Average Speed Cameras

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Sun 17 Sep 2017 14:46
Average Speed Cameras - RSNitrous
If it is the case, if you were travelling several miles within an ASC zone at say 50mph maximum speed limit, and for 3/4 of that distance there was a traffic crawl and you didn't go over 10 mph, could you then go at 70 mph for the last 1/4 and not get a ticket? Or do these cameras act like speed cameras as well and ticket you if you break the speed limit?
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Sun 17 Sep 2017 14:56
Average Speed Cameras - craig-pd130

The yellow cameras on gantries work on number-plate recognition and the average speed between two sets of cameras, not on the instantaneous speed past a given camera.

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Sun 17 Sep 2017 15:27
Average Speed Cameras - Bolt

and the average speed between two sets of cameras

calculates time it takes as well, so if you go past a camera in a faster time than it thinks you should, your nicked...

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Sun 17 Sep 2017 17:53
Average Speed Cameras - FP

Measuring average speed means what it says, and AFAIK there is no "instantaneous-read" facility in an average-speed camera.

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Sun 17 Sep 2017 18:19
Average Speed Cameras - Bromptonaut

As stated above the cameras on yellow gantries as in M/way roadworks and certain other locations simply record your registration number and a nano second accurate time stamp. The system then compares your times at successive cameras. So if limit is 60 and you pass cameras 2 miles apart in less than 2 minutes you're up fpr a ticket (subject to 10% + 1mph or whatever tolerance is in use.

I am a regular user of the M1 J16-19 and vv which has had a 50 limit for years due sequential work to replace centre barrier and THEN up grade to smart motorway. The ASC capture zone is floodlit but the lit area is far too short for any realtime speed capture, neither are there any markers on the road as will becase when gantry cameras on the smart section are in use.

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Sun 17 Sep 2017 18:59
Average Speed Cameras - Bolt

these are becoming more common

www.speedcamerasuk.com/hadecs-3.htm

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Sun 17 Sep 2017 21:20
Average Speed Cameras - Bromptonaut

these are becoming more common

www.speedcamerasuk.com/hadecs-3.htm

I suspect these are going in on M1 15A to 19 due to go live as smart motorway later this year.

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Sun 17 Sep 2017 23:41
Average Speed Cameras - Smileyman

it's a very good question ... by definition these cameras measure time taken to travel from camera A to camera b and if arrival at b is too quick for the speed limit in force then a ticket will be issued, however in time they could also be adapted for instant speed measurement too, however (as already stated) without a means of measuring your speed - (usually done by time to travel across some white lines painted on the road) then there are no concerns of a ticket being issued at the point of passing the camera

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Sun 17 Sep 2017 23:51
Average Speed Cameras - gordonbennet

Years ago, before they went out of business, i bought a stand alone DriveSmart speed camera locator (by GPS database not a radar detector).

It had an unusual facility in that it worked out your speed over the course of average cameras, so for example if there was a roundabout in between the cameras, you could if you so wish speed up before and after the roundabout and know the exact moment to resume correct speed to keep the average right, quite natty litte device really...though i should have guessed they would go bust cos updates were free for life.

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Mon 18 Sep 2017 00:05
Average Speed Cameras - galileo

As these 50 mph average speed camers are supposedly installed "for the protection of road workers" why are these not deactivated when there is not a single worker to be seen in the entire length of the roadworks?

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Mon 18 Sep 2017 09:51
Average Speed Cameras - Bromptonaut

As these 50 mph average speed camers are supposedly installed "for the protection of road workers" why are these not deactivated when there is not a single worker to be seen in the entire length of the roadworks?

While protection of workforce is part of rationale it's not the whole story. The long term M1 works I referenced above also involve narrow lanes, neither hard shoulder nor the cameras/software for all lane running and regular changes in work sites, access and junction alignment.

In spite of all that it runs better with the 50 limit than it did previously. Same goes for M6 J16/19 also currently being upgraded to smart m/way.

And just 'cos you don't see a worker it doesn't mean there are none there.

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Mon 18 Sep 2017 00:28
Average Speed Cameras - Bolt

however in time they could also be adapted for instant speed measurement too,

afaia, radar cameras already know what speed your doing without the need for lines in the road, as the rader scans so fast it can measure your speed between the scans

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Mon 18 Sep 2017 09:54
Average Speed Cameras - Fishermans Bend

Average speed cameras are sometimes used to reduce emissions.

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Mon 18 Sep 2017 10:15
Average Speed Cameras - Bolt

Average speed cameras are sometimes used to reduce emissions.

Once 5G comes in, hopefully next year, most cars by then will be able to be controlled by a local wi fi transmitter that will be able to keep a car at a certain speed according to local speed limit

Cameras then will not be needed, or once (some are being fitted with it allready) auto adaptive cruise control which adjusts speed according to the car in front.

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Mon 18 Sep 2017 10:28
Average Speed Cameras - Fishermans Bend

Once 5G comes in, hopefully next year, most cars by then will be able to be controlled by a local wi fi transmitter that will be able to keep a car at a certain speed according to local speed limit.

How?

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Mon 18 Sep 2017 12:12
Average Speed Cameras - Sofa Spud

Intelligent speed limiters on vehicles, which keep them within the limit on an given stretch of road are likely find their way onto cars long before fully self-driving cars become mainstream.

We already have cars that are autonomy-capable and several cars have lane departure and anti collision aids. So, in comparison, it shouldn't be too difficult to make cars that automatically obey the speed limit while a human is actually driving. Lorries and buses have fixed speed limiters, while SatNavs inform you what the speed limit is wherever you are. Marry the two technologies together and you have an intelligent speed limiter.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 18/09/2017 at 12:18

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Wed 27 Sep 2017 00:08
Average Speed Cameras - gordonbennet

Marry the two technologies together and you have an intelligent speed limiter.

Some vehicles will be capable of 69.75mph in a 70 zone and some 70.25 with other limits similar discrepancies, so all those who have complained about lorry elephant racing will find out for themselves what living with speed limiters has been like, enjoy.

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Tue 26 Sep 2017 19:33
Average Speed Cameras - 520i

Once 5G comes in, hopefully next year, most cars by then will be able to be controlled by a local wi fi transmitter that will be able to keep a car at a certain speed according to local speed limit

Cameras then will not be needed, or once (some are being fitted with it allready) auto adaptive cruise control which adjusts speed according to the car in front.

I doubt it somehow. No revenue stream to be had there.

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Mon 18 Sep 2017 14:29
Average Speed Cameras - Bromptonaut

Average speed cameras are sometimes used to reduce emissions.

Speed limits are used to reduce emissions. ASCs monitor the speed :-)

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Mon 18 Sep 2017 14:49
Average Speed Cameras - Fishermans Bend

Average speed cameras are sometimes used to reduce emissions.

Speed limits are used to reduce emissions. ASCs monitor the speed :-)

Bromptonaut, thanks for the correction. :)

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Tue 19 Sep 2017 11:01
Average Speed Cameras - daveyjp

A friend did exactly this in the M60/M62 roadworks - at a crawl for miles so no way he averaged more than 50mph. Traffic then cleared and knowing he was well below the average with not far to go in the restricted area he increased speed.

His NIP arrived a few days later. There was an instant speed camera located next to the last average camera.

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Mon 25 Sep 2017 18:46
Average Speed Cameras - concrete

A friend did exactly this in the M60/M62 roadworks - at a crawl for miles so no way he averaged more than 50mph. Traffic then cleared and knowing he was well below the average with not far to go in the restricted area he increased speed.

His NIP arrived a few days later. There was an instant speed camera located next to the last average camera.

That is a sneaky one. In Scotland, on the M74, the 'plod' set up a camera van on an overhead road bridge, then 2 bridges down another one. They work on the theory that when motorists pass the first van they speed up thinking that is all the surviellance there is. Sneaky or what! I have watched many a poor soul hare off after the first van and I know what awaits them.

The average speed cameras on sections of motorway being upgraded work really well, especially during busy periods. They do tend to keep the traffic flowing. The problem is late at night when the traffic is much reduced, it feels like you could walk faster!! In many ways I prefer them to instant speed cameras. They keep the 'brake and accellerate' merchants in check and unless you are a complete fool they are easy to comply with.

Anyone remember the national speed limit of 50mpg during the oil crisis in the early 70's? Quite amazing the fuel economy achieved during that period, it gave me pause for thought.

Cheers Concrete

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Mon 25 Sep 2017 21:16
Average Speed Cameras - Engineer Andy

A friend did exactly this in the M60/M62 roadworks - at a crawl for miles so no way he averaged more than 50mph. Traffic then cleared and knowing he was well below the average with not far to go in the restricted area he increased speed.

His NIP arrived a few days later. There was an instant speed camera located next to the last average camera.

That is a sneaky one. In Scotland, on the M74, the 'plod' set up a camera van on an overhead road bridge, then 2 bridges down another one. They work on the theory that when motorists pass the first van they speed up thinking that is all the surviellance there is. Sneaky or what! I have watched many a poor soul hare off after the first van and I know what awaits them.

The average speed cameras on sections of motorway being upgraded work really well, especially during busy periods. They do tend to keep the traffic flowing. The problem is late at night when the traffic is much reduced, it feels like you could walk faster!! In many ways I prefer them to instant speed cameras. They keep the 'brake and accellerate' merchants in check and unless you are a complete fool they are easy to comply with.

Anyone remember the national speed limit of 50mpg during the oil crisis in the early 70's? Quite amazing the fuel economy achieved during that period, it gave me pause for thought.

Cheers Concrete

I only remember (born in '73) my dad queuing up with many other people for up to 30 mins to buy petrol. To be fair, his Ford Escort 1.1 Popular Plus (with wing mirrors on both sides and 'lovely' vinyl seats [peachy in summer - not!] - Whooo!) could bearly get up to 70mph, especially on a gradient. 50 sounds much better, especially when it was fully laden up with the family going to the seaside down the motorway or dual carriageways. I do remember when we had the 'petrol strikes' back in 2000 (I think?) that people temporarily did slow down to conserve fuel (10 litre fill ups max, bad for the Jags of this world, great for me an my very frugal Micra at the time), and again during the 'great' recession/financial crisis a few years ago. Never lasts though.

Anyhoo, on my way back from my recent 'holiday' (essentially a wash-out) in the West Country, I noticed when going round the M25 in the variable speed section that many drivers were itching to speed up the second they could see the gantry in front had increased its limit (say) from 50 to 60mph. What are the rules on this - should rivers keep to the maximum speed set at the previous gantry until they pass under the next (I assumed so, though did speed up a bit but was only doing an indicated average of 48mph (probably nearer to 44-45mph actual). I did read here that the gantries have a 'timer' in which they had a 'grace period' for such events, but it wasn't verified. Would be nice to know what is really the case.

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