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Back in late 2007 I was planning to replace my car and had several on the shortlist including the Civic diesel. Also on the list were the Golf 2.0 diesel, Auris diesel and as a left field choice the BMW 118D. Drove all and basically the Civic was OK but the ride was terrible and it was noisy, the Auris OK but the interior plastics and carpets were about the same quality as our old Micra (also dealer was a liar), the Golf was OK but the interior quality was shocking but BMW was fine in every respect and the dealer was especially good giving broker size discounts once I told him he was too expensive. The Golf, Civic and BMW had pretty much identical performance but the Auris was notcably slower.
We had the BMW almost 6 years and never felt it lacked performance.
Move onto 2013 and its time to move the BMW on. Did not want (or need) another diesel but still wanted a torquey engine with plenty of go so decided the new VAG 1.4 TSI 140 may fit the bill but also considered the Volvo V40 petrol turbo. Went to the local VW dealer who as usual was a total muppet and we left without really discussing anthing and he would not even give us a brochure. Went to the Volvo dealer who told us he did not sell petrols but then went next door to the Seat dealer who like the VW dealer was total muppet but we liked the car so decided to try another dealer. This dealer had exactly the car we wanted so along we went and within a few hundred yards I knew I was going to buy a car with that engine, it was magic. faster than the BMW 118D and quieter. Did a deal a couple of days later via a broker since the 2nd Seat dealer was also a muppet.
Kept the Seat almost 4 years. Probably the best car I have ever owned. The engine was without a doubt the best I have ever driven, averaged almost 45 mpg over the time I had it.
Replaced it with a Skoda Superb with the 150 PS 1.4 TSi, I want no other engine.
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Thank you. Please can I ask what mpg you get from the superb? And does it give a decent kick when you put your foot down?!
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My self - I've averaged 45.9 mpg over nearly 30kmiles on a previous gen Superb 1.4tsi - on the newer engine its even better
I also commute 32miles about twice a week and do a similar mileage - I won't be buying another diesel - however diesel v petrol have different drive styles
NB on the petrol tsi - if you hammer it expect mpg to be battered more than on a diesel.
Edited by Big John on 04/07/2017 at 22:59
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A few muppets there Skidpan
I do often wonder how dealers ever sell any cars TBH, given my own limited experience of dealing with their salesmen. I would suggest they are similar to politicians but without the PPE degree from Oxbridge, (i.e. most of them are hopeless and would be cleaning bogs if it wasn't for the hair-gel, sharp suit and pointy shoes)?
Edited by nick62 on 04/07/2017 at 23:00
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Thank you. Please can I ask what mpg you get from the superb? And does it give a decent kick when you put your foot down?
Only done about 3000 miles so far but its improving and so far appears to be an overall average of about 44 mpg.
Put your foot down and it goes very well indeed pulling cleanly and strongly from 1500 rpm to the red line at 6000 rpm with no turbo lag and no real power drop off. Never had a diesel that did that.
In fairness the Leon was quicker but it was a fair boit smaller and lighter so it should have been. The extra 10 PS the Skoda has is only at peak power, (the torque is identical at identical revs) so is not relevent in the real world.
Only way to decide if you like one is to get a decent test drive preferably in an example that has done a few thousand miles.
i.e. most of them are hopeless and would be cleaning bogs if it wasn't for the hair-gel, sharp suit and pointy shoes
That describes one salesman we dealt with in the mid 90's at our local VW garage perfectly. But despite a poor start when we first went into the showroom he quickly realised we were genuine buyers and upped his game. He sold us 2 new VW;s within 6 months. Unfortunately when we went back 6 years later he had left and the idiots working there did not have a clue so we went and bought 2 Fords from supermarkets.
Edited by skidpan on 05/07/2017 at 10:00
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Posted this elsewhere on the forum, but also relevant here...
I have a Skoda Superb Estate Petrol 1.4 TSI 150 DSG.
I swapped from a 2013 Euro 5 Passat Estate 2.0 TDI DSG, (not emissions modified).
I was very doubful about the small engine, but on my test drive before purchase, I could detect no big difference in use.
I have just returned from 3,000 miles European trip in 4 weeks, mainly in Germany on autobahns. I had no problem keeping up and mostly the Skoda was operating at similar revs to the Passat (which I had also driven in Germany).
Because it is automatic, you do not notice lower torque, if needed (rarely) it just changes gear, perhaps on a steep hill (and you barely notice that).
Consumption is around 45 mpg, not much lower than the Passat.
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As I read the posts the one question I'm asking is "how long will the engine last". Provided it is looked after, serviced properly, will it make 125k miles? or perhaps 150k? with SEAT it is possible to extend to the warranty to 90k miles - granted this may be a less stressed engine than the 1.0 and 1.2 engines, but will that give it the extra longevity?
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As I read the posts the one question I'm asking is "how long will the engine last". Provided it is looked after, serviced properly, will it make 125k miles? or perhaps 150k? with SEAT it is possible to extend to the warranty to 90k miles - granted this may be a less stressed engine than the 1.0 and 1.2 engines, but will that give it the extra longevity?
I cannot understand all this scaremongering about the longevity of TSi engines. Its an engine just like any other. It has exactly the same number of moving parts. VAG have changed the design from the troublesome cam chain back to a belt and deleted the stupid twin charged version (which in all honesty had most of its issues caused by stupid owners who chipped them). Maintain it correctly using the correct parts and oils (change the cam belt as required) and there is no reason whey it should not do a galactic mileage.
But as always we will hear nothing of the troublefree engines. All we will hear about are the unfortunate cases and cases where cars have been badly maintained or not maintained at all leading to issues. This in VAG's case then becomes the norm bacause of the VAG hated on this forum.
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There is a general concern about the longevity of any turbo-petrol as it develops so much more power/litre and torque/litre - it will depend, obviously, on how well the designers have done the internal parts but that is a harder task as the "footprint" of a turbo-petrol is so much smaller than a non-turbo-petrol of similar power/torque and things like bearings can't be increased in size to cope with the extra stresses.
Those concerns are the same across all brands that use small capacity turbo-petrols - personally I would buy anything all-new until it's been out 10 years and it becomes clear how good, or not, reliability is.
Yes, someone needs to go first - but never me!
Edited by RT on 20/07/2017 at 10:38
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There is a general concern about the longevity of any turbo-petrol as it develops so much more power/litre and torque/litre - it will depend, obviously, on how well the designers have done the internal parts but that is a harder task as the "footprint" of a turbo-petrol is so much smaller than a non-turbo-petrol of similar power/torque and things like bearings can't be increased in size to cope with the extra stresses.
Those concerns are the same across all brands that use small capacity turbo-petrols - personally I would buy anything all-new until it's been out 10 years and it becomes clear how good, or not, reliability is.
Yes, someone needs to go first - but never me!
Materials are better these days, manufacturing techniques are better these days, olis are better these days and turbo technology is way different to waht it was 20 or more years ago.
Personally I do not think 150 PS from a 1.4 litre is highly stressed. Plenty of engines out there with a much greater output per litre.
Forget the 1960's things have moved on.
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There is a general concern about the longevity of any turbo-petrol as it develops so much more power/litre and torque/litre - it will depend, obviously, on how well the designers have done the internal parts but that is a harder task as the "footprint" of a turbo-petrol is so much smaller than a non-turbo-petrol of similar power/torque and things like bearings can't be increased in size to cope with the extra stresses.
Those concerns are the same across all brands that use small capacity turbo-petrols - personally I would buy anything all-new until it's been out 10 years and it becomes clear how good, or not, reliability is.
Yes, someone needs to go first - but never me!
Materials are better these days, manufacturing techniques are better these days, olis are better these days and turbo technology is way different to waht it was 20 or more years ago.
Personally I do not think 150 PS from a 1.4 litre is highly stressed. Plenty of engines out there with a much greater output per litre.
Forget the 1960's things have moved on.
You may be right - but we've all heard the BS PR from car makers before - time will tell, nothing else.
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It seems to me that this argument is essentially about what's meant by 'highly-stressed'.
I used to think that small, high-performance engines were naturally highly-stressed - remembering an MG 1300 I had in the 1970s whose top gear (fourth) was, in an effort to be sporty, much too low, and the car was screaming along at 4000 rpm at 70 mph. But engines like the VAG TSI don't need lots of right foot to achieve brisk progress, and certainly SWMBO's A1, although lively and fun to drive, never sounds stressed.
But I am no mechanic, and an engineer will probably be along to tell me that I've misunderstood what highly-stressed means.
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In general terms, it's not that difficult to specify/design an engine that'll cope with extreme power/torque outputs - but that makes them (very) expensive to build - so car makers reduce specifications down to a point that gives low cost and acceptable life.
Rpm doesn't necessarily stress engines - most Japanese petrols are very happy up at high rpm but then they're designed to do so.
In the olden days, when I was a yoof, average engine life could be measured as they all needed rebuilding relatively frequently - so easy to see which would rarely get to 50,000 and those that would do 100,000 - but now, engine life is generally so high no-one bothers rebuilding engines, they just scrap the car!
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It seems to me that this argument is essentially about what's meant by 'highly-stressed'.
I used to think that small, high-performance engines were naturally highly-stressed - remembering an MG 1300 I had in the 1970s whose top gear (fourth) was, in an effort to be sporty, much too low, and the car was screaming along at 4000 rpm at 70 mph. But engines like the VAG TSI don't need lots of right foot to achieve brisk progress, and certainly SWMBO's A1, although lively and fun to drive, never sounds stressed.
But I am no mechanic, and an engineer will probably be along to tell me that I've misunderstood what highly-stressed means.
That is absolutely spot on Avant. The fact that a big, heavy car like the 1.4 TSi 150 PS Superb can drive at the legal limit with virtually no throttle on a long holiday trip for 8 hours and average just over 50 mpg shows how highly stressed it really is.
Had a Hillman Avenger in 1977. Dad bought it new in 1975 so I knew its history. It was the 1.6 GL and at an indicated 70 mph on the motorway it was doing 4400 rpm and did about 30 mpg at best, in comparison at a true 70 mph the Superb is doing 2300 rpm. But despite revving its nuts off all the time and using rubbish 1970's oil (lots of it) the car lived with the chap that bought it off me until 1990 and for most of that time it towed a caravan.
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We have a lot in common! I have a Superb 1.4 and I used to have an Avenger in the early 70's. The car was OK as I remember.
RE the stressed discussion. I regularly drive to Germany and have done for many years. If there is anywhere that engine would be stressed, it would be there. In fact, any engine would be stressed there. The German driving style is to accelerate hard until the desired speed is reached. The style also seems to include driving small engined cars absolutely flat out on the autobahns. I can remember in the past being overtaken by Renault 4's whilst I was doing 85 mph and the Renault's supposed top speed was about 75. Yes, it was downhill slightly.
Now there must be a fair proportion of VAG 1.4 TSI's in Golfs and the like in Germany and you can watch them wizz by you at 120 mph at least :-). With that in mind, I would expect there to be more stressed failures in Germany as a result if it was a problem. I have not read about any problem.
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There is a general concern about the longevity of any turbo-petrol as it develops so much more power/litre and torque/litre - it will depend, obviously, on how well the designers have done the internal parts but that is a harder task as the "footprint" of a turbo-petrol is so much smaller than a non-turbo-petrol of similar power/torque and things like bearings can't be increased in size to cope with the extra stresses.
Those concerns are the same across all brands that use small capacity turbo-petrols - personally I would buy anything all-new until it's been out 10 years and it becomes clear how good, or not, reliability is.
Yes, someone needs to go first - but never me!
Materials are better these days, manufacturing techniques are better these days, olis are better these days and turbo technology is way different to waht it was 20 or more years ago.
Personally I do not think 150 PS from a 1.4 litre is highly stressed. Plenty of engines out there with a much greater output per litre.
Forget the 1960's things have moved on.
Not so sure about that one!. In many areas of the Automotive industry, Accountants are dictating Purchasing Professionals, and Tree Huggers are rapidly replacing Engineers in R&D departments.
I remember the first three diesel cars I had, a Xantia, Vauxhall Omega and Vectra 2.0Di all of them were sold with well over 300K miles on the Clock, and the Xantia had 545k and all were still running well on their original Turbo's, Injectors etc, quite remarkable by todays standards, when your DPF will probably give up the ghost or need a clean at 40k miles, the EGR will go at about 80k, and no doubt you will need a new set of expensive piezo injectors at 100k. Oh and let's not forget the £1000+ needed to replace the DPF when it reaches the end of its service life at around 100k - 120k.
Its the same with Automatics, a work colleague has had expensive DSG issues on a VW, a Friend has had similar issues with an Audi S-Tronic, costing £7k, that same Friend when we left school inherited his parent's 1984 Triumph Acclaim Auto which covered 200k miles without missing a beat with either the engine or gearbox.
So I wouldn't be too quick to put new cars into the ring with old cars in the reliability stakes just yet, whether petrol or diesel. Currently they are trying to screw more and more power out of smaller and smaller engines, whilst adding a whole new range of both Engine & complex Fuel and Emissions Management as well ADAS safety features, any corners cut on either internal engine components or Electronic Components, no doubt will only become apparent over the years, but I suspect *IF* they do happen, non will be exactly cheap to even fault find, let alone replace.
I don't imagine Petrol engines will be too reliable for much longer either, in the next year or so Particulate Filters (Traps) will be mandatory fit for those too, no doubt bringing exactly the same issues to petrol cars as plague the diesel cars of today, in relation to EGR's, Swirl Flaps and the Petrol PF not to mention the cost of whatever synthetic fluid they chose to have squirting into the filter, and the dosing control equipment to do it.
Like I said above, it never bodes well when Tree Huggers, start replacing Engineers as designers, and that aspect is now rapidly finding its way into Petrol Designs, just as it did in Diesel design over ten years ago!.
Edited by Chris James on 29/07/2017 at 13:00
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