Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Sun 20 Aug 2017 11:34

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - balleballe

The clutch in my 08 civic has packed in and I've been informed it's likely the DMF, including Labour that's around £1000

The car is probably worth a tad over 2k so I've been advised to get rid as it is and buy another car.

I've narrowed it down to the following 3 cars;

9th gen civic, accord or a c-class.

I've got around 6k available which would buy me an accord/c class 2010 plate with around 90k on the clock. With the newer civic it would get me a 13 plate.

I prefer diesel as I do around 25k a year, and I need a boot size at least similar to my existing car.

Reliability is of paramount importance but looks come into play obviously.

I've test driven the newer civic and it's a nice car, but the 1.6d lacks the power I'm used to in my 2.2. It's not necessarily a deal breaker though as I know it's very economical.

Any real life user feedback on the models mentioned or advice/opinions are much welcomed.

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 12:18

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - Happy Blue!

Ah, man maths strikes again!

Would you really take on a seven year old Mercedes to do 25,000 miles a year? To me that's sounds like a way to throw money away.

If you oy have £6,000 I would take along hard look at the existing car. Is anything else wrong? If you fixed the clutch are you likely to see at least say 18 months more with it? If so, I would save the cash, run the old car until something really irreparable goes wrong and save up to spend more money on a newer car later on.

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 12:20

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - gordonbennet

^^ what Happy Blue said.

Devil you know and all that.

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 12:25

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - FiestaOwner

Bear in mind a 7 year old car with 90,000 miles on it, might need a new clutch and DMF soon! Depends how it's been used and driven.

Edited by FiestaOwner on 20/08/2017 at 12:26

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 12:35

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - SLO76

What mileage is on your current Civic? Unless it's been to the Moon and back it's got to be worth fixing. If the clutch is away and indeed the DMF then it has no value without fixing it.

As for buying a 9th gen Civic for £6k well the only diesels available for that money are all around 100,000 miles. It could need a new clutch or DPF anytime. Either keep what you've got or spend more (at least £7,500) and buy a lower mileage 1.6 DTEC which is the better engine. It has plenty of pull, uses less fuel and is Honda's second gen diesel and thus more advanced and was designed with having a DPF from the start and is thus less likely to cause grief later on than the older 2.2. That's not to say the 2.2 is a bad engine but the 1.6 is just a step upwards in every way except outright performance where the bigger motor has the edge.

Buying any car equipped with a diesel particulate filter with approaching six figures on the clock is a risk I wouldn't advise anyone to take and as far as buying a £6,000 Mercedes diesel I'll blank the suggestion. It's unwise in the extreme to buy a premium badge diesel on a tight budget like this. It will almost certainly be a total money pit. Keep clear!

Edited by SLO76 on 20/08/2017 at 12:47

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 12:35

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - Bolt

I had the 2006 Civic 2.2 where the DMF went but it had other problems so I got the 9th gen Civic tourer, just the same car as the hatch but more room in boot, the 1.6 diesel imo is a good engine and mpg has got better over the time ive had it-19 months 23k miles

I wasnt getting to start with more than the 2.2 did, but now is doing 56mpg in town with a heavy foot, over 65 if I take it easy, ive had 74mpg on a run but it could do better if I took my time, ps I wouldnt use eco mode as it really slows it down, but thats personal preference

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 13:41

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - balleballe

I was looking at a 09 plate c class w204. DPF was fitted on 59 plates and later. Has a FSH and clutch along with DMF was replaced 10k miles ago. Has FSH.

With the civic, 6k gets me a 1.6 with 80k on the clock or a 2.2 with similar mileage.

There's nothing else wrong with my car, but it gives me a chance to get rid as it's developed a strange clunk from the drivers side suspension but the shock is fine, have been advised it may be the bushes. And it's a very noisy car indeed! Cars done 127k miles I've had it since 80k, around 2 years.

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 14:03

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - SLO76

The earlier W203 C class was DPF equipped in later years so I'd suspect (but can't be certain) that all W204's would have it from launch in 2007. It is a better made car but a quick look at HJ's review and list of what goes wrong and time spend searching various forums will reveal loads of potential problems. A complex diesel car that cost close to £30k is not a wise but at £6,000. I've seen loads of people make this mistake and almost every time its cost them dear. My advice after 23yrs of selling cars is... keep it simple.

The Civic is a car I'd recommend but again you are at the bottom of the barrel here for a diesel Mk 9. Spending more up front for a better car is more advisable than dealing with the issues you'll potentially find on a budget price high miler. You'll be pushed to find a good 80,000 mile car with Honda history and complex cars like these need maintenance records with people who understand them. A genuine Honda or diesel specialist would be fine.

As for your own car. It's no write off. A clutch is a wear and tear item and that knock from the front will likely just be a bush which is buttons to replace. I'd spend the money to fix it (it'll cost you more not to) then run it until you can afford a good example of the later Civic. They're dropping in value faster now due to the new model.

Edited by SLO76 on 20/08/2017 at 14:13

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 15:45

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - balleballe

The earlier W203 C class was DPF equipped in later years so I'd suspect (but can't be certain) that all W204's would have it from launch in 2007.

I take your advice on board, thank you. From my understanding the w203 with a 2.2 was never equipped with a DPF unless the buyer specified it, as it was an opptional extra. They were in all 59 plates and onwards when the 'blue efficiency' were rolled out'

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 16:18

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - SLO76

"I take your advice on board, thank you. From my understanding the w203 with a 2.2 was never equipped with a DPF unless the buyer specified it, as it was an opptional extra. They were in all 59 plates and onwards when the 'blue efficiency' were rolled out'"

There seems to be confusion about this. I've looked on a few other Merc related forums and it seems they were fitted to the W203 initially as an option then as standard but they were deleted when issues started becoming commonplace. I always believed the W204 had them from new on every diesel model but again this seems disputed with even Mercedes service departments giving out inaccurate information on the subject according to some owners. Guess the only option is to look for one when you're viewing. let us know what you find.

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 15:00

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - corax

I was looking at a 09 plate c class w204. DPF was fitted on 59 plates and later. Has a FSH and clutch along with DMF was replaced 10k miles ago. Has FSH.

Manual Mercedes aren't loved. Unless you run it into the ground it won't be easy to sell later.

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 15:12

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - jamie745

I wouldn't think of the two as being particularly similar cars so it's tricky to compare them directly. The Mercedes will be the better car of the two, I'm not a fan of any diesel but Mercedes probably do make the best ones.

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 21:31

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - drd63

Or you could lease and get similar size car, reliable, economical. 25k annual miles would probably cost £220pm + 6 months.

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Sun 20 Aug 2017 23:38

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - balleballe

I am tempted to buy a 66 plate civic 1.6 sports for around 12k, put down half as deposit and finance the rest, but I currently have a mortgage being arranged so can't as it will not be looked kindly upon and likely result in a refusal from the bank.

I'm driving my wife's Mazda 2 for now as I need to commute to work and its woefully underpowered on a roads/motorways. Takes the enjoyment out of driving for me.

The timing is just bad, especially since I replaced the clutch and DMF around 45k ago, costing me around 850. The clutch and DMF is a known weak spot on this engine.

Edited by balleballe on 20/08/2017 at 23:39

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Mon 21 Aug 2017 00:44

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - SLO76

"The timing is just bad, especially since I replaced the clutch and DMF around 45k ago, costing me around 850. The clutch and DMF is a known weak spot on this engine."

The clutch is but it should last longer than 45k! Either you're hard on clutches or the quality of the replacement was substandard.

There's fun to be had from driving a low powered motor. Keeping it on the boil and relying on skill and a little foresight to keep flowing along is fun especially if it's a second gen Mazda 2 you're talking about. These are a hoot to drive.

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Mon 21 Aug 2017 07:00

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - balleballe

It's common for the clutches to fail. Honda have released 2 revised version of the clutch since the civics first launch in 2005. I had genuine Honda (made by LUK) parts fitted.

I don't think I'm hard on the clutch (to my knowledge). It's just known that Honda have always had issues in this area, hence 2 revised versions of the clutch. Even the most recent clutch (ends in part number 325) tends to fail prematurely.

My last two cars were petrol mazdas and between them I covered 130k with no clutch issues

It's the 2nd gen Mazda 2, its fun to drive in and around town...bit like a go kart. Yesterday on the way back from work I was in 5th gear at 70ish. A slight incline on the motorway came about and I had to floor the accelerator pedal just to stick to 70 as it was dropping speed quickly.

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Mon 21 Aug 2017 10:44

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - Engineer Andy

It's common for the clutches to fail. Honda have released 2 revised version of the clutch since the civics first launch in 2005. I had genuine Honda (made by LUK) parts fitted.

I don't think I'm hard on the clutch (to my knowledge). It's just known that Honda have always had issues in this area, hence 2 revised versions of the clutch. Even the most recent clutch (ends in part number 325) tends to fail prematurely.

My last two cars were petrol mazdas and between them I covered 130k with no clutch issues

It's the 2nd gen Mazda 2, its fun to drive in and around town...bit like a go kart. Yesterday on the way back from work I was in 5th gear at 70ish. A slight incline on the motorway came about and I had to floor the accelerator pedal just to stick to 70 as it was dropping speed quickly.

It might be the 75PS version, which I drove as a courtesy car for the day when my Mazda3 mk1 was getting a new wheel bearing and brake components - it too was fine except when going up a reasonable hill on the local dual carriageway - rather than floor it in 5th, I found it better to drop to 4th, which used less gas pedal and gave me more control. To be honest most small cars with engines like that will struggle up hills - the more powerful 90PS version would probably be fine though, as is my larger 3 with its 1.6 petrol engine with 104PS, similar performance to the Civic (slightly slower as its a bigger car than the Civic at that time).

Personally speaking I'd stick to the devil you know, replace the worn part(s) for a lot less than you'd spend on a relatively unknown (how it was previously driven at least) car that could fail expensively soon after purchase, which it sound like you don't have the funds to cover. Put the difference towards a far newer car and continue to save up.

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Mon 21 Aug 2017 11:09

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - SLO76

"It's the 2nd gen Mazda 2, its fun to drive in and around town...bit like a go kart. Yesterday on the way back from work I was in 5th gear at 70ish. A slight incline on the motorway came about and I had to floor the accelerator pedal just to stick to 70 as it was dropping speed quickly."

Not a chore really and the wee Mazda has one the nicest gearboxes you'll find. You don't need much power on motorways, even a 1.2 Panda can sit at 90mph all day. I get the appeal of the Civic 2.2 diesels stump pulling torque though. It's pretty effortless and great for B road overtaking. I'd still fix your own car. It'll be worth more than the cost to fix it so you're cost neutral for doing so.

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Mon 21 Aug 2017 11:32

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - corax

I would be unhappy with 45k out of a clutch, spending £1800 total to keep the car going over 45k miles plus all the usual servicing. Maybe Honda under specified it on these models? That engine is pretty torquey.

Small engined cars need a technique on fast road work. The engine needs to be kept in the power band when approaching hills. It doesn't mean the higher revs are harming the engine, Japanese engines are designed for it, but some people feel that they are straining the thing. Far better to do that than drive in top gear at 1000 revs with the whole drivetrain juddering in the false belief that economy will be better.

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Mon 21 Aug 2017 12:56

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - Wackyracer

If it was me, I'd get a single mass flywheel fitted. It might not be quite as refined as the dual mass unit but, it will out live the car.

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Mon 21 Aug 2017 15:56

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - balleballe

I've looked into an SMF. The standard clutch won't work with it apparently. The 'uprated' clutches have their own issues due to failing pressure plates. Lots of people have had it done then the pressure plate fails, not to mention the super stiff clutch pedal due to the increase in clamping force.

Edited by balleballe on 21/08/2017 at 16:21

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Mon 21 Aug 2017 22:44

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - sajid

have you tried cox motors the do a all in price supply and fit clutch and dmf for £877 inc vat.

i would keep my car and pay for having a replacement clutch, rather than spending a couplr of thousand of pounds for a newer car.

I have a 2009 2,2 civic ex, and just recently had the front brake and rear brakes changed that is complete pads and disks.

The problems on your car seem to be wear and tear its more cost effective to replace the parts and keep it running longer

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Tue 29 Aug 2017 09:38

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - balleballe

Thanks Sajid.

Yeah, I'm aware Cox are the cheapest. I get a further 5% discount with them as well as I'm a member of the 'civinfo' forum. That's where I'd get it from. Local Honda dealer up here (vertu) want £1450 for the same job using the same parts!

IIRC Cox comes in at £843

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Tue 29 Aug 2017 10:10

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - Engineer Andy

Thanks Sajid.

Yeah, I'm aware Cox are the cheapest. I get a further 5% discount with them as well as I'm a member of the 'civinfo' forum. That's where I'd get it from. Local Honda dealer up here (vertu) want £1450 for the same job using the same parts!

IIRC Cox comes in at £843

£1450 at a main dealer against £843 at the indie - ouch! I can understand they charge more for labour, but given the price of the parts should be the same, that's an awful lot extra. I thought the clutch replacement in my Mazda3 was expensive at £650ish (within £20 approx. between the main dealer and local indie), but nearly £1500...they obviously don't want your business!

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Tue 29 Aug 2017 10:43

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - focussed

Cox Honda aren't an indie - they are a genuine Honda dealer.

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Tue 29 Aug 2017 11:18

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - SLO76

Cox Honda aren't an indie - they are a genuine Honda dealer.

Always worth shopping around with main dealers... half hour on the phone can save a fortune.

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Tue 29 Aug 2017 12:48

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - Engineer Andy

Cox Honda aren't an indie - they are a genuine Honda dealer.

In that case, more fool the other main dealer! Either that or there's a lot of mugs in the other dealer's 'catchment area' who can't be bothered to shop around. Almost 'Germanic' in their treatment of customers in my view...eventually if you take them for granted they'll move elsewhere.

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Tue 29 Aug 2017 23:37

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - balleballe

'Vertu Honda group' have a few franchises up in the North East. I rang a few dealers to get an idea of pricing

Marshalls (Yorkshire) charge £1197

Brown brothers (Scotland) charge £1120

And Cox (Lancashire) are £877 (less 5%)

What I find strange is that the North East has the highest rate of unemployment and thus disposable income yet the dealers are the most expensive. Even one I rang in London (just out of curiosity) was around 100 notes cheaper than them!

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Wed 30 Aug 2017 22:47

Honda/Mercedes - Another which car thread. - Big John

If you do replace the clutch make sure the concentric slave cylinder is part of the kit. They can and do fail and its a gearbox off job again if it does. Cheap whilst the clutch is being replaced

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