don't even need to see you - if it's not on SORN then the moment the previous owner registers the transfer to get the VED refund, DVLA knows that you're the owner and haven't bought VED - which is an offence in itself whether it's on the road or not.

They don't actually. In reality the tax doesn't get fully cancelled to the end of the month. Even if you check on line it may come up in big red letters as untaxed but read down and it will say "Taxed and Due" which is the same as you get when it is due for renewal.

They only ever seem to pick up on it once it trips into another month or two.

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:25
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - Dwight Van Driver

repeated elswhere

Edited by Dwight Van Driver on 03/11/2017 at 16:28

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:50
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - veloceman
My apologies if I am mistaken.

My policy states I must have valid MOT.
Not sure what the chances of a making a claim would be.
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Mon 6 Nov 2017 13:28
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - focussed
My apologies if I am mistaken. My policy states I must have valid MOT. Not sure what the chances of a making a claim would be.

What happens if your MOT expires, or your car fails the MOT?

By the terms of their policy you can't legally drive it to an MOT test centre.

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Mon 6 Nov 2017 16:53
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - Engineer Andy
My apologies if I am mistaken. My policy states I must have valid MOT. Not sure what the chances of a making a claim would be.

What happens if your MOT expires, or your car fails the MOT?

By the terms of their policy you can't legally drive it to an MOT test centre.

A neighbour (I don't know them) experienced this and I saw their car being transported on a low-loader to a local garage presumably for repair and a second MOT. Not the guy I was referring to earlier about an expired MOT - he hasn't even bothered to get one (and failed) and is still driving it. I think I'll tell local plod.

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Mon 6 Nov 2017 18:01
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - focussed
My apologies if I am mistaken. My policy states I must have valid MOT. Not sure what the chances of a making a claim would be.

What happens if your MOT expires, or your car fails the MOT?

By the terms of their policy you can't legally drive it to an MOT test centre.

A neighbour (I don't know them) experienced this and I saw their car being transported on a low-loader to a local garage presumably for repair and a second MOT. Not the guy I was referring to earlier about an expired MOT - he hasn't even bothered to get one (and failed) and is still driving it. I think I'll tell local plod.

I got caught with this unreasonable insurance requirement with a motorcycle.

The bike was insured but the MOT had expired after the winter layup.

The pencilnecks at the insurance company, whose name bagan with "e" insisted that the bike would have to be trailered to the MOT station.

I requested that they check with their underwriters - same answer.

Guess how long it took me to cancel their useless policy and reinsure with a proper insurer?

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Mon 6 Nov 2017 20:29
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - Engineer Andy
My apologies if I am mistaken. My policy states I must have valid MOT. Not sure what the chances of a making a claim would be.

What happens if your MOT expires, or your car fails the MOT?

By the terms of their policy you can't legally drive it to an MOT test centre.

A neighbour (I don't know them) experienced this and I saw their car being transported on a low-loader to a local garage presumably for repair and a second MOT. Not the guy I was referring to earlier about an expired MOT - he hasn't even bothered to get one (and failed) and is still driving it. I think I'll tell local plod.

I got caught with this unreasonable insurance requirement with a motorcycle.

The bike was insured but the MOT had expired after the winter layup.

The pencilnecks at the insurance company, whose name bagan with "e" insisted that the bike would have to be trailered to the MOT station.

I requested that they check with their underwriters - same answer.

Guess how long it took me to cancel their useless policy and reinsure with a proper insurer?

Its not always unreasonable - the neighbour I spoke of - their car had failed on multiple (many) MOT items twice over a week (I think they disputed the first one as the second [I looked it up] was done at another garage), so they waited until it was too late and obviously hadn't been looking after their car (many of the failed items had been advisories in previous years, plus the usual tyres wearing to the canvas etc items, and it had failed quite often before in previous years.

Some people just can't believe their (meglected) so-called pride and joy will pass MOTs ad-infinitum with just getting it 'serviced' (if at all) at a fast fit joint for £100 a year. In this case, some of the failure items were so bad that the examiners (both times) deemed them dangerous and that the car was not roadworthy/safe.

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:42
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - FiestaOwner

Have you thought about removing the risks and getting it transported by a company like "Shiply" or "uShip"? I've never used either of these companies, so can't vouch for them.

www.shiply.com/

www.uship.com/uk

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:47
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - oldroverboy.

How about just paying the seller to mot it for you, or booking an mot near to them and mot'ing it when you collect it straight away.

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 16:51
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - FiestaOwner

How about just paying the seller to mot it for you, or booking an mot near to them and mot'ing it when you collect it straight away.

Agree with ORB's post.

If the seller won't MOT it, it's because they think it will need a lot of money spent on it to pass.

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 17:06
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - macski

Thanks, it would cost about £300 to get it transported.

I really don't need it taxed or MoTed just yet. The car has not been taxed since May and MoT expired end of July.

The only advisory on the last MoT is a slightly leaking exhaust

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 17:34
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - RobJP

Well, get flagged by ANPR systems, and you will almost certainly get prosecuted. If the police happen to be doing an enforcement day, then you're highly likely to get pulled.

Personally, if a seller was not willing to put an MOT on a car they were selling, I'd be very suspicious. The price they'd get for the car would be far higher with an MOT, so them not getting it done implies that they know it needs a lot of work carrying out.

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Sun 5 Nov 2017 13:40
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - Engineer Andy

Question - a person I know of locally (lives around the corner) owns and continues to drive a car that has had an expired MOT (according to the DVLA website) since earlier in the summer this year. Given they are also parking against the rules (including stealing another person's [not mine BTW] allocated space/visitor spaces) where we all live (and causing a real nuciance given the lack of parking generally), I am keen to report them to the authorities, as it seems they have yet to be caught by any ANPR cameras (or at least no-one has taken it further).

Whom would I report them to - the DVLA, the Police, or both, and how? Can this also be done annonymously?

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 17:36
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - scot22

I advise not to do it. Insurance companies will look to escape liability if they can. Anything could have happened to the car since the last MoT.

What if you are unlucky ? Things can happen. Can you find a similar buy where you live ?

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 18:30
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - badbusdriver

Definitely do not do it, it really is not worth the risk.

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 19:05
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - nellyjak

Don't do it...it's plain wrong.!..and I don't want you on the road with no MOT or VED...I've paid to be there...so should you.

..and I don't believe there would be no insurance impact either.

I certainly wouldn't want to put it to the test.

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 19:19
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - bathtub tom

Trade plates?

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 19:28
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - CK91437

A valid point.

Although completely illegal, and not recommeded.

It means NO DETERRENCE.

Its a no brainer. Increase the DETERRENCE and then people wouldn't do it.

Crush their car for a start, and then add on the extra punishment.

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 20:20
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - madf

A valid point.

Although completely illegal, and not recommeded.

It means NO DETERRENCE.

Its a no brainer. Increase the DETERRENCE and then people wouldn't do it.

Crush their car for a start, and then add on the extra punishment.

The ideal punishement for use of a mobile phone when driving is seizure of said mobile, destruction of SIM card and selling off phone. The aggravation involved would be a great deterrent

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Fri 3 Nov 2017 20:42
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - SLO76
I wouldn't risk it. It'll cost you a fortune in fines and any penalty points will raise the cost of your insurance. Not worth it.

Out of curiosity what is the car that you believe is worth this risk for? Must be something interesting?
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Sat 4 Nov 2017 08:40
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - pd
I wouldn't risk it. It'll cost you a fortune in fines and any penalty points will raise the cost of your insurance. Not worth it. Out of curiosity what is the car that you believe is worth this risk for? Must be something interesting?

There are no penalty points for driving without a MOT. The usual fine is £100 fixed penalty although if it goes to court it can be £1000 I think.

Of course, if there are other tjhings on the car which make it unroadworthy such as bald tyres then there are other penalties applicable.

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Sat 4 Nov 2017 09:32
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - argybargy

Not a chance I'd take, I must admit. The prospect of falling outside the law for the first time in my life would appal me, and the consequences, whilst not life changing, could be very expensive indeed.

Besides which, by doing such a thing you risk becoming a hazard, not only to yourself but to all those who pay their motoring dues and not unreasonably expect those with whom they share the road to do the same.

Someone who risks haemorrhaging credibility and respect in any motoring discussion, to wit.

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Sat 4 Nov 2017 09:56
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - Galaxy

Not worth taking the risk.

It would work out potentially far cheaper to get the car MOT'd (hopefully it will pass!) and take out six months car tax. I'm assuming you have suitable insurance ( you must check this out thoroughly before driving the car); if not, there are companies which will allow you to take out cover for just one day. Assuming the car will be SORNed once it reaches it's intended destination you will be able to claim five months Car Tax back.

Failing that then I think it's a trailer job. Must be a pretty rare car; as a matter of interest, what car is it, please?

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Sat 4 Nov 2017 13:55
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - macski

Failing that then I think it's a trailer job. Must be a pretty rare car; as a matter of interest, what car is it, please?

It is an Alfa Romeo Spider on a 05 plate. The owner works abroad and having done less then a thousand miles in it in the two years he owned it, he has now decided to sell it. He has another car.

The car is in Devon

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Sat 4 Nov 2017 15:41
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - SLO76

Failing that then I think it's a trailer job. Must be a pretty rare car; as a matter of interest, what car is it, please?

It is an Alfa Romeo Spider on a 05 plate. The owner works abroad and having done less then a thousand miles in it in the two years he owned it, he has now decided to sell it. He has another car.

The car is in Devon

Get it trailered, this really isn't worth the risk of trying. No MOT then your insurance IS invalid. There's a £1,000 penalty for driving without an Mot and no insurance is 6-8 points, a large fine and a possible ban. www.octagoninsurance.com/guide/tips/mot-means-car-.../

Edited by SLO76 on 04/11/2017 at 15:49

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Sat 4 Nov 2017 18:22
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - Avant

"....an Alfa Romeo Spider on a 05 plate."

That confirms how right the advice is not to risk it. Quite apart from the risk of getting caught with no tax / MoT, the chances of a 12-year-old Alfa, that's done <1,000 miles in thre last two years, making a 200-mile journey without breaking down are pretty minimal.

Definitely worth the expense of getting it trailered.

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Sat 4 Nov 2017 22:00
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - macski

"....an Alfa Romeo Spider on a 05 plate."

That confirms how right the advice is not to risk it. Quite apart from the risk of getting caught with no tax / MoT, the chances of a 12-year-old Alfa, that's done <1,000 miles in thre last two years, making a 200-mile journey without breaking down are pretty minimal.

Definitely worth the expense of getting it trailered.

Why would it not make it?

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Sat 4 Nov 2017 22:18
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - SLO76
"Why would it not make it?"

Part of the joy of running an old Alfa is not knowing quite where you'll end up. You can be lucky but most are ruinously unreliable things at this age. There's zero chance of it being in a roadworthy state, if it was then the seller would Mot it themselves and gain a higher sale price. Forget the stories the seller has told you, the only reason someone ever sells a motor with no Mot is because they know it's going to cost too much to put it through themselves.

Edited by SLO76 on 04/11/2017 at 22:20

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Sat 4 Nov 2017 22:36
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - veloceman
While I still totally object to driving back without the necessary legal requirements - there is no reason why the Spider would not make it. Far more robust than folk on her give it credit for.

I drove my newly purchased '99 3.0 GTV back from Scotland after similar mileage over a two year period. Though was fully MOTd taxed and insured before I set off!

18yrs old now, never missed a beat in the two years I owned her.
And don't forget Daily Mail top 5 most reliable brand!

Top car, keep legal and enjoy!
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Sat 4 Nov 2017 23:30
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - SLO76
Like I say, you can get lucky... most don't though. Doesn't diminish my love for 156's, GTV's, Spiders or 164's however. Buy it and enjoy it but don't do so if you believe it can be done on a shoestring, this is a labour of love. Do it right and preserve a beautiful future classic. It'll be depreciation free motoring but it'll sting you for repairs regularly.
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Sun 5 Nov 2017 09:35
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - scot22

I am wondering if OK is genuine or playing some game. Seems not to need advice. Perhaps time to finish.

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Sun 5 Nov 2017 10:17
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - FoxyJukebox

For some 18 months I have been reporting a car without tax or MOT through the formal websites . It remains on the road undetected.

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Sun 5 Nov 2017 10:35
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - JEREMYH

One of the guys on UK Saabs forum laste week posted he was stopped with no MOT when it was five days late after he forgot the MOT it is not worth the risk

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Sun 5 Nov 2017 14:53
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - argybargy

A few years ago a person who lived round the corner from me was running a building business. I say "building": basically his work was shoddy, his workforce were scallywags and his attitude when things went wrong was to tough it out till the complainant gave up. The local paper ran a feature on the consequences some local people had suffered after they foolishly allowed this cretin to work in their houses.

He had a security light outside his house which was on 24 hours a day, and which was angled upwards so that it shone into our bedroom. I went round one day, politely asked him to adjust it downwards, he said he would and as I closed the garden gate I heard him tell his wife in a voice which I was clearly intended to hear that I could "eff off".

. Anyhow, he kept several vans in the street of an evening and not one of them had an unexpired tax disc, so no insurance or MOT either, most likely. This situation continued for months until the authorities had a general purge in the area and started clamping untaxed vehicles. At least two of this clown's vans were gone within days, and as a bonus he, his swivel-eyed wife and screeching children moved out a few weeks later.

So enforcement does work when the authorities can be bothered, and I'd be very glad to hear that if someone ventures onto the road untaxed, without MOT or insurance, they wouldn't get any further than the nearest nick.

Edited by argybargy on 05/11/2017 at 14:57

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Sun 5 Nov 2017 22:05
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - njgleeds
It is perfectly legal and acceptable to prebook a MOT test at your local test centre and proceed to drive it there.
Plenty of armchair lawyers will argue that it isn’t allowed but I can assure you it most definitely is.
HTH.
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Sun 5 Nov 2017 22:47
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - scot22

Yes it is allowed. However this would certainly not be the local centre by any stretch of the imagination.

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Sun 5 Nov 2017 23:05
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - SLO76
It is perfectly legal and acceptable to prebook a MOT test at your local test centre and proceed to drive it there. Plenty of armchair lawyers will argue that it isn’t allowed but I can assure you it most definitely is. HTH.

Police tend to frown on it travelling any further than necessary so if you book an Mot locally to where you're picking up the car then yes you can drive it to a local test centre but no you can't just book it in near your home then drive 200 miles for example. Get pulled over trying this and you'll get your collar felt.
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Sun 5 Nov 2017 23:55
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - njgleeds
Sorry, but it is perfectly legal to drive to a pre-arranged MOT at the other end of the country with no offence being committed.
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Mon 6 Nov 2017 08:57
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - pd

There is no stipulation that the MOT centre needs to be near. It is a dodgy area certainly but it is not stated in any laws.

Back to the car in question for the price difference it is probably better to transport. It isn't going to cost £300 more than collecting it. Collection has it's costs - tramsport there (if by train then train fare, taxis, buses etc.), it will need to be insured, fuel costs, breakdown cover (recommended) and it if does pack up and all go horribly wrong could get expensive plus a day of your time. By the time you've added it all up it probably wouldn't cost much more to get it collected.

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Mon 6 Nov 2017 09:42
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - Bromptonaut
Sorry, but it is perfectly legal to drive to a pre-arranged MOT at the other end of the country with no offence being committed.

This is true but the purpose of the law is to allow an MoT expired car to be taken to a local garage. Going from one end of country to another may comply with letter but is against spirit. A driver stopped on such a mission invites a close inspection of whole of vehicle and his papers with a tooth comb.

And the concession is no defence against being non roadworthy.

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Mon 6 Nov 2017 09:45
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - SLO76
Sorry, but it is perfectly legal to drive to a pre-arranged MOT at the other end of the country with no offence being committed.

Try doing so and if you are pulled over the police will go over the car with a fine tooth comb. You'll be charged for driving an unroadworthy vehicle if they find anything. They're not stupid, it goes against basic common sense that you'd drive a car with no Mot to a test centre hundreds of miles away. This shouldn't be encouraged in any way shape or form, it could be a death trap! Get it trailered, I'm amazed and disappointed by the number of people arguing in favour of this.

Edited by SLO76 on 06/11/2017 at 10:15

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Mon 6 Nov 2017 10:40
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - argybargy

Coming soon: a new type of vacation.The holiday/ MOT combined package: enjoy a few nights in a top class hotel on the South coast, or perhaps in the Highlands, and have your ticket renewed by a"local" garage at the same time.

"How many MOT stations did you drive past to get here, Sir? Two hundred and fifty? The bus stop is just around the corner, the railway station a half mile walk. Now give me your car keys; good luck carrying all that luggage".

Edited by argybargy on 06/11/2017 at 10:44

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Mon 6 Nov 2017 11:15
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - SLO76

Coming soon: a new type of vacation.The holiday/ MOT combined package: enjoy a few nights in a top class hotel on the South coast, or perhaps in the Highlands, and have your ticket renewed by a"local" garage at the same time.

"How many MOT stations did you drive past to get here, Sir? Two hundred and fifty? The bus stop is just around the corner, the railway station a half mile walk. Now give me your car keys; good luck carrying all that luggage".

:-) Wishing I'd kept that old scrapper Mondeo I gave £10 against a Mitsubishi Carisma last year. No Mot, no chance of ever getting one. Punter had been offered zero by local scrap yards so I gave him a tenner. Little did I know I could've saved a fortune in train fares on me last trip down south simply by booking it into a test centre near my hotel. Silly me.
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Mon 6 Nov 2017 14:01
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - pd

I don't think many are encouraging anyone to do it, just merely pointing out that the law does not specify any distance or other criteria for where a pre-booked MOT needs to be. It simply doesn't. The question was asked and anwered.

That doesn't alter any other necessary compliance as far as roadworthiness is concerned which applies and is a seperate matter as to whether a car has a MOT or not or make it a good idea to do it.

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Mon 6 Nov 2017 16:29
No Tax or MoT, what are the chances... - Cris_on_the_gas

Straight answer you would get away with it in 99% of cases.

Same for burglary and other such crimes, about 90% of cases are never solved.

Would I take the chance, definitely not in each situation !

Edited by Cris_on_the_gas on 06/11/2017 at 16:32

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